(I mean: as a hack by trade and psychology student by choice, I've just spent a whole day ploughing through research articles and the one thing I can say is that even a 20-page report can miss out salient facts. So although there are myriad holes in that Mail piece, in terms of crunching down a piece of research into a couple of hundred non-academic words, it's pretty fucking good. If it turns out to be misrepresenting the study completely, of course, I shall stand corrected.)
xpost
it seems like...not even the worst kind of health-related fearmongering, because it's too out-there for that
Dude, read the fucking article then. It is based on a piece of potentially valid research.
― Special topics: Disco, The Common Market (grimly fiendish), Thursday, 8 January 2009 16:46 (fifteen years ago) link
Researchers showed 100 men with autistic children pictures of curvy women, women with athletic frames and more rounded women and found that they do not have a preference on which figure they find more attractive.
The new research from the University of Bath suggests that fathers of autistic children do not share the preference of men across the world for the curvier woman.
this really does seem quite o_O tho
― Timezilla vs Mechadistance (blueski), Thursday, 8 January 2009 17:12 (fifteen years ago) link
So headline should read:
Men who prefer non-curvy women might be fathers to autistic children.
― Mark G, Thursday, 8 January 2009 17:15 (fifteen years ago) link
"My son has autism, I'm afraid I cannot look at curves with pleasure anymore"
Yes, welcome to experimental psychology.
Men who prefer non-curvy women might be fathers to autistic children
Hah, no: they showed no preference for any figure. "Men who don't conform to arguable global norm for what heterosexual males find attractive" is a bit unwieldy for a headline, though.
What's there isn't an elegant headline, either, I agree. I can see why they chose it, though.
― Special topics: Disco, The Common Market (grimly fiendish), Thursday, 8 January 2009 17:21 (fifteen years ago) link
AutiDads love Posh More.
there. Fixed.
― Mark G, Thursday, 8 January 2009 17:23 (fifteen years ago) link
Taking it further...
Dads of autistic children do not want more kids, so are attracted to females that look less childbearing types...?
― Mark G, Thursday, 8 January 2009 17:38 (fifteen years ago) link
Couldn't the headline have just as easily read "Men who don't find athletic women attractive could father children with autism?"
p.s. I have neither read the article nor the supporting materials.
― He's like a big coloured steamroller (Ned Trifle II), Thursday, 8 January 2009 17:43 (fifteen years ago) link
I mean, why pick on curvy women when the men didn;t state a preference? That's typical DM o_O surely?
― He's like a big coloured steamroller (Ned Trifle II), Thursday, 8 January 2009 17:44 (fifteen years ago) link
It could, but the point is that there's cross-cultural support for the curvy stereotype, based on the "ideal" waist-hip ratio of 0.7 (Singh, 1993, I think), so there is a reason for mentioning curves. As you'd know if you'd read the piece (gah, I can't believe I'm sticking up for the Mail).
Not really, no. For the love of all that is decent, read the piece before you start posting, dudes.
― Special topics: Disco, The Common Market (grimly fiendish), Thursday, 8 January 2009 17:47 (fifteen years ago) link
100 men seems like a very small sample size. I'm a bit more worried about the oestrogen/health stuff and this idea the writer seems to have about autism being similar to brain damage and something that crops up randomly when parents have bad health or put bad things into their kids bodies, it's the same logic they use when they reckon autism is caused by MMR and mercury, and that stuff was all bollocks.
― ‽, Thursday, 8 January 2009 17:49 (fifteen years ago) link
Ok, read it now.
Dr Mark Brosnan and Dr Ian Walker from the university's Department of Psychology found that as a group the fathers of autistic children didn't all go for the same figure as their most attractive choice.
Hmmm. I really think we may to read the whole thing. It doesn't seem to be quite as clear cut as the DM is making it.
OH REALLY, you say.
― He's like a big coloured steamroller (Ned Trifle II), Thursday, 8 January 2009 17:56 (fifteen years ago) link
http://i44.tinypic.com/jfev6u.jpg
― StanM, Thursday, 8 January 2009 17:58 (fifteen years ago) link
100 men seems like a very small sample size
It's probably (sadly?) about average for such a study.
this idea the writer seems to have about autism being similar to brain damage
Plenty of studies link autism to brain "damage" of some kind; hellfire, one of the most convincing new theories on unipolar depression suggests that's actually linked in some way to a structurally abnormal brain. Plenty of studies link it to all sorts of things. That's the point: there isn't a pathology of autism yet. This is why research exists.
something that crops up randomly when parents have bad health or put bad things into their kids bodies
What evidence are you using for this, anyway? Can you quote the actual text that states this, or are you basing this reading on your own assumptions about how the Daily Mail often presents such stories? (Which, I'll admit, are usually fucking shocking.)
