Ta-Nehisi Coates Rules, The Thread

im not trying to beg the question fyi, just an aside, and as an additional aside i was unaware of the original meaning of beg the question until today, also i think i used it kinda backward there but w/e

The direct implication here is that you think he's good but he's not THAT good

I read that less as a critique of his writing than as a way of marketing him.

would be curious to hear whether he feels like explaining racism to white people has become part of his job or hes just talking abt stuff that interests him and if the whole blog xposting/commenting internet communication/feedback loop has affected how/what he chooses to write on the topic

yep, too nice by far:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/03/on-making-yourself-right/253889/

trying real hard here to follow tnc's example and not accuse certain posters of certain things that aren't true in a somewhat escalated way, but goddamn it would feel good to do so...

(and yeah, tnc's take on sncc is problematic and one-sided, to say the least, i think. but there are ways you talk about that, and there are ways that you absolutely do not talk about that [and tnc's rejection of precisely some of those ways probably informs his take on sncc, in fact])

you have followed his example in more than one way

About half finished. Damn compelling.

man I get emotionally invested in pieces like this

probably why I read so much fantasy

Hey, so does he.

"Stellar piece" understates.

i wasn't sure where exactly to post this article, but i didn't realize T-NC already had his own thread. compelling indeed. and damn long, i'll need to reread it soon...

I heard that she's hot.

yeah, i dug this piece a lot. i think he leans kinda hard on the "google searches for racism" datapoints when he really doesnt need too... otherwise so great.

that was great

I just skipped around quickly, will read the whole thing later. I'm glad he knocks down the "Clinton had it just as bad" theory. I don't expect that 10 years from now, Republicans will have smoothly made the transition to "Obama actually wasn't so bad after all."

that TNC article is really good but I honestly don't remember Obama's comments on Trayvon Martin being a turning point for the racism to pour out, that seems off to me

it definitely was

that and the geraldo hoodie segment both happened on a friday

by monday daily caller had like three "investigations" into martin's twitter/myspace accts

president's comment sure to harden certain hearts even further i'm afraid. this is going to get worse.

― goole, Friday, March 23, 2012 11:21 AM (5 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I had assumed that all that stuff was just unfolding quickly and at the same time, but it does make sense that after Obama's comment, the racist wackos would step up their efforts, because now there was a chance to tarnish Obama with anything negative uncovered (or fabricated) about Martin.

yeah I can see that. this happened pretty quickly, my memory was just that the seething rightwing racism was just bubbling underneath from the start. I'm sure TNC paid closer attention to the chronology than I did tbf.

yeah I don't remember there being any point when there wasn't at least some kind of racist bullshit floating around about the case, but I'm probably hazy

was expecting to see other thread's link to his NYT column about Obama being Cheney perfected.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/opinion/sunday/coates-obamas-perceived-transformation.html?_r=1

why are you humoring him

having the right reasons to loathe Obama at hand is convenient.

so basically your response to a long, well-argued, supported argument about the difficulty of being the black President of a racist country is to say "pshaw at that, what about the article that called him an evil white man, THAT'S the important thing we should be looking at here"

and you really are confused why people have called you a racist? fuck off

I think I missed something...

Morbs, did you even see this:

The political consequences of race extend beyond the domestic. I am, like many liberals, horrified by Obama’s embrace of a secretive drone policy, and particularly the killing of American citizens without any restraints. A president aware of black America’s tenuous hold on citizenship, of how the government has at times secretly conspired against its advancement—a black president with a broad sense of the world—should know better. Except a black president with Obama’s past is the perfect target for right-wing attacks depicting him as weak on terrorism. The president’s inability to speak candidly on race cannot be bracketed off from his inability to speak candidly on every­thing. Race is not simply a portion of the Obama story. It is the lens through which many Americans view all his politics.

