70s Salsa (was The Fania Label 1970-1980: S/D)

and also - by all means, let's expand out past fania!!

Since we're going beyond Fania, let me recommend Cheo Feliciano's Cheo (if you don't mind some boleros). He sang with the Fania All Stars as well, of course. Also, some earlier material: Cheo Feliciano: The Best With Joe Cuba Sextet is mostly fantastic.

Hmmmm, listening to "Hard Hands" now. This has a real Latin soul/boogaloo sort of thing going on.

The only one I've heard is "Salsa" but it's really hard for me to listen to because while the music is great it gets interrupted by lots of introductions, audio interview and weird field recording bits. The sound quality is terrible too.

Eddie Palmieri? I have Harlem River Drive which is great in a funky soul jazz way. Did he do anything more salsa oriented?

Eddie Palmieri

At the moment I am especially pushing Azucar Pa' Ti, Unfinished Masterpiece, Eddie Palmieri & Cal Tjader - Bamboleate, Lucumi, Macumba, Voodoo (although it includes some weird experiments with fusion, disco, etc.), and Palo Pa' Rumba (from 1984). All the material with his band La Perfecta (the original, not the recent reincarnation) is worth checking out, although the sound is uniformly very bad.

I just downloaded "Hard Hands" so I could help out and I'm still not sure about Barretto's "Ahora Si!"

"Descarga" is more like, very open-ended, improvisation-oriented, sort of like jazz, but too far over on the Latin dance side of things to really be Latin jazz (though it's not an obvious distinction). I don't think "Hard Hands" is Latin jazz. It sort of straddles the line between salsa and Latin soul, I think.

x-post

vahid, you may simply want to stay in the 60s and early 70s if you want similar things. Hmmm, might like Azuquita's Pura Salsa which is from a bit later but retains some Latin soul/boogaloo feel.

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0VQKLPA8H9K3T1FQGD7I71AMT6

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=11UPY8PUZFUD219ZX9RW41XLI4

Eddie Palmieri - Vamonos Pa'l Monte (1976 Tico). This is killer. It's has more of an abstract jazz vibe than any of the Fania stuff I've heard and the sound is much fuller and more atmospheric. Caminando is probably the standout track with its tin can vocal effects, funky drumming and wild organ parts.

Ricardo Ray & Bobby Cruz - 1975 (1974 Vaya). I haven't listened to this much yet but there are at least a couple of great songs on here. Ray & Cruz seem to have an affinity for weird little dissonant horn parts which I like.

Richie Ray & Bobby Cruz - El Sonido de la Bestia (1980 Vaya). Like the 1975 album they use strange dissonant touches here and there but overall this album seems a bit weaker. The only hint that the '80s are dawning is the occasional use of a '70s-style string machine that actually works pretty well.

Agreed!

I wish I knew Richie Ray & Bobby Cruz as more than just names.

. . .A retrospective of classics 1960s and 1970s New York salsa can be envisioned as a beast with three heads: one in the experimental vein led by Eddie Palmieri and Willie Colon; a second, "heavy" one in the Arsenio-Chappotin vein, led by Larry Harlow and Ray Barretto; and a third in the lighter Matancera style, led by Johnny Pacheco and Celia Cruz, that at times appeared to overpower the others. . . .

Puerto Rico, in turn, had its own schools, growing out of the combined influence of Cortijo and also the Sonora Matancera [originally Cuban, of course]. The most famous group, El Gran Combo de Puerto Rico, was founded in 1862 by members of Cortijo's original combo after Rafael Cortijo and his lead vocalist, Ismael Rivera, were incarcerated for drug possession. El Gran Combo carried Cortijo's legacy into the 1960s and 1970s, even after Cortijo and Rivera formed salsa bands of their own. Puerto Rico's other principal band, the Sonora Poncena, was founded in the 1950s. Originally modeled on Cuba's Sonora Matancera, the Poncena underwent several transitions and by the mid-1970s emerged with a style that retained the bright trumpets of its Cuban model but was fused with the heavy sound of the Arsenio school and the dynamic delivery of the Cortijo school. . .

