Let's talk about Derrick May

Actually - you beat me to a lot of points on this thread. The thing about May - it's the hi-hats. So invigorating, so simple, so bountiful. It was what this music needed.

Yeah, "Beyond the Dance" is a piece of work, isn't it? What glorious music; it takes real imagination to create something like that. What a joy to sit in your room and listen to something like that. Screw the clubs. "Strings of Life"? C'mon, are you kidding me? Impossible brilliance (I'm all about the hyperbole tonight - blame the wine). Hell, throw in Carl Craig too. I take the two of them to be the best of the Detroit breed. Atkins and Saunderson are great, but really can't touch those two.

The funny thing is there really are a lot of traces in what these guys did in some of that late 70's stuff like Manuel Gottsching. I know that type of statement makes someone like Mike Taylor want to go on a rampage, but it's there. Hell, Craig made specific reference to it so it's not like it's a big deal. But yeah, problematic as they are, I love Taylor's posts. It's the Michigander in me.

To address the point made about my being one of the most absurd writers; it is your opinion, and when you wear my shoes perhaps it might make a bit more sense.

Frankly Millar, have you ever been to Detroit? Have you ever wandered around downtown Detroit in the middle of the night? Hell, do you have any experience in the Detroit club scene?

I can answer yes to all three of these questions. I stand by my statement because I know people who actually were there. I know what they have to say about it, and I know how much it meant to them. You weren't there, you don't know. You are not from anywhere near this region and you do not know what it is like, because it is not nice like NYC, London, or San Fran.

When I say that you need to come down to Detroit to understand those tracks I mean it. It isn't something I read in a copy of Mojo, I know what those tracks sound like out there because I *personally* have listened to those songs in the areas where they were written. When you have a look around it will make a lot more sense to you. I don't know where you are from, but I would never claim to have the same kind of intimate understanding of your region's recordings as I do of the ones that came out of Detroit. I know from first-hand experience that they make more sense in that climate.

Also, What does not make sense about that statement? I was under the impression that it was a widely understood idea in dance music culture that the club environment was a communal experience. It isn't just the records, the dj or the system, it is the venue, the people, the times, everything. Those records made their dance floor debuts in the Music Institute or other local venues on 1/4" Reel-to-Reel tape. Those records were made to be played on the floor for the people who were there. You might not like it because it doesn't include you, but those are the facts jack. Those records were purpose made dj tools that were engineered for, and refined in that particular setting. Derrick May made records for the clubbers in Detroit in the late 80's, and those records set the stage for electronic music in the 90's.

This is something that is ridiculously obvious to me, if no one else. All dance music only really lives for the first time a record blows up, after that it dies in a way, it never really explodes like it did that first summer or that first year in came out because it gets covered with the dust of the cannon. I was 12 years old when the MI was going, so I way too young to be there. When I was finally old enough to be a part of the Detroit scene I paid my dues week in and week out for about 8 years. I have seen a lot of labels, dj's, producers, and micro genres come and go since 1995. If you were not there for a particular period of time, you can never really understand it like someone who was actually there. The records just don't sound the same because you do not have the associations that go along with that particular time. The records are just something that gets exported for cash, but the real experience of dance music is off the record. You are just receiving the mediated experience, the residue of club culture if you will.

Techno is a lifestyle; it is not a genre of music. I am not going to claim that I am a huge insider and that I was there when Ron Murphy cut the plates for Strings Of Life at National Sound, but I have had personal contact with more than a few of the people involved with it. Because I have been to the places where these records were made, dealt with the people that made them, and live in the region where it happened, I probably have a little more insight than most. I probably do understand those records a little bit better because of that.

I am not saying that because I think I am the top dog, it is just something that seems to be true to me. When I look at the Detroit records, vs. say Cologne minimal techno, I do not have the same understanding of it. It is foreign to me. It is external. I can enjoy them, I can understand them, but I cannot really know them in the same way that I understand a local record, especially a record from somebody I know or have seen around for years and years. That might be horrible and elitist, but I don't know what else to tell you.

I understand Derrick May’s music more than say someone like Lou Reed, because I have spoken with dm a handful of times, dealt with the people that work at his label, have all the local gossip, and live in the same region. I have never met Lou Reed, I have never been in NYC, and I have never had any business or personal dealings with anyone who is remotely close to him. If you had all three I would not flip out if you claimed to have a better understanding of the VU, it would strike me as common sense.

Maybe I am just nuts…

What was important was that he took all these threads that were out there and weaved them all together while imposing his personality on them. And that was something NEW! Trust me, I know where Derrick May got his ideas from, and I don't think he has ever denied being influenced by what came before him. For the record, I am completely aware that there was music before Detroit Techno.

