This is the thread where I try and summarise Cerebus

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does anyone know what dave sim's relationship with psychedelic drugs is/was?

Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Thursday, 19 January 2006 05:16 (fifteen years ago) link

also, douglas, if you can send me a pdf of your article i'd be grateful. i've been corresponding with my grandfather about comics as art (as he is someone who remembers them as kids today regard cartoons.) i'd like to forward it to him; i remember reading it at the barnes & noble where I worked when that issue came out and I was like "oh, cerebus, how tempted I am to go buy the next volume of you..." but then whenever I would hold the trades in my hand at forbidden planet it was just like "$25??? are youfukin kidding???!" i dunno..that's really not that much money, i guess. but it's almost always in conjunction with like another $10-$15 worth of comics. fuckinay.

Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Thursday, 19 January 2006 05:43 (fifteen years ago) link

Sim liked acid when he was in his early 20s, stopped using after a bad trip that led to his wife and mother having him sectioned (he now thinks that this was because he was speaking THE TRUTH and they couldn't handle it, but happily agrees with the hospital psychiatrist's diagnosis of him as schizophrenic ["borderline schizophrenic" at the time, but he assumes that the condition didn't lessen afterwards, as he never did anything about it]). Had a coke/party lifestyle in the '80s, because it was the '80s. Smoked weed from sun-up to sundown from his teens to the '90s, when he started periodically attempting to give up, resulting in him cutting down drastically. Doesn't even drink alcohol in the 21st century.

It's definitely worth checking out Douglas' article in the original, because you get a Charles Burns Cerebus on the cover and a Tony Millionaire spot illo with the article! That said, I wouldn't mind the PDF too, 'cos I didn't want to pay $24 for an 80-page magazine and read it in a bookshop...

kit brash (kit brash), Thursday, 19 January 2006 07:24 (fifteen years ago) link

(and so I read it in...)

kit brash (kit brash), Thursday, 19 January 2006 09:50 (fifteen years ago) link

Douglas, that's a truly excellent article - it's helped me sort out my own rather muddled feelings about the series.

I'd love someone to write a book-length analysis of Cerebus one day, but I wouldn't envy the fucker.

chap who would dare to no longer work for the man (chap), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:03 (fifteen years ago) link

i hope they bill it as the only correct interperatation that has ever been made

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:21 (fifteen years ago) link

Arrghh, my appalling spelling comes back to haunt me.

chap who would dare to no longer work for the man (chap), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:42 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh pooh, that's not a real email. My normal one is, er, paulisaacs at gmail, if anyone would like to e-mail me! (Much appreciated. I usually buy the Beleiever but they don't sell it in the UK!)

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:16 (fifteen years ago) link

seven months pass...
Has anyone else read this 60,000 word monster yet?

http://briancotts.tripod.com/cottsweb/thirty/thirtyep73w.html

It's rather solipsistic and repetetive, but I don't know how one could write about Cerebus in any depth without this being the case. Anyway, I found it interesting.

chap who would dare to start Raaatpackin (chap), Saturday, 26 August 2006 01:28 (fourteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
HI DERE

Can someone do me a favour and point me to a good - ideally fairly small (like 200-250 pixels max either way) pic of Prince Mick and Prince Keef from Cerebus - my copies of Church and State are in France so I can't scan it. I need it to illustrate a blog post tomorrow (attentive FT readers will be able to work out which).

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 19:02 (fourteen years ago) link

my copies of Church and State are in France

How chi-chi!

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 19:13 (fourteen years ago) link

http://www.cereb.us/wiki/images/a/a6/Keef.jpg

Richard Jones (scarne), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 08:00 (fourteen years ago) link

EXCELLENT. Thankyou.

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 08:13 (fourteen years ago) link

three years pass...

I have read huge chunks of this but have some gaps (haven't read anything after Rick's Story, for ex.) I have two random questions:

1) does Astoria ever appear again post-Minds? At the end of the four-way dialogue between Suenteus Po, Cerebus, Cirin, and herself, does she just leave and exit the narrative altogether?
2) when Cerebus returns to Estarcion after Minds, how come the Cirinists don't just kill him. Given how much trouble Cerebus caused her, I don't get why Cirin would just let him live out his days.

maybe I should just read Minds...

hoth as fuck (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 12 November 2009 18:30 (eleven years ago) link

i think the answer to 2) is that she's terrified of him.

because she looks awesome, like in the face (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 12 November 2009 18:36 (eleven years ago) link

1) Astoria's last appearance is in Reads, except for in hallucinations and possibly flashbacks.