I think this is either a son montuno or a cha cha cha. Probably son montuno because I think that's what walter said the liner notes said.

Just about every Fania All Stars album I've heard has a track kind of like this.

It's funny: I got mixed up originally about what you had said--plus I hadn't heard "Ahora Si," and I was thinking you were liking the most crossoverish sounding stuff from the 60s, but now it turns out you are actually liking something which is maybe "rootsier" than what I like. (But don't let that turn you off to it.)

I think you would like a lot of Fania All Stars, Johnny Pacheco, and Larry Harlow recordings, for starters (although they don't all sound like this, obviously). I think it would be worth your while to check out Larry Harlows album Salsa. Also, I bet you'd like most of Markolino Dimond/Frankie Dante's Beethoven's V.

I don't know much about boogaloo at all.

Anyway, if you like son montuno then you can always dip back into older Cuban recordings (or newer recordings of that style), and lots of salsa, etc. etc.

my salsa explorations sort of ground to a halt, much faster than i'd hoped. SO DIFFICULT TO FIND! out here in sunny san diego most latin listeners are looking for norteno or ranchera or something what's called "regional mexicana" at the record store. there's a pretty well-stocked "tropical" section at most chain stores but it's 75% ultra-glossy current pop from central america, rounded out with some current lite-latin-jazz from 70s figures.

all i've really managed to pick up are a couple of willie colon albums. no dice on siembra unfortunately. no luck finding any fania all-stars albums of note. and when i do turn up nice looking reissues, they're always on Get Back! or some other euro label so they're like 25 bucks for a 40 minute album! (ok they have nice LP-style sleeves but still!)

I think I've heard good things about that compilation, but there might be more obvious choices. I'm not too familiar with Arsenio Rodriguez's music. (I know who he is and sort of why he's important.) I don't think it's necessarily the horn section really.

As a dancer, it's easy to draw a line between what's salsa and what isn't. (Salsa = Latin music to which I can dance the steps I learned in my salsa class, with reasonable comfort.) Otherwise, it does become a little fuzzy. A lot of people say that New York salsa has a different sort of rhythmic drive than Cuban music even when it's basically sticking to a Cuban formula. I think there's something to that, though I wouldn't want to try to elaborate.

I finally got my turntable hooked up to my computer so here is the first track from Ricardo Ray & Bobby Cruz - 1975...

http://s12.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=22MQ4IVVJ6ZOE027YP39YOBGL4

http://s24.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3089PZ1MM8SVA1I4ADYU0HYJ9G

Sonora Poncena - Fuego En El 23
Ray, Richie - El Sonido De La Bestia
Blades, Ruben - Bohemio Y Poeta
Colon, Willie - Siembra
Cruz, Celia - Celia & Johnny
Colon, Willie - El Malo
Pacheco, Johnny / Pete "Conde" Rodriguez - Los Compadres
Rodriguez, Pete "El Conde" - I Like It Like That
La Lupe - Es La Reina
Harlow, Larry - Yo Soy Latino
Valentin, Bobby - Rey Del Bajo
Lavoe, Hector - La Voz
Betancourt, Justo - Leguleya No
Puente, Tito - Para Los Rumberos
Rivera, Ismael - Maelo
Palmieri, Eddie - Vamonos Pa'l Monte
Pacheco, Johnny - El Maestro
Roena, Roberto - Apollo Sound 5
Palmieri, Charlie - El Gigante Del Teclado
Tipica 73 - Charangueando Con La Tipica
Barretto, Ray - Acid
Cruz, Celia - Cuba Y Puerto Rico Son...
Miranda, Ismael - Asi Se Compone Un Son
Feliciano, Cheo - Cheo
Bataan, Joe - Riot
Ramirez, Louie - Ali Baba
Brothers, Lebron - Salsa Y Control
Santamaria, Mongo - Solrito
Cuba, Joe - Bang! Bang! Push, Push
Orquesta Inmensidad - La Salsa De Hoy

Santiago, Adalberto: Adalberto
Lavoe, Hector: De Ti Depende
Colon, Willie: Fantasmas
Cruz, Celia: Homenaje A Beny More
Barretto, Ray: Indestructible
Blades, Ruben: Maestra Vida Vol. 1
Colon, Santos: Siempre Santitos

(Hmmm. Does that make it NSFW?)

