1) Brian Wilson2) Carole King/David Goffin3) Lennon-McCartney4) Holland-Dozier-Holland5) Gene Clark6) Marissa Marchant6) Those other guys
Songwriters more unduly hated on by anti-rockist kneejerkers at ILM than Bob Pollard:
1) ????
― Dr. Gene Scott (shinybeast), Saturday, 8 October 2005 22:50 (eighteen years ago) link
A lot of his output (especially his solo output) ain't so hot because of the fact that he apparently thinks every 57 second half-idea he comes up with on the shitter is an awesome song, but this is not so.
People based their opinions of a songwriter on their entire output, and with Pollard, you have some great stuff lost in the brush of a lot of not-so-great stuff.
― J. Alston, Sunday, 9 October 2005 02:52 (eighteen years ago) link
I don't get why people hold it against him that he's too prolific. And it makes it all the more absurd that people who think he only wrote a few good songs can explain it through that. As if he's like some monkey banging away at a typewriter who types long enough to eventually produce Shakespeare.
Funny this thread should come up since I hadn't listened to Bee Thousand in about five years. Then today I inexplicably got "Echos Myron" stuck in my head to the point where i had to pull out the LP and give it a listen again. Such a great song. Part of him being underrated as a songwriter is that he's actually a gifted lyricist yet people tend to discount his lyrics as abstract nonsense.
― Jacobo Rock (jacobo rock), Sunday, 9 October 2005 06:37 (eighteen years ago) link
But hey, if you went to a show once and were skeeved by the very devoted, very male crowd, or if you went to the discography and found it inpenetrable and wanted an excuse not to be bothered, or need someone to blame for all the lo-fi or lazy collage art he inspired...he's an easy target.
Time will win out, though, as it since has for the once critically reviled likes of Wordsworth, Led Zeppelin and Peter Falk. Pollard will be the ne plus ultra of ILM saintdom in about the year 2023.
― Dr. Gene Scott (shinybeast), Sunday, 9 October 2005 10:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― sean gramophone (Sean M), Sunday, 9 October 2005 10:39 (eighteen years ago) link
You must be so. fucking. high.
― Don King of the Mountain (noodle vague), Sunday, 9 October 2005 10:43 (eighteen years ago) link
Sean this is a project I would happily undertake...but would that require a separate up/download for each track, or is there a way to do it in one fell swoop?
― Dr. Gene Scott (shinybeast), Sunday, 9 October 2005 10:55 (eighteen years ago) link
That said, I think Michael's remark - "it's awfully strange to call Pollard a songwriter" - is OTM, and speaks to the thread-question (which also loaded the dice against itself so badly that you couldn't really expect much reasoned dialogue, I figure). Pollard's got this sixties-pastiche thing going that seems to me, after a short time, rather more like something of a nervous tic or reflexive habit than compositional choice. Now, one might say: "who cares if the aesthetic is intentional or accidental?" but with something as referential/reverential as Pollard's '60s jones it seems fair to ask: what's he trying to do? "Write good songs" seems a disingenuous response, there's too much going on in 'em to think of them as just "here's what I came up with!"
Full disclosure, I can get into a GBV song when I hear one but have never really been able to bring myself to care much otherwise.
― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Sunday, 9 October 2005 11:24 (eighteen years ago) link
Sheer # of amazing amazing 60's-esque Melodies
Greg Cartwright (Oblivians/Compulsive Gamblers/Reigning Sound) not only matches him but thoroughly beats him at it.
― Vic Funk, Sunday, 9 October 2005 11:56 (eighteen years ago) link
It seems if he’d presented his songs (they are songs!) in a single guise — a dozen albums produced by Jon Brion or whatever with I don’t know Ry fucking Cooder, he’d be getting enormous props around here. If anything, Pollard’s sin is probably so unabashedly loving rock music (!), which turns out to be just NOT COOL. A lot of people can’t stomach the references without the wink-wink or the angular haircut. But for Pollard the aesthetic is inextricable to “writing good songs.” He’s a naïf -- the leg kicks are no joke -- and when that sincerity touches some sing-along schmuck in a backwards cap it rubs people wrong, especially people who have slotted him “indie rock” (which, btw, he is CONSTANTLY apologizing for/denouncing…)
― Dr. Gene Scott (shinybeast), Sunday, 9 October 2005 12:48 (eighteen years ago) link
This just isn't true - I had a huge paragraph arguing with it, but what would be the point? I think people have honest aesthetic reasons for disliking GBV, you've got this demonstrably false notion that Pollard isn't mega-famous because the sneering literati wanna keep him down or something. It doesn't matter, at any rate, whether he denounces indie rock; so does every other indie rock luminary, it goes with the territory!
― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Sunday, 9 October 2005 13:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Sunday, 9 October 2005 13:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr. Gene Scott (shinybeast), Sunday, 9 October 2005 14:05 (eighteen years ago) link
*,** The answer to both of these questions would, of course, be pretty simple: absurd productivity, unwillingness to leave Dayton, lack of a breakout "Float On"-like single, beer, the bad timing of the move to hi-fi production coinciding with a creative lull.
For the record, I thought "Teenage FBI" was going to be huge. The fact that this was not licensed to every teen-comedy soundtrack in 1999 is a spectacular marketing failure.
― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 9 October 2005 14:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― Never Mind, Sunday, 9 October 2005 15:17 (eighteen years ago) link
Because they are? If not, please prove otherwise.
― Never Mind, Sunday, 9 October 2005 15:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jacobo Rock (jacobo rock), Sunday, 9 October 2005 16:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr. Gene Scott (shinybeast), Sunday, 9 October 2005 16:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:22 (eighteen years ago) link
most artists eke out one or two songs out of a career of approximately hundreds, he makes 10 incredible songs out of thousands. why do we hold someone in such high esteem if, mathematically speaking, his ratio for delivering the goods was so incredibly low?
furthermore, pollard had plenty of editors willing to assist him -- its a shame his stubborn attitude got in the way.
― maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:53 (eighteen years ago) link
I'm going to open myself up to ridicule here, but I'd like to state that BP's new "Coast To Coast Carpet Of Love" is quite lovely indeed. I haven't picked up "Standard Gargoyle Delusions" yet, but I've been pleasantly surprised by how consistent he's been since climbing aboard the Merge train.
Okay, fire away!
― Davey D, Friday, 12 October 2007 23:57 (sixteen years ago) link
i'm down w/guided by voices
― M@tt He1ges0n, Saturday, 13 October 2007 00:12 (sixteen years ago) link
neither of the 2 new ones are as good as "normal happiness" from last year or the takeovers' "bad football" from this year
― ciderpress, Saturday, 13 October 2007 00:15 (sixteen years ago) link
"standard gargoyle decisions" has a fantastic album cover though
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WXe9FjSrL._SS500_.jpg
― ciderpress, Saturday, 13 October 2007 00:20 (sixteen years ago) link
and "customer's throat" is a great tune
― ciderpress, Saturday, 13 October 2007 00:22 (sixteen years ago) link
I would just like to say that Pollard's last decade of work is WAY too Genesis-influenced to be called "straight-no-chaser indie rock." There is some serious ass chaser in it.
― da croupier, Saturday, 13 October 2007 03:01 (sixteen years ago) link
Has anyone heard the new single?It's fantastic.From his new album-"Robert Pollard is Off To Business".I believe that's the title.Anyway,great stuff as usual.
― YouandIknowthedeal, Thursday, 15 May 2008 01:22 (fifteen years ago) link
matthew smith from outrageous cherry writes better melodies and has a much higher hit rate
― electricsound, Thursday, 15 May 2008 02:05 (fifteen years ago) link
LOL at outrageous cherry.
― YouandIknowthedeal, Thursday, 15 May 2008 02:15 (fifteen years ago) link
And you know,I like outrageous cherry.Still,it's like comparing cherries and oranges.
― YouandIknowthedeal, Thursday, 15 May 2008 02:19 (fifteen years ago) link
what's to lol? they're a top band who has made a stack of great records
― electricsound, Thursday, 15 May 2008 02:21 (fifteen years ago) link
As has GBV/Pollard solo etc.I just think Outrageous Cherry doesn't have that distinct of a sound.Whatever influences Pollard might be mining at the moment he makes sure to infuse it with his own warped flavor.You can mistake O.C. for someone else.I think that would be more difficult with a good portion of the Pollard stuff.Plus-he wrote a song called "Kicker Of Elves".I mean come on.