― Special topics: Disco, The Common Market (grimly fiendish), Thursday, 8 January 2009 17:58 (fifteen years ago) link
It doesn't seem to be quite as clear cut as the DM is making it
Well, of course it isn't -- this is a very short newspaper article, while (I'd hope!) that what Brosnan and Walker are doing is a tightly controlled experiment. My point, though, is that going "TUT DAILY MAIL HEADLINES WHATEVER NEXT" without actually reading the piece isn't constructive.
Although why I'm wasting time defending the Daily Mail, I really don't know.
― Special topics: Disco, The Common Market (grimly fiendish), Thursday, 8 January 2009 18:00 (fifteen years ago) link
one of the most convincing new theories on unipolar depression suggests that's actually linked in some way to a structurally abnormal brain
Actually, I wish I'd not written that because it'll be misconstrued, and I'm falling into my own trap of trying to explain something staggeringly complex using very few words. My fundamental point still stands, though: autism could well be linked (NB: correlation, not causality!) to structural "defects" in the brain.
― Special topics: Disco, The Common Market (grimly fiendish), Thursday, 8 January 2009 18:03 (fifteen years ago) link
My. I went off and made some soup there (very nice, since you ask: fennel and potato with lemon, and a gremolata topping) and expected to come back to a minor clusterfuck. Anyway, I should be toiling over an essay, but because I am the KING OF PROCRASTINATION ...
Autism could well be linked (NB: correlation, not causality!) to structural "defects" in the brain
... a little light reading on that subject for anyone who's interested, in no particular order.
Carper, R A Carper and Courchesne, E (2000). Inverse correlation between frontal lobe and cerebellum sizes in children with autism. Brain, 123 (4), 836-844. (Various other Courchesne papers consider a similar hypothesis.)
Dawson G, Webb SJ, Wijsman E, Schellenberg G, Estes A, Munson J, Faja S (2005). Neurocognitive and electrophysiological evidence of altered face processing in parents of children with autism: implications for a model of abnormal development of social brain circuitry in autism. Dev Psychopathol, 17, 679–697.
Wicker, B (2008). New Insights from Neuroimaging into the Emotional Brain in Autism. In E McGregor, M Núñez, K Cebula and J Carlos Gómez (Eds). Autism: An Integrated View from Neurocognitive, Clinical and Intervention Research. Malden, Mass; Oxford: Blackwell. (Actually: if you want to criticise the Brosnan and Walker study for being "quite o_O", I'd suggest you read that entire book first.)
Sparks, B F, and a fucking shitload of others (2002). Brain structural abnormalities in young children with autism spectrum disorder. Neurology, 59, 184-192.
Haas, R, and, again, more others than I can be arsed rearranging into author/initial format (1996). Neurologic abnormalities in infantile autism. Journal of Child Neurology, 11 (2), 84-92.
Now, shall we look at some studies considering autism and genetic predisposition/hormonal influences? Is that a resounding "no, shut the fuck up, Grimly?" Suits me fine.
― Special topics: Disco, The Common Market (grimly fiendish), Thursday, 8 January 2009 19:43 (fifteen years ago) link
Has he gone?
OK, back to the Mail and it's crazy URLs.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1109882/Man-created-Barbie-Ken-dolls-kinky-swinger-manic-need-sexual-gratification.html
― He's like a big coloured steamroller (Ned Trifle II), Thursday, 8 January 2009 20:40 (fifteen years ago) link
‘When Jack talked about creating Barbie it was like listening to somebody talk about a sexual episode, almost like listening to a sexual pervert,’ Ryan’s friend, Stephen Gnass told the author.
Almost.