I need to go back to the Pacheco & Cruz albums

Okay, it was pointed out to me that there was a personal recollection from the violinist Sam Bardfeld, who is a friend of friends and plays with a lot of name acts.

Ugh, don't like the way that sounds.

Been slowly digging into this scene over the last year. Don't know much Pacheco, but i stumbled on some Willie Rosario that I really liked. Justo Betancourt's Leguleya No album is my favorite so far.

Willie Colon's Twitter feed is... disappointing.

there was a period of time when the Zavvi i had access to during my lunch hour was getting in Fania cd reissues overstocks and selling them off for £1 each.
despite not being into salsa at all, i grabbed what i could when i could (about 12 albums in the end).
when the sun comes out i still put them on and enjoy them more and more each time.

A 2020 article on Alegre Records who recorded Pacheco before he later co-founded Fania

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/alegre-records-history/

Here he is with fellow legend, Queen Mother Celia Cruz and his collective Fania All Stars in Zaire in 1974. Johnny Pacheco conducting the musicians and dancing w Celia like a boss. It’s the joy.
RIP Johnny Pacheco. pic.twitter.com/NUKYlxiKgN

— Karla ~ Ovalle (@KarlaValley) February 15, 2021

that rules!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/17/arts/music/johnny-pacheco-fania-records-playlist.html

Brief bio plus 15 cuts Pacheco was involved with

https://elpais.com/babelia/2021-02-25/johnny-pacheco-del-nuevo-tumbao-al-tumbao-anejo.html?ssm=TW_CC?event_log=oklogin&prod=REGCRARTBAB&o=cerrbab

The Cuban writer Leonardo Padura published last year Los rostros de la salsa (Tusquets), a book in which the author offers an intimate portrait of the genre through conversations with its main icons, such as Rubén Blades, Willie Colón, Juan Formell and Johnny Pacheco. We reproduce in full the one that he maintained in 1995 with the latter, who died on February 16 , in which he reviews his career from his frenetic adventures in New York in the seventies to the creation of the Fania record company and its consolidation as a name indispensable of Latin music.

An interesting interview translated to English

in addition to the charanga I had an ensemble that played in the style of the Sonora Matancera, Arsenio and Chapotín, and in '64 I was left alone with this group. So I started with thatCuban tumbao , but I added a tres and instead of the timbales I included a bongo and that's where "the new Pacheco tumbao " began, which would later be known as the " tumbao ", and now as the " old tumbao ", because I've been 30 years with the same formula. Since I learned it with Cugat, I always say that if a formula works, there is no reason to change it, and with that tumbao I have had the good fortune to record many of the greats of Latin music: Daniel Santos, Julio González, Pete Conde Rodríguez, Héctor Casanova, and my divine goddess, Celia Cruz.

I have the English translation of that book, Faces Of Salsa, and it is a very good read.

I should get that book

Thursday interview 7:30 et with Cita Rodriguez , singer w/ Mambo Legends Orchestra and daughter of Pete El Conde Rodriguez , Fania artist, sponsored by the Hostos Center for Arts & Culture as part of the Conversaciones Musica series

https://www.facebook.com/1661302984112144/posts/2861425087433255/?d=n

RIP Fania label legendary pianist Larry Harlow

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/20/1029760076/larry-harlow-salsa-music-icon-dead

RIP Larry. Have been obsessed with this record for a while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y9uwafGrlM

Thanks. So many cool little elements to “Dame un Tipi”— the spoken tone of the woman vocalist, the steady driving clave backbeat via Harlow and others, the various instrumental touches thrown on top

The whole album is delicious. It's a shame it's so ridiculously expensive on Discogs!