― YouandIknowthedeal, Thursday, 15 May 2008 02:24 (fifteen years ago) link
look i like pollard but i don't agree with your take on OC. i'm willing to accept that as a heavily immersed fan i don't see the wood for the trees but that's not really here or there.
pollard's quirky titles have never really been a big part of his appeal to me, i don't particularly understand why people get so excited about them. sometimes they just let the lyrics down.
― electricsound, Thursday, 15 May 2008 02:30 (fifteen years ago) link
whats going on with Outrageous Cherry/Smith anyway? it's been a while since their last record
― Zeno, Thursday, 15 May 2008 04:18 (fifteen years ago) link
i know that they changed rhythm sections again, i'm hanging for a newie but i think it's only been a bit over a year so there's still time
― electricsound, Thursday, 15 May 2008 04:22 (fifteen years ago) link
actually yeah it's more like 18 months now..
― electricsound, Thursday, 15 May 2008 04:23 (fifteen years ago) link
somehow it looks longer. anyway, the last isuued Smith involved project is the last Monster Island record - children of mu
― Zeno, Thursday, 15 May 2008 04:32 (fifteen years ago) link
Yep.Still rules.
― YouandIknowthedeal, Thursday, 15 May 2008 06:05 (fifteen years ago) link
That new Boston Spaceships record is actually very good.Pollard's voice is rather high here somehow, and the sonwriting is constantly good
― Zeno, Wednesday, 1 October 2008 23:47 (fifteen years ago) link
i thought his last few solo albums on matador were really, really crap. it would be nice to hear something good and new from him again
― For technical assistance, please contact our Support Team (electricsound), Wednesday, 1 October 2008 23:48 (fifteen years ago) link
they were. but this is good. dont expect anything new in terms of production/style, but at least the songwriting is better.(and at the worst, it's harmless)
― Zeno, Wednesday, 1 October 2008 23:51 (fifteen years ago) link
When I first got into Pollard/GBV I bought Alien Lanes and From A Compound Eye((which was my fave album of 2006 next to Scott Walker's Drift))), one of my friends and a whole bunch of reviewers made me realise lots of people hate him for some reason.
I've been buying every new Pollard album since then and the occasional GBV and I dont really understand why people think he has gone downhill. I dont mind at all that he could have saved up his best songs to make fewer, better albums, I'm just amazed that anyone can make so much music that I never get bored of. The usual is 3-6 amazing songs are decent/good, but I've yet to find any of them shit. I'm not gonna be one of those guys that hails every track as genius, but I do think Pollard is a genius. I think it's crazy just how much is going on in each song and that I'm probably not even going to realise much about any of those songs.
I tend to like a lot of the songs that people hate. I thought the Silverfish Trivia EP was as good as Alien Lanes and "Cats Love A Parade" was incredible, lots of people hated it. I was really impressed with "Waves" too, I hope that Pollard will explore ambient music or already has in a record I have yet to buy.
I've never got the chance to got to one of his concerts yet or meet another fan of his, so I dont really understand the hostility.
I will buy all his records if I can find them.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 15 November 2008 00:29 (fifteen years ago) link
the way i always saw it was that the guy could have, i suppose, released a record every three years with ten great songs on it, but he just didn't want to. as with ANY songwriter, he's got songs that clearly aren't up to par with the best of his tunes (aside: people who worship the ground the guy walks on and think that >50% of his songs are great are really really nuts, and terribly deluded). the difference is, he decided to release just about every idea that he wrote down, which diluted a lot of his work and made many of his albums not work as a whole as much. but why is this a bad thing? sure, the records themselves aren't all classics (though there are two or three that are, imo), but there isn't really anyone with a legitimate opinion who thinks they all are. and i'm not really offended by it and don't see the practice of releasing two or three uneven records a year as cash-grabbing, because how many records has the guys sold combined? a million? less?sorry this is so poorly written but i think my point is that he's not an album artist but rather someone whose entire body of work is available and you can pick which songs you like. if you can get over that, there's a LOT of really, really incredible songs (and hundreds of worthless ones).
― Kevin Keller, Saturday, 15 November 2008 03:32 (fifteen years ago) link
Dude rules. He's rated accurately, which is to say- he's underrated. Have you guys heard the Cosmos record. With Richard Davies? Should be more discussion. It's really good.
― SourPatchCorpse, Friday, 24 July 2009 21:56 (fourteen years ago) link
haha, who's sock was this?
― (*゚ー゚)θ L(。・_・) °~ヾ(・ε・ *) (Steve Shasta), Friday, 24 July 2009 21:59 (fourteen years ago) link
It belonged to Anthony Kiedis.
