I'm tired of a world without Sleater-Kinney

But the means by which they reach those authentic depictions of love and loss aren't so clear.

Well, but this is where I'm going with this: I think they're not as unclear as those of use who're fond of theory are prone to think. I wonder if the distance you speak of on earlier S/K records isn't somewhat a product of not having enough budget (=time to listen to mixes & re-think) rather than of embracing ambiguities, and I'm less convinced of the null value of authorial intention than I was...well, to shoot straight, than I was before I'd been the guy with an intention for 15 years or so.

Here we may approach a kind of uncrossable divide: for a performer who traffics, or comes to traffic, in personal/less-veiled/more-direct performances, the things that consequently occur between performer & audience may redefine the space in such a way that previously-embraced models lose some of their appeal. If this is true, I'm kind of a worthless debate partner here, because I know exactly when a lot of my thoughts about the relationship between performer & material & audience got a lot less clearly separable for me, and where some of the old tired "you can tell when somebody's really close to his material" tropes began to seem less hollow/phoned-in to me.

But since we respond to art differently than when we make it, maybe I'll cut her some slack.

but yeah unfortunately this is the other thing: what artists have to say about art is of quetstionable value: forest/trees etc.

From the use of shouted and/or interwined harmonies of The Hot Rock to Carrie's English accent in "Combat Rock" and Corin's Yoko Ono-ese in "Milkshake and Honey," this is a band that relished distance.

affecting accents automatically = "distance"? from louis armstrong's entirely half-valved solo in fletcher henderson's "shanghai shuffle" to arthur lee adopting a faux-english accent in love's "andmoreagain", to m.i.a's myriad vocal affectations, nothing could be further from the truth. if anything, such changes in approach reduce distance by (among other things) partially deflating the self-seriousness of a piece, giving the listener a knowing wink, while drawing them closer.

You said "automatically," I didn't.

M.I.A.'s "myriad" vocal affectations are precisely why she doesn't deserve a place here -- sometimes they add distance, sometimes they do what you say.

I have no problem with her indifference to Madonna

I do. That is totally rockist. next thing you'll be saying Mariah carey isn't the greatest singer in the history of music.

haha

wtf is going on on this thread

people havin a discussion branching out from an essay by a woman who used to play in Sleater-Kinney

any other questions

You guys are over my head now, with all the talk about motivations and artist p'sov. I admit that when I first read Carrie's article about Madonna, something inside me said "eew, I'd have expected better," but then I realized that anyone can dislike pretty much anything for whatever reason makes him or her comfortable and left it at that.

no thanks john that was a good summation. i have a feeling if i read the essay i'd get upset and start having bullshit arguments so i think i won't. sound ok?

it's not much of an essay, it's quite brief. The gist of it is Madonna = contrived.

i see

well duh

haha

Can anyone give me a good reason to like this band?

I thought we did!

One of the members saw the beastie boys booed off stage one time. True story.

xpost

brightscreamer please name one band you didn't like and then somebody told you "here's a reason to like them" and then you were like "oh ok well then I see, they are my favorite now"

That worked with me on The Velvet Underground. Someone said, "Listen to 'The Gift'" and it worked. That probably explains why I still like John Cale more than any other member, but at least I don't turn my nose up at any of the first four VU records anymore.

What's so impressive about them, though? They just seem so ordinary to me in every way other than their gender.

J0hn D. - Animal Collective.

i don't know that you could call them ordinary. a mean a lot of things but ORDINARY? i would say more abrasive and dissonant or something

For me, it's song structure (and especially guitar playing) choices they make. Lots of cool chord changes I wasn't expecting and then the melodies and harmonies that go over them. Also, Janet is a fierce drummer.

Like most bands, I only notice particular lyrics if they're really really good, and there are several S-K songs I'd say hit me on that front.

Really? You heard 'em, didn't like 'em, somebody said "here's a reason to like them," and boom, their music sounded pleasant to you? In that case, shoot, the guitars on s/k's The woods are 1) recorded beautifully 2) played fiercely 3) sound like the guitar on Wonderama's "Padre Pio (the Stigmatist)" might have sounded if it hadn't been recorded in a broom closet.

I mean I listen to an assload of fuckin guitar records and most of the beardo freakout shit that gets props isn't fit to stand near The Woods, and that's my word.

I agree. The guitar on that first track on the Woods is pretty fucking magic.

The Woods was really well-received, if i remember correctly. it was an exciting moment. i guess i feel like they're one u either love for the vox or hate for the vox

actually the one thing I hated about The Woods was the reception it got - lots of "at last, a serious album of serious rock instead of all this twaddle" (i.e., stuff non-different in tone from the article we started with here) which is just UGH. but yeah lots of that faded the first time I listened to it - I can't even imagine anybody who'd listened to it saying it sounded "ordinary," it was about 2x bigger than all the other dialed-back indie stuff around then

Give me a playlist with which to convince me of their greatness. Or just an album. I'll give it a listen.

yes i never got the run-of-the-mill-indie vibe from them at all

listen to The Woods, the last one, it's quite good. I mean you sound like you're gonna be goin into it with your arms folded ready to announce that everybody just likes it 'cause they're women, so I don't expect you'll get much out of it w/that kinda baggage, but it's a terrific record.

