Microtonality

This will be hard for me to confirm, but I remember reading that one of the very early editions in the late 19th century contained the flat-out assertion -- later editions were more circumspect, but only after the error was taught for decades. I'll try to find the reference (perhaps it's in my copy of Wilkinson's Tuning In)

Equal Temperament as a concept certainly existed before Bach, but was difficult to implement because it was so difficult to force everyone to tune to intervals that were so minutely off -- it was just too hard to tune in Equal just by using your ears. You're absolutely right that various post-Werckmeister Well-Tempered systems were competing with Equal Temperament the whole time, I didn't mean to say it arrived instantaneously in 1917 -- it was a slow, bitterly argued contest through centuries, with Equal Temperament making intense headway in the 19th (as composers were expanding tonality to the breaking point), and making a final coup in the 20th once it was taught how to tune by counting the beating patterns.

It was after that coup when the historical revisionism set in, positing that even Bach used Equal, and by the time people started making recordings of pre-20th century classical, it was almost entirely recorded in Equal -- listeners acclimated. I read about how each key in Bach's WTC evokes a specific mood when actually played in Well -- and I can only read about it. We could use another thread where people recommend their favorite recordings of classics in historical tempraments.

I think there's a serialism greatest hits thread in the archives, I usually recommend Schoenberg's 'Suite For Piano Op. 25' as a starting point because a) it's great b) it's surprisingly tuneful c) unlike many 12-tone pieces, you can kind of hear the process. I like Glenn Gould's version, he plays Schoenberg like Bach.

There must be a well-tempered recording of the WTC somewhere (would take weeks to record with all that retuning though!). Try Googling for a "well-tempered version" of the "well-tempered clavier", though ...

Thanks, Tim - I'll listen to this at some point.

"and to Julio, what I was trying to say was -- I have no problem at all with New Complexity, I have a hesitance to accept quarter-tones / eighth-tones as a solution, I love most of the other names you've mentioned, the new Earle Brown CD reissue on New World is completely incredible"

Gotta get that - Earle is almost the forgotten composer from that quartet. Brown is part of an older complexity. And I'll just add that I do like many others that you mentioned, for different reasons and to different extents, with my favourite being probably Tenney. But I do think there is quite a bit of interchange, hence it really becomes important to play these alongide each other in a more imaginative program, something I seldom encounter in classical music recitals. xp

Hmmmm..I recall something like that, can't find it tho'. Incidentally, Lou has, I think, composed several works using those procedures, this includes a piano suite that I've not heard it so correct me if I'm wrong.

"Gloria Coates, it's screeching nausea."

Well, late last night I did put on my copy of her string quartet CD (of two on Naxos, its nos. 1,5,6) (Kreutzer, who also recorded a great CD of Finnissy's quartet music on Metier). And er..what i kept thinking ws how she ws trying to capture (in a million different ways) a feeling of sea-sickness (not that I've been on a ship) in every single one of these, so 'screeching nausea' is pretty accurate! I've read one interview with her where she's very much against serial music..not sure as to whether its a solution for her, or more to do with a very personal style. I got an odd feeling, a mixture of enjoyement/annoyance/boredom while listening, which is what I look for a lot of the time, it interests me..

I'll do some more listening and return to a few more points if I can.

(I'd be very intersted in hearing a "well-tempered version".)

I think the idea is, a single tuning suffices -- Bach wrote the WTC to take advantage of the specific moods of the differing intervals of each key, so that each piece is very distinct

I found the reference to the Grove's error, and unsurprisingly it's Kyle Gann's article on historical tunings, a lot of which is obviously the source for my posts on this thread: http://www.kylegann.com/histune.html

at the end of which, Gann points out Robert Levin's recording of the WTC -- I just ordered book one. Gann also lists the two Enid Katahn CDs on Gasparo, which I have, the Beethoven one is very subtle, the Six Degrees of Tonality one is a lot more striking

from Gann's article:

Because it determines what sounds good, tuning has a pervasive influence on compositional tendencies. Every piece of pitched music is the expression of a tuning. Meantone encouraged composers to use major and minor triads, to avoid open perfect fifths without thirds, and to not stray more than three or four steps in the circle of fifths away from a central key. Renaissance and early Baroque music played in meantone sounds seductively sweet and attractive. By playing it in modern equal temperament, we do violence to its essential nature. Perhaps that's why this repertoire is no longer often heard. It's been painted over with the ugly gray of equal temperament.

and later

Playing Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier in today's equal temperament is like exhibiting Rembrandt paintings with wax paper taped over them.

what we really need, and what I've been unable to find anywhere, is a list of recordings of 17th to 19th century classical music that actually performed in historical tuning systems instead of equal temperament. It's a tragedy. You can get a little ways by googling for names of pieces + 'werckmeister III', but... there's not too much out there, and not too many people even know to mention it...

I did order the Robert Levin recording of WTC book I mentioned in my last post. It's enjoyable. The Ottavio Dantone WTC book I & II on Arts Music, though -- they are beyond belief, so well recorded it's surreal -- it captures everything, profoundly beautiful.

I also forgot that I had Johnny Reinhard's American Festival of Microtonal Music Orchestra's 'Early' CD which has two Brandenberg's in period tunings. It's a live concert / room recording, but it's a good disc.

You mean Period Performance and so on, yes?

Not a lot on tuning..but its a wiki page. xp

My comp professor met Partch one day and, after being friends with Cage and Feldman and the rest of 'em, says that Partch was the weirdest motherfucker he will ever meet.

He also told us to bring our drugs to the final.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Dec06/Partch_Enclosure7_Innova%20407.htm

Very much correct on the 'indiefication' of everything. So is the line about 'understanding even less the standard repertoire', among other things.

Having listened to some Babbitt, and when I heard that B ws into early jazz and broadway tunes that made sense - the odd jumpy passage that makes it onto his work for violin and piano, for example. I feel this aspect makes it onto his work, even if unconciously.

I must check out the Dantone WTC - thanks for the tip.

Thread Microtonal jazz has had new posts, with some distinctly non-jazzy tracks by ILEVENS and Sevish.

Just after this page's last update in '07...

one legendary group took party rock to strange new places. (with thanks to https://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?showall=true&bookmarkedmessageid=206&boardid=41&threadid=59934 )

'Van Halen really screws up "Jump"'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXPM6d9IdiY

I can’t tell which is funnier, this long-hated cheesebag-anthem turned into a much more interesting, atonal mess in front of thousands of paying customers or the hilarious soldiering on of the Van Halens as they look at each other from inside the trainwreck. Eddie tries to transpose on the fly and match the wildly fucked up keyboards but the great thing there is the difference in pitch is non-musical – about 1.5 semitones sharp. So there’s no frets he can choose to fix the problem! – (RW370)