Sundar - You've stopped listening to rock music ? I don't get that impression from most of what you've been posting here.
― Patrick, Friday, 4 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
well, obviously not altogether. (last album listened to: cinderella - _long cold winter_). i have pretty much stopped trying to like or listen to any current rock music, though. the only current pop-related stuff that interests me now is hip-hop and electronic. i'm sure it's just temporary though -- once rock starts treating me better, i'll speak to it again.
no, actually, "against health and efficiency" never gets i-get-more-pussy-than-you at all. sr was quite sympathetic to indie culture at that point. it does still have problematic qualities. the idea that romanticism is oppositional is somewhat dubious. like ilm, he never really defines what he means by "indie," leaving it to include everything from pop will eat itself to new york guitar noise to the smiths to all the british 80s bands i've never heard of that get c-o-d'd here. but nobody's perfect and it's an important work all the same. like _the sex revolts_.
― sundar subramanian, Friday, 4 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
It's a fabulous article of its time. Stevie T used to herald it to me on a regular basis, discussing its arguments and virtues, long before I actually dug up the book. When I did, I was so excited that I made about 10 copies for people I knew. If you still want one, Nick, I've probably still got one.
So if you type in, say, 'Alasdair Cook' on google, what happens?
― the pinefox, Saturday, 5 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
who the fuck is this limey simon reynolds anyway? never has he spoke of sam the sham or kiss, as far as I can tell. never has he wrestled with another human being in the dirt. never has he listened to both Dust albums. never has he said ONE THING THAT IS FUNNY. he is a jerk, like most limey critics. every CREEM writer worth his salt knows that music writers from ENGLAND ARE THE ABSOLUTE WORST.... and they are the very reason we have all had to endure the likes of Oasis and Radiohead and, heaven help us, RAVES!! Simon Reynolds is nothing, I mean nothing: think of this--once i interviewed Sky Saxon who was undergoing a blood transfusion in Hawaii and he was so feeble he could barely talk on the phone and he talked about how shriveled his cock was and how he hoped one day that shriveled cock would become hard again so that he could once again perform "Mr. Farmer" with the fervor in which it was intended: well, Mr. Simon Reynolds IS NOT EVEN WORTH THAT SHRIVELED COCK OF SKY SAXON... he knows nothing of music but pretends he knows nothing of rock 'n' roll ranting, just that awful throbbing rave ecstasy crapola... & what's more, he's a limey who thinks he's smart (the worst kind)... THERE WAS A GOOD SIMON ONCE: SIMON FRITH (smart guy, good writer)--whatever happened to him, how come he's not on this website? PLEASE PLEASE do not waste our time by having to read anymore snotty SIMON REYNOLDS idiotic spouting...he has committed the ultimate offense: HE IS NOT FUNNY AND HE DOES NOT ROCK!
― Robot A. Hull, Tuesday, 22 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I just like the word "gobshite." Gotta think of a way to include it in my vocabulary somehow.
― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Tuesday, 22 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
from a limey.
― scott n., Wednesday, 27 November 2002 14:40 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nickalicious, Wednesday, 27 November 2002 16:32 (twenty-one years ago) link
All that and Sky Saxon's shrivelled cock.
― tigerclawskank, Wednesday, 27 November 2002 17:19 (twenty-one years ago) link
― unknown or illegal user (doorag), Wednesday, 27 November 2002 18:46 (twenty-one years ago) link
― scott n. (scott n.), Wednesday, 27 November 2002 20:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 14 March 2003 16:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dadaismus, Friday, 14 March 2003 16:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
― felicity (felicity), Friday, 14 March 2003 16:22 (twenty-one years ago) link
― trollwatchers, Friday, 14 March 2003 16:24 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 16:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 14 March 2003 16:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 16:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gareth waiting for mary to get out the damn shower (Mary), Friday, 14 March 2003 18:11 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 14 March 2003 18:16 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 14 March 2003 19:19 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 14 March 2003 19:33 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 14 March 2003 19:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
What I've read of "Against Health and Efficiency" is quite fascinating re: the childlike (not childish) air of indie-pop, the ethereality, the focus on memories and childhood and innocence lost... I do agree with SR that a drive for an "Edenic state of purity" (his words? it's a cliche anyway) is the real motive behind indie-pop... hence the phenomenon of kindercore and, if you look at mainstream emo music as being heavily influenced by indie-pop (and I do, there's cross-fertilization all over the place) you see it in things like chris carabba singing about "making out" at 30+ years old. This is not to say that such things are bad; it's just interesting to see an unofficial hypothesis of mine in print as an academic article, and done back in the mid-80s no less. Sort of reinforces my current opinions, gives me a wee bit of confidence.