Thanks for the love Ronan and Mr. D. Believe it or not, I am not nearly as militant about Detroit Techno as I was a couple years back. It is hard to get my blood up about too much of anything when it comes to music anymore. It is a shame in some ways, when I used to rant, right or wrong, I used to kick up one hell of a racket.

so i obviously know a lot of early detroit tracks from hearing them being played,but i don't know specifically which ones

i would like some way to get to know the landmarks of detroit techno (other than the really well known ones-the bells,strings of life,good life,a few others)
and i would like to hear more from derrick may (consciously) but i dunno if there's much point buying a compilation of tracks made to be mixed into other tracks...
i am trying to download the mayday mix,but no luck so far
can anyone recommend other mixes that might give me some more understanding of detroit techno?
(i know the liquid room,obv,and am fairly familiar with harder,loop based techno,but i don't know a huge amount about the detroit stuff,or not as much as i feel i should,anyway)

this is one of the silliest things i have ever read

mike's posts always amuse me because there's such a cliche about this post-reynoldsian detroit pietist stereotype which after a while you can end up believing is a total construct until you run into one

I will answer your posts tomorrow Steve and Robin. Perhaps my writing is not up to par, because people are completely missing what I am trying to get across.

I brought up Lou Reed for a reason, and when I explain myself I think things will be a bit clearer.

and remember jess, you Reynolds accolades have a special place in our hearts as well. There are more of us "pietist constructs" than you are probably aware of, we have been right all along ;)

Just got some sad news -- a big reason (and why I'm posting on this thread) is at the end:

this note from brad hales - his shop was in the forest arms building on the wayne state campus that burned today. please let your friends and fellow record store geeks know this info.

Friends,

I am sorry to report that Detroit's Forest Arms apartment building was lost early this morning to a massive fire. The building is toast. Our new location is in the basement of my apartment, at 5835 Third St., just south of Antoinette.

If anybody wishes to help out, how about sending a prayer out to the hundred or so people who lived there who are now homeless, and lost pets, and probably in a lot of cases, everything they owned to the blaze.

People's Records will continue on without even really ever stopping. Unfortunately, I have to just about start over. Everything there is under about 4 feet of water. Literally.

Also, if you have any photos of the old place, email peoplesrecordsdetr✧✧✧@gm✧✧✧.c✧✧

I think we may be having a benefit at the Bohemian within the next week or so; details to follow.

So, if anybody wants to stop by the house on Third, Zac, Anibal and I are preparing the basement, and getting things ready for our newest incarnation.
That's today. I don't think anything can be done at the store right now; it's going to take a whole lot of sump pumps to eventually get all the water out of that basement. 5,000 gallons A MINUTE were being pumped in.

Phone calls don't really help right now; my voicemail is already full. Stop by the house on Third if you want to help.

best,
brad

p.s. I needed a vacation anyway.

p.p.s. Still paying CA$H for old records.

p.p.p.s. this is also the building where derrick may recorded "strings of life", "the dance", "nude photo" etc..... nuff respect....

Bizarre. I spent nearly five years down the street, and not to be a pain, but I think Brad is incorrect. I’ve heard from Derrick that he wrote most of those songs two blocks down at the Sheridan Court, which is now the neighborhood crack den. But it’s possible, like everything about Derrick that he made either story up.

I was under the impression he recorded his big tracks at the Atlas Building, but what do I know...

in any event, it's always sad when the D loses another grand old building, and good luck to the residents...

sad news. reminds me of this: http://flickr.com/photos/sweetjuniper/2050168942/

For ex-Detroit people: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22821077@N04/sets/72157603860521532/

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=1001082564&albumID=0&imageID=373897

^^ LOL

as someone who is nearly completely ignorant abt these genre and subgenres and doesnt really care abt musical importantness id like to take this opportunity to weigh in on derrik may v techno.

firstly he is so delightfully funky. so so much! this shit is way more that than most house. how did techno become the uptight brother?

also the way its constructed and the sounds. the analog sounds and programing they are v distinctive and wonderful.

this is great great music.

the mike taylor posts are a truly stunning synergy of insight and wrongheadedness. ingenious!

how did techno become the uptight brother?

berlin

yah i know but but its still kinda weird and inexplicable

well a lot of the europeans weren't just following along from the detroit sounds, they were imitating straight-ahead kraftwerk and moroder and early hi-nrg material too

its interesting that it instantly comes to this question. i mean detroit shit was the key ingredient right?

mayday mix is :D
love that he used 'get down get horny'

i mean detroit shit was the key ingredient right?

you can make this argument, but bloonkity doonkity shuffle DX basslines like May is so fond of didn't seem to catch on as much as the space cadet stuff on top. White people, you know.

is this related to why stuffwhitepeoplelike.com doesnt lol me?

it doesn't lol me either

hmmm

tbh there's a lot of stuff on Innovator that I find lame

that drama bassline caught on, i think

May's personal quality control seems to have started out where Craig's has ended up :(((

can you elaborate?

well I said I thought a lot of stuff on innovator was lame, and compared to the wall of hits that is TSToDr.E or other comps of earlier material, craig's last couple of efforts have seemed, uh, to contain many lame things

IMHO

how come kaos isnt on innovator wtf

the mike taylor posts are a truly stunning synergy of insight and wrongheadedness. ingenious!

It is a very special talent...

I wish I could be bothered to argue over things like this anymore. The blood cools with age.

I did manage to pick up a copy of Wiggin a couple days ago for a few bucks. Hard knock life.

