jenny mccarthy wants your kid to get measles: autism, vaccines, and stupid idiots

BTW her 5 y/o with ASD is one of the smartest kids i know. EMBRACE THIS SHIT PEOPLE.

Having chicken pox was one of the most miserable experiences of my life; I would literally have committed murder if someone had told me it would have cured me of it. I can't imagine avoiding anything that would shield a child from it.

well a genetic predisposition can by triggered by most anything. Schizophrenics get triggered, addiction gets triggered etc etc. its their biology. ASD too gets triggered in one of a trillion ways.

Also she made a smart decision to delay vaccinations. Not that he didnt get them they just spaced them out a little more instead of oh hey youre two lets give you 5 needles at once.

shit lies dormant and then it gets triggered and goes bananas. IE nothing CAUSES ASD.

I have no doubt that things can trigger things. I just don't see how your friend determined that ASD could be triggered by 2 year old vaccinations. Because there's no control in the "experiment," there's no way to know whether it would have manifested itself, anyway.

I had chicken pox at 16 and it was a terrible experience. From what I understand (not a medical genius), having chicken pox that late in life means that it is actually easier to contract it again later on. The later you get it, the more dangerous it is. So thanks for not getting chicken pox vaccines kids.

Xpost a genetic predisposition is not the same as saying you have something.

Plus, chicken pox immunity often wears off, vaccine or no. So old people run the risk of some serious shit. Also, I have friends who had shingles, which apparently suuuuuuuucks.

I think I was in the first batch of people in the US to get the chicken pox vaccine after making it to 14 without catching it

woo

My mom had shingles and, to put it mildly...yeah. Let's just say that based on my dad's description of how it affected her I'm kinda glad I wasn't there to see it.

I have had shingles (yay being imuno-compromised), and it is the WORST. Extreme pain, takes a while to go away, and even now after having had it seven years ago I will get aches and pains in the shoulder that was affected by it.

my grandfather had shingles IN HIS EYE for way too long

I didn't even know you could get it in your eye! That sounds like one of the most painful experiences imaginable.

Also: the treatment for shingles is Valtrex, and since I know my pharmacist knows me pretty well when I went in to pick it up I felt like I had to let everyone know that I did not have herpes.

I just googled some profoundly unhappy images.

My mom had some sort of skin irritation that was nerve-related and apparently some other random non-shingles, non-herpes simplex virus. I guess Valtrex works on that, too.

Josh, I dont know. I havent been studying this shit for years like she has. My older brother is schizophrenic and was fine until he reached 17 and then lost his shit. Who knows why. But it was there all along. dormant. I dont think its unbelievable.

I mean ruling genetics out is ridiculous

Sure, events or aging or a number of things could be what causes something like that to show up. I don't know that there has to necessarily be a "trigger" per se, but there's definitely some instances where there's a strong correlation.

Autistic spectrum signifiers showing up in kids post-vaccination is kind of a red herring, because from what I have read, a lot of those things generally show up around that age, anyway.

Something can be dormant for years or forever. And often what lies dormant is triggered. What I'm saying - and this is the crux of the vaccine debate - is that there is no way to know whether it's getting the vaccine at age two that triggered it, or jut turning two. Genetics plays a role, but there's very little in genetics that's totally predetermined. It's just a dance of dominant and recessive genes. It's totally possible that a vaccine can "trigger" something. It's just really impossible to prove that.

its not about whats in the 2 y/o injections themselves. its about the amount of them in short period of time could trigger dormant agressive ASD. Its kind of trauma for any kid to get stabbed that many time with diseases. SHe is pro vaccination. Dont mistake that. Her son has all his vaccinations. triggers are for real. read any med journal.

so maybe better said - trauma can trigger dormant diseases/disorders

cf weed/schizophrenia

trigger is plausible, but v difficult to demonstrate.