What do you all think about that article?
― justin s., Monday, 12 May 2003 14:01 (twenty years ago) link
Funny... had a conversation with a friend of mine over the interweb about this very subject... my eventual resolution as to the asexuality/coy adolescent sexual perspective is just kinda germane to this style of music, surmised in my idea that it just wouldn't sound right if pasty emo-rockers began to sing about "getting their freak on"...
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 12 May 2003 14:06 (twenty years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 12 May 2003 14:49 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 12 May 2003 15:00 (twenty years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 May 2003 15:01 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 12 May 2003 15:03 (twenty years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 May 2003 15:09 (twenty years ago) link
― the pinefox, Monday, 12 May 2003 15:09 (twenty years ago) link
― justin s., Monday, 12 May 2003 21:49 (twenty years ago) link
― Evan (Evan), Monday, 12 May 2003 21:55 (twenty years ago) link
― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Monday, 12 May 2003 21:57 (twenty years ago) link
― justin s., Monday, 12 May 2003 21:58 (twenty years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 May 2003 21:59 (twenty years ago) link
― justin s., Monday, 12 May 2003 21:59 (twenty years ago) link
justin s, I have an unproven theory that the accuracy with which one may define a genre has an inverse proportion to its relevancy. It sounds like the rap slang jess talks about in Dismemberment Plan songs serves to strengthen the genre boundaries in place rather than complicate them, at least the way he describes it. Not really an "Olé" as Frank might say. Which is why, at least on this front, I like Limp Bizkit more; when they drop slang it's not "realer" but it doesn't throw up a wall either, or ironically call attention to itself, it does something else.
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 12 May 2003 22:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave M. (rotten03), Monday, 12 May 2003 23:12 (twenty years ago) link
― justin s., Tuesday, 13 May 2003 05:48 (twenty years ago) link
it's not about keeping people down, it's just fucking obvious - it would be ridiculous for morrissey to start making cars and girls records like ludacris, and it's not out of order to say that he should stick to repression and bicycles... people have their own metiers and it's ok to push the boundaries, but completely overstepping them is never rarely too clever also the way in which sex is discussed usually corresponds to the overall aesthetic of the music in question, that's all i was saying... i mean for crying out loud how crapulent would it sound if chan marshall started to spit lil kim-style lyrics? both are pretty good when being themselves, but this kind of fusion would be pointless, unconvincing and daft...
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 10:14 (twenty years ago) link
― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 10:16 (twenty years ago) link
Article Response: Indie Kids
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 02:48 (twenty years ago) link
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, 13 May 2006 01:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Saturday, 13 May 2006 01:28 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 13 May 2006 01:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 13 May 2006 01:37 (seventeen years ago) link
Snrub, are you being funny. Google is your friend--you'll find Simon's latest book and his blog and maybe some articles for magazines.
― curmudgeon (DC Steve), Saturday, 13 May 2006 01:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― QuantumNoise (Justin Farrar), Saturday, 13 May 2006 01:51 (seventeen years ago) link
― Space Is the Place (Space Is the Place), Saturday, 13 May 2006 02:20 (seventeen years ago) link
"I also had to wonder again about where all these reactionaries actually are. Maybe I live in a rarified world, but I don't know anyone who thinks albums are intrinsically superior to singles. I'm not sure I've ever met a person who espouses that much-pilloried view about singers not having written the songs they sing being inauthentic and thereby lesser."
Yes Simon, you do in fact live in a rarified world. The attitudes you describe are still in full effect and believed by most consumers in a knee-jerk way. The reason people priviledge those things (or variations of those things) and treat those beliefs as natural is because they form the very basis of western values - i.e. rockism doesn't just come from the rise and study of popular music, it is a symptom of a larger cultural tendency. To think that rockism no longer exists in one form or another is a fantasy.
― i'm from hollywood, Saturday, 13 May 2006 04:39 (seventeen years ago) link
hip-hop on the guillotinebecause music like youmakes critics like Simon Reynolds feel so tiredwhen will you die? when will you die? when will you die?