As far as techno becoming uptight, the answer is Plus8/UR and the hidden influence of industrial music on techno.

^^ tightie-whities

The thing that is most interesting to me is how different my perspective on the big picture of dance music is after all these years.

Myopia is both the beauty and problem with living in Detroit.

Two weeks ago in Ghent, I had the rare opportunity to see Derrick May DJ in a club with a capacity of no more than 150 ppl. AMAZING SET: solid, tight, funky, unrelenting. For at least the last half of the three-and-a-half hours, the bass (in the style of Oscar G & Ralph Falcon, i.e. Murk-style) never let up. As the minute hand crept closer to 5:00, I sensed tension building and I was right: on the basis of past sets (and the plethora of mp3's of past Derrick May live sets that until recently were available on MixesDB.com), one might have expected him to do a mostly techno set. Guess again: it was all DEEP HOUSE, few if any vocals, and with the tiny club you could imagine what it must have been like to have one of these guys do a loft party back in the day. In any case, getting toward five o'clock, things got to a point where he would cut to the sort of techno record that the crowd was jonesin' for, then cut back to the other record with the BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM Miami-style bass, then back to four bars of the techno record, then BOOM-BOOM-BOOM, back and forth, and then suddenly, right at 5, he segged to "Killa Bite" by Ben Sims [you get the picture? Techno + Deep House averages out to Tech-House!], and the room just exploded! It was the climax/release that everyone was waiting for. Brilliant.

Skip the records. 20 years ago you would have been wasting your time if you bought Grateful Dead records, because the real goods were the live sets. It's the same with Derrick May -- the real joy is when he's on the decks. RESPECT.

To understand what the man is capable of, track down a copy of "The Mayday Mix". 11 years on, it's still the best DJ set on CD that I've ever heard. On other boards I've seen discussions where knowledgeable readers absolutely could not determine whether he was using 1 or 2 copies of Green Velvet's "The Preacher Man"; whether the record that samples "Let No Man Put Asunder" is "What Has Been Joined by G.O.D.", or is it "Car Crash Mixer"; how he managed to do what he does with "ONLY" three turntables. And he plays Jeff Mills' "Alarms" and Phuture's "Spank Spank" on top of each other as though they were intended to be part of the same recording. Phenomenal.

If this were a just world, people would be trading mp3s of Derrick May sets the way that they used to trade bootleg tapes of Dead shows.

<3 mayday mix, one of the best ever

it's also especially laughable when discussions of future-forward music get stuck debating what the realest shit was 30 years ago

That's interesting because I think late 90s trance is the same. Those progressive records are much better produced than the brain bashing minimalism of techno, yet on the whole they do nothing for me. High production standards can mean too many novelty tricks for the sake of it. this just ends up sounding like aural wallpaper.

any talk on Italo that cites it’s zenith as 85 is conflating totally different phases and scenes

xpost: that said, that Cass & Slide tune is indeed boring as fuck.

Nah, it does nothing for you because you were just too old when 90s trance came along and it wasn't your scene. I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, that's just how this whole thing works. Virtually nobody appreciates the stuff that came right *after* their favourite era of music.

Actually no. I was into UK garage (well, 2step especially the overtly poppy shola ama end of it) at the time. Which did have some polished production values but this progressive stuff is panaramic in a way 2step wasn't. In a way I see that as it's strength. But it's not a strength I'm interested in. Complexity can be a curse. I was actually too young at the time to know about the earlier (mid 90s german trance.) Hardly what teenagers glued into the london pirates had access to. But to me trance should have always sounded like this. Amphetamine psychosis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQK32947YTA

I actually can't find much hard trance even from this 1993 era that is eerie and gothic like this. Nu beat for the raver generation.

There's tons of that, mostly German and Belgian though.

trance, like techno, is a very wide umbrella though, in terms of sonics, geography/scenes and eras. It's almost impossible to make useful generalized statements about it.

Discussions at this point on techno realness (with or without involving trance) are too poisoned by all the posturing, mythmaking and gatekeeping. The same tired cliches are getting wheeled out in 2021 as if they're brand new insights, just see any discogs forum. At some point you've read it all. This shit is 30+ years old, if you're invested in this music you know the score by now.

^^^^

Many of you sound very old, none of the young people making rave music talk like this, and disdain these discussions of purity and realness. Rightly so.

I am very old, but I agree, although there is definitely a trend of extremely hip up and coming techno and acid purists who spin the classics.

Lectric Workers

Thank you for mentioning this name, I know jack shit about Italo-Disco of any era but I love the singles I pulled up on YT.

though not limited to italo disco, check out I-F's Mixed Up at the Hague, a 2000-era mix that re-codified italodisco for a new generation.

^^ so good and so fun

Was going to also mention, a great thing about Chicago house (and its heavy Italo content) is that the blueprints of what went into it are all in mixes on YouTube from the mid 80s WBMX era

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekveVpJhYdI

pretty much how I view Mills' Wizard mixes and techno

Many of you sound very old, none of the young people making rave music talk like this

sorry, nobody under eighty. i’m getting old.