David Letterman had shingles in his eye, and iirc he said it was the worst pain imaginable, and he wouldn't wish it on his worst enemy. (yeah, yeah, "worst" twice, I'm leaving it)

wow i didn't even know there was a chicken pox vaccine!!! i had cp but only got a v v mild dose - i knew someone in hs who got it so bad it was inside her throat

so maybe better said - trauma can trigger dormant diseases/disorders

― giant snake birthday cake large fries chocolate shake (sunny successor), Friday, March 2, 2012 9:23 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

trigger is plausible, but v difficult to demonstrate.

― catbus otm (gbx), Friday, March 2, 2012 10:02 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

gbx otm. that's the thing, all sorts of things can trigger all sorts of things in a hazy, "nothing's impossible" sort of way, but unless you can defensibly demonstrate that stimulus a really is triggering condition b, then it's irresponsible to suggest that there's any relationship between the two.

was sort of thinking maybe I should send the other half to get the chicken pox vaccine since he doesn't remember whether he had it in childhood or not, but over here the NHS only offers it to people who live or work with people w/compromised immune systems

my sister had shingles when she was 3 years old, it was insane

I got retested for chicken pox vaccine before getting pregnant because ILX Nathalie freaked me the fuck out when she got it in her first trimester. Turns out I did get the vaccine when my cousin came down with it when i was 6 or 7. Doc claims it lasts forever and TBF ive never had ye olde cp.

r u sure? wiki claims the vaccine was introduced in japan/korea in '88, usa in '95, no word on oz

so maybe better said - trauma can trigger dormant diseases/disorders

― giant snake birthday cake large fries chocolate shake (sunny successor), Friday, March 2, 2012 9:23 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

trigger is plausible, but v difficult to demonstrate.

― catbus otm (gbx), Friday, March 2, 2012 10:02 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

gbx otm. that's the thing, all sorts of things can trigger all sorts of things in a hazy, "nothing's impossible" sort of way, but unless you can defensibly demonstrate that stimulus a really is triggering condition b, then it's irresponsible to suggest that there's any relationship between the two.

― Totes le Héros (contenderizer), Friday, March 2, 2012 4:08 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i absolutely agree with both of you. My friend I referenced studies, works and lives with autistic children so im pretty hesitant to doubt her opinion off the bat. She also thinks jenny mcwhatever is a crazy fuck who is responsible for riddling our population with fatal pediatric diseases/disorders. We do joking give JMAC props for being the only person in the world to cure a child of autism.

Back to triggers. Totally hard to pin down but I do believe the biology/genetics have to be there in the first place though. This is an opinion ive had from a very young age (older half brother and his mother both schizophrenics) and Ive seen little evidence to sway my beliefs on this one. Do I believe vaccines 'give' children ASD. No fucking way.

i had no idea there was a chicken pox vac till this thread

i dont have kids tho fyi

pretty sure youre not seahorse either gradski so its cool.

mookie my cousin was staying with us over summer vacation and suddenly broke out. my mom grabbed all 4 kids and hauled as to the docs. On the docs advice my bro, other cousin and i all got vaccinated that day.

i had no idea there was a chicken pox vac till this thread

me either. i had it when i was nine -- in the summer, of course. one of my eyes was swollen shut.

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?showall=true&bookmarkedmessageid=717242&boardid=77&threadid=90

thank u

http://i26.tinypic.com/2udyu5e.jpg

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/04/donald_trump_versus_vaccination.php

oh great

Do you think any vaccine deniers will see this and think, "Wait, that hideous bozo who ran for president on the birther ticket agrees that vaccines cause autism? Maybe I should rethink my stance…"

Because I bet they won't do that.

they will think "even an idiot like Donald Trump can see that vaccines cause autism"

Confirmation bias and motivated reasoning, the story of this thread. And over-media-saturated modernity, come to think of it.

http://jennymccarthybodycount.com

whoa

http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny_McCarthy_Body_Count/Home.html

― Event Horizon (Nicole), Wednesday, 8 April 2009 13:16 (3 years ago) Bookmark

oh.