― Cunga, Sunday, 29 November 2009 14:21 (fourteen years ago) link
2001-2004 now feel like a golden age for dance music. If anything house and techno is a bit uninspired now.
― Space Battle Rothko (Matt DC), Sunday, 29 November 2009 18:50 (fourteen years ago) link
<3333 "go out and eat ice cream" btw. adorable
― we be emi robin' (k3vin k.), Sunday, 29 November 2009 20:23 (fourteen years ago) link
Dance music in that period is a best-case scenario for a genre really. The end of one era - superclubs and big crossover live acts - coinciding with the growth of fantastically potent and fertile new sub-genres. Very much the death of one version of dance music but, in retrospect, for the best.
― Dorian (Dorianlynskey), Sunday, 29 November 2009 20:31 (fourteen years ago) link
If you told me 5 years ago that every hyped indie rock band in 2009 would sound like Ariel Pink, I would have said you were crazy
Sounds like paradise. Which bands are you talking about here?
― Kevin John Bozelka, Sunday, 29 November 2009 20:58 (fourteen years ago) link
that change in dance music was mostly the genre adjusting to the internet...prob a lucky time for a facelift
― I see what this is (Local Garda), Sunday, 29 November 2009 21:08 (fourteen years ago) link
this thread is hilarious, btw, i wish Whiney and Deej could get Weird Science computers to create living embodiments of their respective constant stubborn talking points so that they could go out and eat ice cream and play video games while Talking Points Whinebot and Talking Points Deejbot battle it out
― henry man see u (some dude), Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:43 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
what 'talking points' does whiney have? as far as i can tell hes consistently burt_stanton-ing w/ constantly misguided cultural mis-observation
― ice cr?m hand job (deej), Sunday, 29 November 2009 21:58 (fourteen years ago) link
well a lot of the time they are just deej^(-1)
― crazy farting throwback jersey (gbx), Sunday, 29 November 2009 22:08 (fourteen years ago) link
yo dog...thanks 4 dat shineblockas tip
trakk iz bangin'
― rizzx, Sunday, 29 November 2009 22:09 (fourteen years ago) link
none of your medical mumbo-jumbo dr., just give it to me straight
― ice cr?m hand job (deej), Sunday, 29 November 2009 22:10 (fourteen years ago) link
you have 3 months to live...until you are suggest banned
― we be emi robin' (k3vin k.), Sunday, 29 November 2009 22:10 (fourteen years ago) link
The lack of "narrative" or "big new important thing happening" is different from there not being any good rap music. Obviously there's plenty of good rap music out there, and obviously there's a lack of any big new important thing happening in rap. The latter is Simon's real beef, because his best writing about the BNITH in popular music. He says there's good shit, but no narrative. There's plenty to listen to, but not as much to read about and write about and think about, at least nothing substantially different from what's come before. This is why all the hip hop mags are dead/dying, and why no one pays anyone to write about hip hop. Unless you are SR or SFJ.
― Gavin, Monday, 30 November 2009 07:08 (fourteen years ago) link
i think things are happening but that its more difficult to tell exactly what those things are w/out the charts to orient yourself around -- it was easy to create a narrative when it was, like, "hmm these neptunes sure are popular."
― ice cr?m hand job (deej), Monday, 30 November 2009 09:58 (fourteen years ago) link
pretty sure hip hop mags being dead/dying has nothing to do w/ whether or not there are existing narratives
― ice cr?m hand job (deej), Monday, 30 November 2009 09:59 (fourteen years ago) link
the state of popular rap in 2009
― curmudgeon, Monday, 30 November 2009 14:37 (fourteen years ago) link
Funnily enought, the company behind Zero Books is a wacky new-age crystals'n'meditation outfit. But I do think the imprint is a Good Thing (despite having a few issues with the whole k-Punk archipelago). I'm looking forward to N Power's One-Dimensional Woman.― Stevie T, Monday, September 7, 2009 11:40 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark
― Stevie T, Monday, September 7, 2009 11:40 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark
crystals'n'meditation'n'outspoken-anti-semitism outfit now
― sarahel hath no fury (history mayne), Saturday, 6 August 2011 12:39 (twelve years ago) link
expand on that
― Gukbe, Saturday, 6 August 2011 16:48 (twelve years ago) link
publishing gilad atzmon
― sarahel hath no fury (history mayne), Saturday, 6 August 2011 17:44 (twelve years ago) link