You should check out Latter Days, the first two thirds are surprisingly good fun for late period Cerebus, and you don't really have to have read the generally interminable stuff between it and guys to understand it. The last third of the book is fucking batshit and really boring, natch.

I am flesh and blood. You are software and circuitry. (chap), Thursday, 12 November 2009 22:46 (eleven years ago) link

good to know... so far I've avoided Reads and I'm conflicted about powering through the entire series, even though I seem to return to the ones I like the most (High Society/Church & State/Guys/Rick's Story) on a regular basis (like, once every couple years). this series is really kinda a tragedy, could've been so much bigger/better...

the only guy in a feminism lit class called The Women Quest (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 13 November 2009 20:36 (eleven years ago) link

btw, I watched about 45 minutes of Cerebus TV yesterday (I don't know how much content he has up...it runs in a continuous loop), and my only reaction is o_O

WmC, Friday, 13 November 2009 20:40 (eleven years ago) link

Cerebus TV?

The Real Dirty Vicar, Tuesday, 17 November 2009 13:12 (eleven years ago) link

^ The Real Dirty Tuomas

zing touch me I'm (sic), Tuesday, 17 November 2009 13:20 (eleven years ago) link

DV, Cerebus TV is some new thing of Sim's, with a little involvement from Jim Steranko I believe. It's basically a rambling video fanzine -- segments include him talking about the development of a piece of art he donated to a charity auction (while he holds a camcorder on the art and bits of photo reference he used, trying to get it to focus), phone conversations between him and Todd Macfarlane about them agreeing to allow each other to reprint Spawn #10 (writting by Sim, featuring Cerebus), a phone conversation/interview with Russ Heath, a video love letter to a bookstore in his hometown, an announcement that he won't offer Cerebus Archives through Diamond Distribution because it didn't meet their minimum order numbers (even though they offered to bend the rules for him, because he's a man of principle etc etc). There are a couple of commercials for local comic shops in between segments; he seems to be hoping to at least break even selling ads, if not make huge profits.

WmC, Wednesday, 18 November 2009 04:01 (eleven years ago) link

Mmmm.

I wish I could somehow blend with Tuomas.

The Real Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 25 November 2009 13:37 (eleven years ago) link

Man, this new comic he made of pinup girls with him rambling is just woof.

ilx mooncup (forksclovetofu), Monday, 30 November 2009 01:10 (eleven years ago) link

I think he made another one simultaneously that was pictures of Holocaust victims with him rambling.

Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Monday, 30 November 2009 01:27 (eleven years ago) link

Yeah, both those are manic and difficult to even leaf through.

ilx mooncup (forksclovetofu), Monday, 30 November 2009 17:12 (eleven years ago) link

haha waht?!

Gimme That Christian Side-hug, that Christian Side-hug (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 30 November 2009 20:54 (eleven years ago) link

I like the comics-history portions of Glamourpuss, but the fashion-model parts are alternately creepy and boring.

Bob Saget's "Night Moves": C or D (WmC), Monday, 30 November 2009 22:53 (eleven years ago) link

even the comics history parts are a chore to read, as the greatest, most creative and artful hand-letterer of all time has been replaced by a clod-handed typist who fills square boxes with left-justified text.

BACH STARKER (sic), Tuesday, 1 December 2009 01:01 (eleven years ago) link

I find the comics-history parts very interesting in their crackpot sort of way. Those sections of the first three issues can be read at http://www.cerebusfangirl.com/uploads/glamourpuss/glamourpusshistoricalcommentary.pdf , by the way...

"Judenhass," on the other hand, really is a trainwreck--I laid into it at some length at http://www.tabletmag.com/arts-and-culture/books/995/reality-check/ .

Douglas, Tuesday, 1 December 2009 05:33 (eleven years ago) link

thank you for linking to that glamourpuss material, which i'd not read before - the sequence where he analyses the photo of caniff and raymond is insane! i mean, im glad that ppl like raymond and williamson and prentice are still being talked abt, in any context, but because sim so plainly doesn't have the brush skills to match the ppl he's 'reproducing', if you have any kind of familiarity at all with the originals the glamourpuss stuff just comes across as a bad cover version, and it doesn't seem to playing to sim's strengths at all - humour, satire, caricature, etc.

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 1 December 2009 15:45 (eleven years ago) link

Yeah, I got about two pages into that before deciding it was a big waste of time. Like Ward says, he's an extremely talented artist, but his strengths are characterisation and action, not pretty pictures.

Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Tuesday, 1 December 2009 17:46 (eleven years ago) link

Also the subject matter is just obtusely niche. I'm a comics fan, and I'm not particularly interested.

Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Tuesday, 1 December 2009 17:48 (eleven years ago) link

christ what a complete waste of time and energy

strange asses outside liquor stores (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 2 December 2009 17:40 (eleven years ago) link

wow terrible

Nhex, Wednesday, 2 December 2009 20:36 (eleven years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Starting in the late '90s, Dave's writing increasingly assumes that the reader shares his particular political/religious views, which he claims are unique. For obvious reasons, this causes much of his later humor to fall flat.

Because the Internet is a worldwide medium, in the last few years he has found a handful of people to confirm even his most outrageous ideas.

I've learned that the work is best appreciated at a distance.

stanleylieber, Friday, 18 December 2009 23:22 (eleven years ago) link

Pretty much. There are still scattered moments of astounding perceptiveness and beauty even in his full-on batshit phase though, which is what is so frustrating.

Communi-Bear Silo State (chap), Saturday, 19 December 2009 00:35 (eleven years ago) link

Sure, agreed. As a whole, it's still my favorite work in the medium.

stanleylieber, Saturday, 19 December 2009 17:11 (eleven years ago) link

one month passes...

the other day I told my daughter she was going to learn an important lesson, that you could get what you want and still not be very happy. unfortunately, this turned out to be true.

Wrinkles, I'll see you on the other side (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 12 February 2010 18:47 (eleven years ago) link

wonderful!

Nhex, Tuesday, 16 February 2010 15:59 (eleven years ago) link

five months pass...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/jul/18/comics-grow-up-graphic-novels-harvey-pekar

Is this the most mainstream press attention Cerebus has ever got?

rhythm fixated member (chap), Monday, 19 July 2010 16:59 (ten years ago) link

pretty sure it's had a two-sentence mention 9 pars down on a blog before

oh sh!t a ¯\⎝⏠___⏠⎠/¯ (sic), Monday, 19 July 2010 23:38 (ten years ago) link

Tom Spurgeon pretty nails it on the Comics Reporter:

These articles are dumb when comics bloggers who barely have two adjectives to rub together write them and they're dumb when writers for the Guardian with a full armory of verbiage at their disposal write them. Despite the fact that a number of examples in his own article repeatedly counter the notion that there's a narrowing of tone or theme in non-mainstream US comic books -- it made me smile to see Cerebus sneak in there -- there's all sorts of convenient examples out there of the range of alt-comics that get passed over that I think it's very fair for him to know about. While I wouldn't expect the writer to be familiar with publishing houses like PictureBox and AdHouse, it's worth noting that his primary examples come from cartoonists associated with Drawn and Quarterly and the big hit for D+Q before its big hit with Dan Clowes' Wilson was Lynda Barry's exuberant and entirely cheerful What It Is. Fantagraphics' big release of the moment is from Jim Woodring, whose work doesn't have much in common at all with Adrian Tomine. I personally think Seth's George Sprott exists in a land far, far away from what, say, Jordan Crane is doing in Uptight, but if you don't, that doesn't mean that in making your point you should get to drop the comics that provided a cleaner break with the "mopey" stereotype.

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 20 July 2010 05:21 (ten years ago) link

The article was actually in the print copy of The Guardian.

rhythm fixated member (chap), Tuesday, 20 July 2010 06:37 (ten years ago) link

I know for sure it's had a two-line mention in a major metro "Comics are for grown-ups?!" filler with up-page art pull before ;)

oh sh!t a ¯\⎝⏠___⏠⎠/¯ (sic), Tuesday, 20 July 2010 07:49 (ten years ago) link

I think that's a decent enough bit of blog filler, and the Todd Solondz line is pretty good.

The argument is pretty old hat though. Apparently SL is a huge comic nerd (according to a friend who knows him), I'm sure he must have heard of Joann Sfar or Tezuka or whatever. They're quite easy to buy in the UK, too.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 21 July 2010 10:08 (ten years ago) link

Posting here to get rid of the phantom bookmark.

But i do have something to say about the article too: I kinda hate in when someone talks about "comics" in general, when he really means "American comics, maybe Canadian and British ones too". Even if the scope of "serious" American comics may see narrow, that isn't the case with comics worldwide, which should be obvious by just reading the non-Anglo stuff that's been translated to English.

Tuomas, Monday, 26 July 2010 10:55 (ten years ago) link

which is kinda difficult in America tbh, depending on what yr talking about. sure we can get Tintin and Asterix or Milo Minara books, but try finding a copy of Arzach for example. tons of Manga never make it to English, etc.

Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 July 2010 15:53 (ten years ago) link

The Guardian is not in America tbh

Has admitted to being awesome in order to have sex (sic), Monday, 26 July 2010 23:31 (ten years ago) link

hey Tuomas brought up the America angle, not me

Moshy Star (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 26 July 2010 23:54 (ten years ago) link

I'm very happy for you to carry on reading and summarising it for us, TBH.

chap, Saturday, 6 February 2021 15:46 (three months ago) link

two weeks pass...

Dave believes that the duration of his seven-year relationship with a 14-year-old girl, beginning when he was about 29, is "metaphysically pertinent" now that he's reading Claremont and Sienkiewicz' New Mutants, because he read on S'ym's wikipedia that

During Illyana's seven years in Limbo, Belasco takes her as his heir and apprentice. She ultimately defeats him, becoming Limbo's new ruler, and S'ym's master, before returning to the X-Men. S'ym challenges Illyana's newfound status as Limbo's ruler. Illyana defeats S'ym, leaving S'ym to agree to serve Illyana whenever she visits Limbo.[

Because the seven years represent a limbo period where the metaphysical forces of feminism were trying to neutralise Sim's mind by placing him under female control before he could reveal the truth about their voidly agenda in his four-year Mothers & Daughters graphic novel, that followed the end of the relationship.

The fan who has sent the comics to Dave to read thinks that the "Colossus' kid sister" character became one-dimensional and her development went "off the rails;" Sim infers that this is because Claremont is a feminist and tried to frame the plot positively in that direction.


The personality "Jack Wayne" manifested by the character Legion in New Mutants #27 also ties in to Dave: he infers that the character is named for Jack Kennedy (who was the most successful playboy alive in 1963 because Marilyn Monroe fucked him, which also proves he was as attractive as a human male could be at that time) and Bruce Wayne, and Dave was perceived as a playboy-like-figure within the comics field in the 1980s because he fucked so much. Proof that this personality is metaphysically connected to Dave? "My Inner Jack Kennedy would wane," fourteen (7 + 7) years later when he gave up sex and masturbation .

In the 1980s, Sim would write angrily about his friend and mentor Gene Day's death after Day's travelling to NYC to deliver a job to Marvel, being given a rush job to draw in the office, and left to sleep in an unheated Manhattan office lobby in winter, catching (iirc) a pneumonia that Sim believed weakened his health leading to him dropping dead months later.

Now, seeing that the character S'ym first appeared in August 1982 (probably May, actually, but Dave is evidently forgetting how cover dates work), Day died in September, and Dave & Deni Sim went on their first US tour in October/November, Dave "infers" that by leaving his wife and becoming a fornicator in 1983, he "forced" God or the universe or something to send him a message by killing his only friend.


Lest anyone think that Sim is somehow reaching, or exhibiting some kind of weird narcissism by going beyond the S'ym character to read metaphysical connections between his own life and other characters in the comic: another one of Legion's manifested personalities is called Cyndi. And Dave has been told that his parents would have named him Cindy if he'd been a girl. And Claremont writes Cyndi saying "

stilt in the wings (sic), Sunday, 21 February 2021 05:38 (two months ago) link

..."They say they love you. But when it's their life and yours, they'll dump you every time." And that is the sort of thing that Dave's parents might have said to him, or vice versa, when they still spoke! AND he did dump his parents when they remained atheists after he invented, then converted to, his own religion! QED.

stilt in the wings (sic), Sunday, 21 February 2021 05:43 (two months ago) link

Dave found those details on the S'ym wikipedia because he phoned his research assistant and asked him to print out the page and bring it to the house.

He has since taken a break from reading the New Mutants comics from 1982 to watch the New Mutants film from 2017, released in 2020, and pausing to transcribe all the bits about religion. Sim had noticed it on two Worst Movies Of 2020 lists in Canada, despite it containing "LGBTQ propaganda," so he concludes that this is a result of the "sharp shift in Trump-era Identity Politics". (He thinks it's bad too, but not because it happens to be a bad movie. It's because every single film made today is just filler between CGI effects - Dave can tell this, unlike professional nationally-published film critics, presumably because he watches one movie every five years and thus knows better.)