― He's like a big coloured steamroller (Ned Trifle II), Thursday, 8 January 2009 20:42 (fifteen years ago) link
Quite, em, compulsive level of detail there, grimly. I prefer my scaremongering lower on facts, higher on sheer panic, please. Here's Warning over 'third-hand smoke'. Not from the Mail, but it might as well be
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 8 January 2009 20:46 (fifteen years ago) link
I AM BACK. Actually, no, I'm still looking for innovative new ways to not start writing. Drinking BEER has helped. Shit.
As always, the URL is WAY more interesting than the story, which is desperately dull. Filling in the blanks myself, I was hoping for something like: "Man created Barbie and Ken dolls to amuse friends at kinky swinger parties for manic depressives in need of plastic toys to achieve sexual gratification". Which would have been so much better.
I really want to know if those are being generated automatically or not. I shall endeavour to find out.
― Special topics: Disco, The Common Market (grimly fiendish), Thursday, 8 January 2009 20:47 (fifteen years ago) link
Quite, em, compulsive level of detail there, grimly
Heheheh. I think it's served its purpose.
― Special topics: Disco, The Common Market (grimly fiendish), Thursday, 8 January 2009 20:48 (fifteen years ago) link
Back on the light bulb tip, it's quite funny being reminded in the Guardian that twelve months ago, the Daily Mail were giving away free energy-saving bulbs and encouraging people to change.
― Yehudi Menudo (NickB), Monday, 12 January 2009 13:30 (fifteen years ago) link
lol i thought it was a myth that people in the all 'respect' the mail for its vaunted professionalism
A bitter, disillusioned sub writes: while knocking a story into shape last night, I needed to check when a particular dude was knighted, and chanced upon a relevant article from the Mail. Said article spelled said dude's name two different ways in the space of 100 words ...
... neither of which was actually correct.
― Special topics: Disco, The Common Market (grimly fiendish), Saturday, 17 January 2009 15:22 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1129978/How-faceless-amoral-world-cyberspace-created-deeply-disturbing--generation-SEX.html
I would srsly buy a drink - maybe two - for whoever came up w/ the idea of having the URLs read like this
― I'm Throwing Small Arms Around Powys (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 16:44 (fifteen years ago) link
that mother & daughter pic is quite something
― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 16:48 (fifteen years ago) link
How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.
― Mare Street tour guide (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 16:50 (fifteen years ago) link
Marcello?
― talk me down off the (ledge), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 16:52 (fifteen years ago) link
It's 1954 in my house!
- mrs B, cleveland, usa, 28/1/2009 3:15 Click to rate Rating 27
― I'm Throwing Small Arms Around Powys (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 16:53 (fifteen years ago) link
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/28/article-1130015-0337DB90000005DC-374_468x532.jpgEngland coach Fabio Capello checks out a new kind of strip on Italian TV
― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 16:56 (fifteen years ago) link
who's that being Obamafied in the background?
― O Supermanchiros (blueski), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 16:56 (fifteen years ago) link
Looks like Gianlucca Vialli to me.
― zero learnt from nero (Neil S), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 16:59 (fifteen years ago) link
Remember that Hilaire Belloc cautionary tale - Matilda told such dreadful lies, it made one gasp and stretch one’s eyes? I used to love it as a child when telling lies was one of the naughtiest things you could do: Matilda ended up getting burned to death.
― Seriously, though, the answer is - change society. (stevie), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 17:02 (fifteen years ago) link
Good of the Daily Mail to include a clip from Skins, despite it not being mentioned anywhere in the article, for anyone wondering what 'teenage promiscuity' might look like, without having to search for it online themselves.
― chord simple (j.o.n.a), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 17:11 (fifteen years ago) link
12-year-olds today have seen raunchier stuff on the internet today than most 40-year-olds have seen in their entire lives.
Chew on that for awhile. Your 12-year-old has seen "Two Girls, One Cup" - and that ain't getting erased.
― I'm Throwing Small Arms Around Powys (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 17:24 (fifteen years ago) link
Chew on 2G1C for a while
― I'm Throwing Small Arms Around Powys (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 17:25 (fifteen years ago) link
Pretty sure our boy hasn't seen 2 Girls, 1 Cup. He thought the posters for Sex Drive were too rude to be on the side of a bus.
― Theo Wankcott (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 17:29 (fifteen years ago) link
Prudle Vague Jr. more like
― O Supermanchiros (blueski), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 17:42 (fifteen years ago) link
Shameful Lawless Internet is full of raunchy XXX rated child-endangering pictures like these: (pic) (pic) (pic) (pic) (pic) (pic)
― StanM, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 17:45 (fifteen years ago) link
First 12 comments all from the US there.
