Grimes/Claire Boucher thread

stay in school if you want to kiw gukbe folks

I think the rhythm programming on this is excellent actually. A little bit rough-sounding but not actually rough in the sense of lacking nuance or finesse - basically this is just because Grimes is not observing the post-dubstep/minimal orthodoxy of hyper-clipped drum hits. I think she likes the slightly-degraded texture of fuller electronic drums.

dudes, there are garageband presets all over this record (synths too). not that that's inherently a bad thing - it's a tool like anything else, she's making choices, etc. but out of all the reasons to listen to this record (the vocals, the writing, personality), sound design is at the bottom of the list.

but out of all the reasons to listen to this record (the vocals, the writing, personality), sound design is at the bottom of the list.

i dunno about that. unique sound sources /= good sound design.

Having seen that Grimes video where she plays the black keys exclusively, I'm kinda curious whether most/all of her tunes are in C♭ major or A♭ minor (the black key diatonic scales).

using presets or garageband is fine, and you can make it your own, i just don't think the record sounds that interesting.

I don't really care about where the sounds come from.

It's not like most house beats or dubstep beats or etc sound unique.

Oh hey everyone what did I miss

ILX tearing itself apart over a 6/10 album

Unsurprising.

It's not like most house beats or dubstep beats or etc sound unique.

sure (except for the ones that do). i'd just be surprised if the beats & sounds were the reason someone was attracted to this record.

imo the reason to be attracted to this album is how she uses her voice as a background sound effect/adornment

otoh a reason to be repelled from this album is the interminable cooing babydoll voice she puts on seemingly through 500% of it

i love when she goes into that super-high deniece williams falsetto

the cooing babydoll shit didn't repel me as much as i thought it would but it's definitely a reason that i don't think she'll ever connect with me properly

her falsetto is astonishing, which really makes the cooing that much more irritating to me

it's like all of those Mariah singles with that fucking grating whisper voice where you're like "gtfo with that and start singing"

i know right

haha basically it's the inverse of the tUnE-yArDs album

Having seen that Grimes video where she plays the black keys exclusively, I'm kinda curious whether most/all of her tunes are in C♭ major or A♭ minor (the black key diatonic scales).

smh

http://stereogum.com/962491/deconstructing-grimes/news/

julianne escobedo shepherd goes innnnn

and i'm so glad she did cuz she articulates a lot of the reasons i can't connect w/grimes better than i could

yeah, that's a good piece, and like the author, i'm finding the album as a whole pretty unrewarding. i still enjoy the songs that initially attracted me, especially "oblivion" and "be a body", but most of the rest drift past in a gauzy blur. i don't get any clear sense of the performer's identity, and je shepherd otm in that roboticism is only interesting when it has something human to catch in its gears.

I would disagree with the article's contention that Grimes tries to sound less human than her analogues and contemporaries.

A different kind of humanness perhaps.

Like, this sounds like it would be true (and as a skewering of broad brush stroke positive crit probably is true):

"Grimes seems bent on negating her humanness and operating from robot zone, herself. Yet others who’ve embarked on such pursuits — Bjork, for example — have recognized the paradoxical intertwining between nature’s ether and that of the web. Grimes’ music feels like it’s operating in a vacuum, and while internet-referencing internet music is zeitgeistical, eventually the vacuum’s gonna run out of air."

But it misrepresents or ignores the strong sense of humanness that runs through a lot of these tracks, especially in the second half (and especially especially "Skin", which is actually going for almost the exact same altered-humanness vibe as Vespertine, albeit with slightly different sonic reference points). To my ears Boucher's use of a variety of different voices is intended precisely to capture the multivalency (and the internal conflictedness, and the being-with-yourself) of human experience.

As is often the case with such articles this feels like a good, targeted attack on Grimes as she is described in tumblrs and less so w/r/t what Grimes' music actually does.

In this regard the parallels (or inverted-parallels... is there a word for that?) with Lana Del Ray are interesting.

But it misrepresents or ignores the strong sense of humanness that runs through a lot of these tracks, especially in the second half (and especially especially "Skin", which is actually going for almost the exact same altered-humanness vibe as Vespertine, albeit with slightly different sonic reference points). To my ears Boucher's use of a variety of different voices is intended precisely to capture the multivalency (and the internal conflictedness, and the being-with-yourself) of human experience.

yeah, but a "strong sense of humanness" isn't something that exists outside our varying perceptions of it. what you hear as "human experience", i hear as freeze-dried cotton candy: lovely, but frustratingly insubstantial.

Too often when I read these kind of "take-down" pieces I find them utterly flimsy and gauzy, and directed not at the artists themselves, but this take-down of the endless reflecting chamber of blog/tumblr posts, and given that I hardly engage with that at all, it is less than meaningless to me. I don't listen to blogs. I want to tell them to get off the internet and engage with something that isn't endless critculure.