But whatever the politics, a total submission to them is a disservice to the country. No one knows this better than Obama himself, who once described patriotism as more than pageantry and the scarfing of hot dogs. “When our laws, our leaders, or our government are out of alignment with our ideals, then the dissent of ordinary Americans may prove to be one of the truest expressions of patriotism,” Obama said in Independence, Missouri, in June 2008. Love of country, like all other forms of love, requires that you tell those you care about not simply what they want to hear but what they need to hear.

now I have

It's been a life-event-crap week, I am not reading long articles.

amazing piece.

xp then don't be glib about them

I'm not sure anyone but you has called me a racist, djp, but it still makes me unhappy.

the parallelism here is stunning:

No criminal charges were ever brought against Carlton Jones, the officer who killed my friend and rendered a little girl fatherless. It was as if society barely blinked. A few months later, I moved to New York. When 9/11 happened, I wanted nothing to do with any kind of patriotism, with the broad national ceremony of mourning. I had no sympathy for the fire­fighters, and something bordering on hatred for the police officers who had died. I lived in a country where my friend—twice as good—could be shot down mere footsteps from his family by agents of the state. God damn America, indeed.

I grew. I became a New Yorker. I came to understand the limits of anger. Watching Barack Obama crisscross the country to roaring white crowds, and then get elected president, I became convinced that the country really had changed—that time and events had altered the nation, and that progress had come in places I’d never imagined it could. When Osama bin Laden was killed, I cheered like everyone else. God damn al‑Qaeda.

"I grew" not particularly supported by the next 4 sentences.

morbz i don't know if you're a racist but if you're going to thoughtlessly kneejerk in regards to a long article about race that you can't even bother to read you might as well be

OK, sorry, off to iron my [redacted]

yeah, i dug this piece a lot. i think he leans kinda hard on the "google searches for racism" datapoints when he really doesnt need too... otherwise so great.
--max

this rly bothered me cause i read the academic paper when someone posted it on here and it was so so awful.

iirc Utah was the 'least racist state'

and he doesnt need to use it, either! like here

The resentment is not confined to Republicans. Earlier this year, West Virginia gave 41 percent of the popular vote during the Democratic primary to Keith Judd, a white incarcerated felon (Judd actually defeated Obama in 10 counties). Joe Manchin, one of West Virginia’s senators, and Earl Ray Tomblin, its governor, are declining to attend this year’s Democratic convention, and will not commit to voting for Obama.

It is often claimed that Obama’s unpopularity in coal-­dependent West Virginia stems from his environmental policies. But recall that no state ranked higher on Seth Stephens-­Davidowitz’s racism scale than West Virginia. Moreover, Obama was unpopular in West Virginia before he became president: even at the tail end of the Democratic primaries in 2008, Hillary Clinton walloped Obama by 41 points. A fifth of West Virginia Democrats openly professed that race played a role in their vote.

why use the garbage google data when w virginians are openly admitting they voted for the white lady over the black guy b/c he was black

yeah for real

judging a state's level of racism by the number of 'racist search terms typed into google' seems problematic

http://observer.com/2013/03/fear-of-a-black-pundit/

he failed 11th grade english?

'he was not a great speller'

lol david carr

why did the Observer write it that way? on page 2 he says race isn't his main subject. it seems weird to write a feature that ignores (dismisses?) what the writer says about his own work. like the article was mostly done and the quotes that came in didn't fit the framing, oh well, put them at the end

I had assumed he'd stay at The Atlantic until the NYT made an offer, so I was most surprised to read that he could've had a regular NYT column and turned it down!

the rumor is that the editorial page editor took him out to dinner and was such a prick that tnc soured on the whole idea

hah - that might explain telling another reporter about saying no to the offer. does this whole observer piece read differently from inside nyc media world than it does outside it? (does anyone outside it pay attention?)

haha i doubt anyone outside that world is reading an observer profile about an atlantic writer!

fwiw i think it's fair to make your own conclusions about what a writer is 'abt' rather than going by what he says. race may not "define" him but it's obviously a recurring motif

he was not a great speller'

Oh and BTW

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/03/how-the-quiet-car-explains-the-world/273885/