― Architect of the Geocities (Raw Patrick), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 18:17 (fifteen years ago) link
If morality is subjective then why not live it up? If God is dead all things are lawful. If there is no God why not let sex be your god and use as many other humans as possible to fulfill ones personal pleasures. Darwin taught us the survival of the fittest right?
― Architect of the Geocities (Raw Patrick), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 18:24 (fifteen years ago) link
Workplace harrassment: 12 women's sizzling hot tales!
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 28 January 2009 18:31 (fifteen years ago) link
too shit; didn't read
― Special topics: Disco, The Common Market (grimly fiendish), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 22:32 (fifteen years ago) link
You were right not to do so.DM comments always full of Americans and ex-pats.
― The Unbelievably Insensitive Baroness Vadera (Ned Trifle II), Wednesday, 28 January 2009 23:02 (fifteen years ago) link
It turns out that it was the Walkman that has broken Britain, according to not-at-all-crazy AN Wilson.
― zero learnt from nero (Neil S), Sunday, 17 May 2009 14:17 (fourteen years ago) link
Exposing your ear drums to badly mixed rock music
Scik Mouthy?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1183011/AMANDA-PLATELL-Insults-betray-bigotry-gay-zealots.html
I really don't want to look at the comments section there, but it's so tempting. Can someone confirm that it's as bad as you'd imagine? (Poor little girl, staring wistfully into the distance, wishing for a real mummy and daddy.)
― Like, (Expletive) my (expletive). (Merdeyeux), Sunday, 17 May 2009 14:34 (fourteen years ago) link
The gay rights lobby should remember that not everyone who opposes gay adoption is a narrow-minded redneck
Pictures or it didn't happen
― Jimmy Pursey Thrower (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 17 May 2009 14:35 (fourteen years ago) link
adam and eve not adam and steve
― zero learnt from nero (Neil S), Sunday, 17 May 2009 14:48 (fourteen years ago) link
The plugs that go into the ears are a wonderful source of bacteria so unless they are sterilised before each use they are a germ playground.
― Ant Attack.. (Ste), Sunday, 17 May 2009 15:11 (fourteen years ago) link
I really don't want to look at the comments section there, but it's so tempting. Can someone confirm that it's as bad as you'd imagine? (
First comment.
don't know the research and I am not homophobic but it is only common sense that tells me children must surely have a better chance in life with a married heterosexual couple and that is who they should be put with.
- Expat Andi, Dubai UAE,
― Brandy Frotte and Reel De La St-Jean (Ned Trifle II), Sunday, 17 May 2009 16:31 (fourteen years ago) link
Unless you’re gay, black, transgender, foreign, voted Remain, unemployed, work for the BBC, a single parent, feminist, an NHS worker, Northern, vote Labour, Muslim, overweight, an educator, working class, sexually liberated, vegetarian or believe climate change exists. pic.twitter.com/XmWWSN9HBo— Nick Pettigrew (@Nick_Pettigrew) October 27, 2017
― "Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Friday, 27 October 2017 08:55 (six years ago) link
NATURE: Daily Mail readers have just found out about sequential hermaphroditism in fish and now think it’s part of the BBC political agenda. pic.twitter.com/9PtOhnMTRv— The DM Reporter (@DMReporter) October 26, 2017
― Thomas Gabriel Fischer does not endorse (aldo), Friday, 27 October 2017 09:14 (six years ago) link
A fish called pravda
― But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Friday, 27 October 2017 09:33 (six years ago) link
The Mail somehow managing to sound sarcastic even while bigging itself up on its own front page
― But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Friday, 27 October 2017 09:35 (six years ago) link
Thread by @_MarwanMuhammad: "Hello @MailOnline. I've read your "devastating" article on "illegal migrants in Saint Denis". We too in France have tabloïds who couldn't ca […]" #HardcoreInventedHardlinerVoiceModeActivated
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1025786653040889856.html
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Saturday, 4 August 2018 19:58 (five years ago) link
This is what you call a headline.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHKeyKcX0AAJb3e?format=jpg
― I Can't See Gervais In My Mind (Tom D.), Wednesday, 22 December 2021 16:41 (two years ago) link