― SourPatchCorpse, Friday, 24 July 2009 22:03 (fourteen years ago) link
Haven't heard the Cosmos record yet, still catching up some of his other 2009 releases. This week I've been on a really big Circus Devils kick, particularly Sgt. Disco and Ataxia. I love the dark, creepy vibe that pervades many of these songs. There's also a much higher percentage of real hooks on these, as compared to the earlier Circus Devils albums, so maybe just a little "easier" to absorb. I got Gringo off iTunes the other night, but haven't spent any time with it yet.
― Size-zero-brigade-embrace-token-chubby-chops (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 22 September 2009 13:01 (fourteen years ago) link
Gringo kinda sucked, though I've got no real incentive to meet the guy halfway anymore - i'm fine w/ living with his 90s stuff forever
― the nader of civilization (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 22 September 2009 13:16 (fourteen years ago) link
I long ago gave up on buying (or even listening) to the recs he made. The sheer volume just drove me away. But I do agree the guy writes some pretty good tunes. Sadly he isn't a very good editor.
― Nathalie (stevienixed), Tuesday, 22 September 2009 13:21 (fourteen years ago) link
Oh yeah, I won't argue about the editing thing... but I've discovered that even pulling out a record I'd dismissed years ago, some new gem shines through and I realize how truly great he can be.
― Size-zero-brigade-embrace-token-chubby-chops (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 22 September 2009 13:23 (fourteen years ago) link
synchronicity — just saw this pollard-curated Roches mix posted on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/user/1247112455/playlist/6Zf8EZVGFPVeTDyQpS5SW6
― tylerw, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 22:12 (six years ago) link
That's....unexpected.
I guess it's easy to look at the sheer volume of it all and penalize him for hitting, say, .250.... But shit man 200 really good songs is 200 really good songs!
― Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 22:20 (six years ago) link
Author Matthew Cutter is a longtime friend of Pollard
This is not good though.
― Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 22:21 (six years ago) link
Yeah not ideal but anyway I'm not reading for some kind of takedown
― Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 22:25 (six years ago) link
I am okay w hagiography if the subject is p much someone slogging it out on the margins
― Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 22:29 (six years ago) link
yeah i don't really mind, and it's not like bob is super mysterious
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 22:31 (six years ago) link
Posted on the/a GBV thread, but they killed it here the night before New Year's. Three hour set! And then they did it again in NYE I guess.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 22:32 (six years ago) link
Is Sprout still in band?
― calstars, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 22:40 (six years ago) link
They were indeed good at Empty Bottle! I was at that same show! No Sprout isn't in band - but that's ok Bobby Bare Jr is a nice foil for Doug Gillard and the band all around smokes. Kevin March is an excellent drummer for them!
― BlackIronPrison, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 22:51 (six years ago) link
Did you read Jim Greer's book on GBV? All those tedious tales of Bob and his boring boozing buddies yukking it up down in Bob's basement? I'm not expecting a takedown but, if you're going to write a book on Pollard, a little distance would be preferable because the guy seems to have surrounded himself with boosters and cheerleaders and enablers - no women though, of course.
― Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 22:54 (six years ago) link
Ugh Doug Gillard sucks
― calstars, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 23:00 (six years ago) link
I guess he’s the best steady Bob could get But damn he’s got no soul man
― calstars, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 23:01 (six years ago) link
This is a Bob thread, I get it, but he shouldn’t be advertising GBV without his club dudes
― calstars, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 23:03 (six years ago) link
Yes, I think he's a good foil but I don't really like his guitar playing.
― Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 23:04 (six years ago) link
It’s too exact
― calstars, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 23:05 (six years ago) link
too orthodox
i not only read the jim greer book, but attended a book tour event, which was my first (and only) time meeting bob p
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 23:50 (six years ago) link
I read the Greer book, it was whatever. I'm definitely not interested in an analysis of why there are no women in the band. I would be very up for nerding out on his process (beyond Rolling Rock), song germination, takes on his peers and other musicians/artists etc.
― Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 11 January 2018 00:10 (six years ago) link
I appreciate Gillard for his versatility. He never sounds like he's really bleeding for it like Mitch Mitchell did, but there's a lot of mid- and later-period Pollard stuff that calls for greater range
― Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 11 January 2018 00:12 (six years ago) link