I'm probably in the minority (it's seemed that way for years anyway), but my favorite S-K album front-to-back is All Hands on the Bad One. Everything I ever wanted from them came together in one place for that record.

if there were ten indie bands whose riffs were as decent as s/k's indie rock would be like a totally awesome genre

that was always my favorite title (all hands).

john but what do you think of their vocals?

I'll give it a purchase and an open-minded listen, J0hn. Thanks for the recommendation.

it depends on who's singing. I am terrible at keeping track of who's who in bands but the indie vox, yeah, "ordinary" is a fair cop there - they sound like the genre standard. but the gigantic voice - the one in the lead-off track on the woods & in the song where she says "johnny get your gun" - that huge rich bellow - that just hits me in all the right spots, it's like the microphone is finally getting to open up a little. huge force of nature voice, that'n.

reasons to love S-K:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gYAitpi6Dhg

~50 seconds in - drum break before getting into my favorite Corin vocal ever
2:20 - guitar freak-the-fuck-out
2:50-3:10 - Carrie's solo
3:10-3:30 - Corin playing clean

The amped-up mix and "Entertain" soured The Woods for me.

The bete noir AND entry point to S-K is Corin Tucker. Frankly, I'd never heard anything like her voice before, and for a few months was a hindrance.

This Madonna discussion reminds me of one of the times I saw SK live, where Corin started talking in-between songs about how much she enjoyed the new Madonna single, "What it feels like for a girl". To this, Carrie responded, "I don't think Madonna needs us to help promote her music, Corin."

HA

From the use of shouted and/or interwined harmonies of The Hot Rock to Carrie's English accent in "Combat Rock" and Corin's Yoko Ono-ese in "Milkshake and Honey," this is a band that relished distance.

totally wrong

Yeah, I don't quite buy that either, although I get where Alfred is coming from with it. To me they were one of the most direct, raw bands of their era - the huge ugly complicatedness of love/loss/hate/etc came through with really affective clarity. Dig Me Out is probably the best record for this, but Hot Rock does the same thing with probably tougher subject matter. They were almost always thoughtful in dealing with emotion, which I guess can come off as distance.

TS: Corin vs. Roger Daltry

Daltrey!

(fuck, I can't believe I did that)

Roger on record or Roger in performance? Because watching that guy adds all kinds of negatives over simply listening to him. But I think, either way, I vote Corin Tucker.

Carrie Brownstein vs. Pete Townshend?

They're both very animated onstage, great secondary singers and pretty good writers.

I miss S-K a lot, but I don't miss the hand wringing that followed each album and whether or not Dave Fridmann + Sub Pop is any more/less authentic than Goodmanson + KRS. Then again, I've always thought that bands should release less.

As an aside, I like Carrie (and Fred Armisen's) ThunderAnt videocast

As another aside, all y'all can love Madonna if you want, but 'Beautiful Stranger' makes me physically ill even if I think about it... BRB

That's my favorite Madonna single fo the last 10 years.

I thought this thread was gonna be all creepy suicide note but instead it's in-depth analysis of what carrie brownstein thinks of madonna

of course it is!

i think it's teasing a new single

not a big st. vincent fan so was a bit worried but first single rules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5uAH0vNn2s

could maybe do without the reverby yelps

this sounds very much like what i'd expect sleater-kinney produced by st. vincent to sound like

I like it! Never have really listened to St. Vincent, so to me it sounds like a less noisey The Woods.

otm xp

Missed this charity album track from '17 (not on youtube): https://open.spotify.com/album/3BEQvcAzhYWoYVu41ySTdd?si=dIHsWEd5Q724zQew6N6Yxg

I'm really digging this, and ufo otm. It's weird (but good) that there's so much bass in the mix, though, considering Janet said a few years ago, "That big bass sound that hits you in your gut is unpleasant!"

Really liking this

Miranda July! I always forget about her.

Liking this too! It feels like a logical progression from NCTL, dancey post-punk but this time with glossier production.

Fall US/Canada tour announced today too.

I never listen to No Cities to Love, but it's one of the better comebacks of recent years -- it's like they never left.

Yes. I’m happy for a world with Sleater-Kinney.

Pre-sale tix available now.

New Song!

https://open.spotify.com/album/2KF3U2jrmF8c9L2TmHw3Xa?si=Xh8F8NYgRNSntkaGnkTBqA

"The Future Is Here"...a slower New Wave-y Corin track.

I take back the whole premise of this thread. Now I dream of a world without Sleater-Kinney.

So much older then...