He is noting his reactions by watching fifteen minutes every two days, typing up two pages of analysis addressed to the fan that asked him what he thinks of the comic, and faxing these to his blogspot dude.

stilt in the wings (sic), Sunday, 21 February 2021 10:49 (two months ago) link

starting to think there may be reason to be concerned about dave sim’s mental well-being tbh

you are like a scampicane, there's calm in your fries (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 21 February 2021 13:05 (two months ago) link

"dave sic" press submit

mark s, Sunday, 21 February 2021 13:58 (two months ago) link

Sim had a sexual relationship with a 14 year old girl when he was 29? Or am I reading that wrong.

*phones research assistant*

covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Sunday, 21 February 2021 15:37 (two months ago) link

*checks voicemail*

They only met a few times in those seven years, rarely corresponded, didn't have sex until a few days before her 21st birthday, and have not seen each other since three months after her 22nd. Sim regards the association as unequivocally morally wrong, legally criminal, and the handful of days they spent in each others' company as the only times he has ever experienced happiness in his life.

stilt in the wings (sic), Sunday, 21 February 2021 20:45 (two months ago) link

I checked back and Dave has faxed another 18 pages of daily commentary on the New Mutants movie in the last week

grab bag cum trash bag (sic), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 11:39 (two months ago) link

I really need a fax machine

Canon in Deez (silby), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 15:01 (two months ago) link

it's the internet of paper

G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 22:48 (two months ago) link

Dave believes that the concept of teenagers making out in a cemetery is something that The New Mutants movie invented as gay propaganda to undermine religion, and not something that teenagers have been doing since approx. 12 hours after cemeteries were invented.

https://i.imgur.com/qFe8s13.jpg



Dave believes that Marvel Movies, which he has not seen, developed a recognisable template, that this film, not made by Marvel Studios, deviates from. He also believes that 20th Century Fox delayed its release five times because of poor audience reaction when it was released three years later.

https://i.imgur.com/Od875KL.jpg

Also, he thinks it's a bad movie because it's bad, but the audience thought it was bad because they are too dumb to appreciate that it is interesting and creative.

Also, a global pandemic forcing cinemas closed in most of the planet, and nearly all of North America, had no impact on the box office in 2020.




Dave Sim, who has been self-employed since 1977, is very familiar with HR Departments, and how feminists infiltrating the otherwise sensible institution of HR departments created the COVID hoax.

https://i.imgur.com/AfI3dyq.jpg



If any span of time between two events in Dave Sim's life can be measured between two events in other people's lives, or in world events, then it means that the Sim span of time influenced or outright controlled the other events.

https://i.imgur.com/zgcpcRX.jpg

Any genuinely open-minded person reading Sim's anti-feminist essay from 1994 will conclude that this time-span theory is correct. If they don't? QED, they are not genuinely open-minded.


McCarthyism was bad because he made people paranoid about communists in the US State Department, but the US State Department really was and is permeated with communists, and that's bad.

https://i.imgur.com/hMF0LTS.jpg


God is prolonging the COVID-19 pandemic because people have not learnt enough from their suffering so far, and still want to have sex. New Zealand's feminist and socialist Prime Minister, whose partner stays home to raise their child, absolutely did not halt the pandemic, and everyone in New Zealand died a year ago.

https://i.imgur.com/tw3aiWK.jpg

grab bag cum trash bag (sic), Thursday, 4 March 2021 00:04 (two months ago) link

you could also not pay attention to this drivel though

G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 4 March 2021 00:09 (two months ago) link

I think you're missing that it has been 26 years and three months since Cerebus #191 came out, including a preview of Jason Lutes' Jar Of Fools. Metaphysics thus dictate that we are all fools, and only by scrying these runes do we have any hope of escaping the jar. Thus, until my free will can affect my actions, I am bound to continue.

grab bag cum trash bag (sic), Thursday, 4 March 2021 00:27 (two months ago) link

better you than me man; it seems somewhere between a waste of your time and a sort of unhealthy interest in a clearly damaged man from out here

G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 4 March 2021 02:17 (two months ago) link

and i say that as a marked obsessive with clearly unhealthy interests, so i know whereof i speak!

G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 4 March 2021 02:18 (two months ago) link

If any span of time between two events in Dave Sim's life can be measured between two events in other people's lives, or in world events, then it means that the Sim span of time influenced or outright controlled the other events.

I'm just going to speak generally here but I've typically found that when these lines are crossed (or inverted perhaps?) there's an effect on yourself that's kind of like a psychic second law of thermodynamics in that you don't get out without losing a little bit of yourself.

*removes bookmark from thread*

Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 4 March 2021 03:35 (two months ago) link

four weeks pass...

Pretty glad now I didn't drop $$$ on SDoAR.

Well *I* know who he is (aldo), Thursday, 1 April 2021 07:51 (one month ago) link


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