Number of parents who have cured their child's autism: 1

w/r/t staggered immunization schedules

so this:

This is the schedule:
2 months: DTaP, Rotavirus
3 months*: Pc, HIB
4 months: DTaP, Rotavirus
5 months*: Pc, HIB
6 months: DTaP, Rotavirus
7 months*: Pc, HIB
9 months: Polio (IPV)
12 months: Mumps, Polio (IPV) (See 3rd UPDATE)
15 months: Pc, HIB
18 months: DTaP, Chickenpox
2 years: Rubella, Polio (IPV) (See 3rd UPDATE)
2 1/2 years*: Hep B, Hep A (start Hep B at birth if any close relatives or caregivers have Hep B)
3 years: Hep B, Measles (See 3rd UPDATE)
3 1/2 years*: Hep B, Hep A
4 years: DTaP, Polio (IPV)
5 years: MMR
6 years: Chickenpox
12 years: Tdap, HPV
12 years, 2 months*: HPV
13 years: HPV, Meningococcal (once Meningococcal vaccine is approved for age 2, Dr. Sears will move it there and delay Hep B by 6 months)

if i can blithely simplify the arguments for and against, then i'll just take the next two bits of commentary

*t: They are split up and spaced out to lessen adverse reactions and if there is one you have a better idea of which vaccine caused it.

asf: B-b-but that is the Sears schedule! The same schedule that doesn't result in HepB vac until 2.5 and the first measles shots until 3?!?

(BLOVIATING BELOW, BE WARNED)

*t:

spacing out vaccines really shouldn't lessen adverse reactions. "adverse reactions" are often thought to be the product of Too Much Stuff In The Kid's Body, but they're really not. as kate pointed out, any given babe's antigenic load (ie - all the stuff they eat and inhale and put in their stupid lil mouths and rubs in their cute lil eyes and w/e) is enormous when compared to the trifling amount of antigen introduced by one, or several, vaccines.

i'll gloss the difference between live/killed (nb no one ever says "dead," prob because ppl would get even more skeeved by vaccines).

which is to say, you're not more likely to spike a fever or get a rash or, god forbid, get truly ill from six vaccines than you are from one. the immunological processes that make vaccines work are operating independently from one another (as far as we know); there are no good guys and bad guys, there are simply guys that aren't supposed to be here in the blood. rotavirus is not conspiring with varicella, and the cops tracking them down work for different agencies.

i am exposed to horrible viruses all day e'ryday, popping the remains of one into my arm isn't ~necessarily~ going to throw the ecosystem out of whack. and real-deal trials have shown this to be true: adverse reactions to vaccine happen, sometimes, and most (like MOST) of the time they are pretty benign. kid gets a fever and a decorative rash, cries a lot, you don't sleep, but the world still spins on its axis.

all of which is to say (and i hope i was not condescending or anything): a bunch of vaccines at the same time really isn't, in any real-deal clinical sense, more likely to give a life- or function-threatening reaction than a vaccine given in isolation.

what an extended series of vaccines will, guaranteed, result in, is a) more trips to the doctor, and b) more pokes in a kiddo. which they hate.

as for isolating which vaccine caused the reaction. i get that a parent would want to know the name and address of the offender that made their kid upset and uncomfortable for a few days, but to science and the world at large, it straight up doesn't matter in the least. no vaccine gets introduced to the schedule without going through controlled trials (ie - it gets vetted in isolation), so uncovering the fact that it was the _____ that gave yr baby problems isn't all that useful. most of all to you. "well i guess i'll never give my baby that vaccination again!" don't worry, you won't have to, it's a vaccine. even if it happens to be a vaccine that's in a series, a mild episode of discomfort is small potatoes. ESP when the kid's older. a 5mo old with a bad cold can be heartbreaking; a 5yo with a cold is a kid with a cold. "but what if my kid gets a truly awful reaction, i need to know what did it!" in that case, the problem is larger than, and in many respects has nothing to do with, the identity of the vaccine in question.

NOW: no one should feel like an asshole or a bad parent or bad citizen or bad whatever for staggering, at least imho, but i'll get to that