I don't hear a robot-ness to her voice at all. a transbody mysticism that isn't sensual enough for some maybe... but I think there's still a warmth there, an assuring Platonic kindness.

I think the article probably has a bias for a brand of feminism that favors sexuality-as-power, and maybe Grimes is just more of a mystic, isn't trying to progress through a combative politics but through some other means

JES's criticisms along the lines of thin/charmless/unemotional/infantilised are the ones that ring true for me - yeah this is personal preference to an extent, i much prefer (female? alt?) artists to reach out and grab me and make me feel like i have no choice but to listen; or if they're introverted, i tend to really enjoy the ones that are very still and meditative; and grimes fits neither of those descriptions. but i can't find anything else in there at all - THIN is exactly it, and it doesn't register emotionally at all.

yeah, but a "strong sense of humanness" isn't something that exists outside our varying perceptions of it. what you hear as "human experience", i hear as freeze-dried cotton candy: lovely, but frustratingly insubstantial.

sure but if that's the case then the real argumentative thrust of the article kind of falls over beyond the more limited (and hence perfectly legitimate, though admittedly difficult to build a hit-baiting "takedown" around) claims you and lex are making w/r/t not personally being into the sound of her voice and not being able to forge an emotional connection with it.

That's different to saying "Grimes' problem is that she fetishises the robot and forgets to be human in the process."

i like JES a ton, but that article was full of strawmen. tim f otm.

I want to tell them to get off the internet and engage with something that isn't endless critculure.

ironically this is the same thing JES is telling grimes to do

that jes thing is really well written but i had to stop after she tried to apply grimes' opinion about mariah carey to grimes' own artistic pursuits

feels like a disingenuous, forced connection

i say that as someone who initially held lex's view of the record and then realized last week that it is the gothy freestyle record i have always deserved

haha

There are so many reasons one could dislike Grimes. I was excited to see them articulated, but this piece was just bizarrely off base. This part in particular:

Grimes seems bent on negating her humanness and operating from robot zone, herself.

Really? She sounds like a robot? She negates her humanness? You might not like her personality, but how can you accuse her of not having one? If anything, I thought people found her personality overbearing.

Yet others who’ve embarked on such pursuits — Bjork, for example — have recognized the paradoxical intertwining between nature’s ether and that of the web. Grimes’ music feels like it’s operating in a vacuum, and while internet-referencing internet music is zeitgeistical, eventually the vacuum’s gonna run out of air.

Come again?

Of course, Grimes’ cyborg unicorn stance is an updated ideal on the continuum of the asexuality that a certain strain of indie rock values, up to and including twee.

In what world does this album lack sexuality? Grimes dwells constantly on physical contact ("Skin," "Be A Body"). And she sings in orgasmic squeals.

oh yeah i also stopped reading because of the word "zeitgeistical"

Grimes has a host of recent-vintage contemporaries who approach their music with a similar concept, like Lykke Li and Fever Ray and Bat For Lashes and even fellow blog star Charli XCX, all of whom do similarly conceptualized music but tap into their womanhood and sexuality as a source of power, some might say THE DARK ARTS OF WOMANNESS.

This is just terrible writing and impossible to take seriously.

My problem with it is that the writer fails to recognize the paradoxical intertwining between nature’s ether and that of the web, unlike others who've embarked on such pursuits.

And she sings in orgasmic squeals.

lot of squealing on this album, not a moment of it sounds "orgasmic", thankfully

and her dwelling on the physical never actually reads as physical. upthread enya comparisons otm. the language might suggest physicality, but the music and performance deny this. closest thing to a body here is the hiccup in the "oblivion" loop.

I think there may be some yearning for the physical, but as far as its presence it's kind of floating as a figment within, or sharing the same space with a more spectral reality. like how people live lives with one foot in the physical and one foot in this non-place/space/everywhere which all kind of shares the same space (and in the case of the online, your personality/humanness kind of floats there as an ethereal presence - I think her voice works in the music like this - liquified humanity floating in a digital everyspace)

sorry, that could have been written more clearly (a comma between 'everywhere' and 'which' would help)... just waking up here.

basically just meaning to say there that her human presence registers the way personality registers online, there's still a human presence hovering there but some of the things that come with physical interaction/presence are gone or diminished. although I personally still feel her music reflects the balance, or coexistence, of online and offline life, culture and humanity seeping into online space

strongly resistant of the temptation to read this album as being "about" online identity, even if that's the artist's explicit intent. just don't see this theme convincingly or compellingly developed in the music/lyrics themselves, and though it's an interesting lens to try on, it could apply equally well to almost any electronic/low affect/alienated/disembodied music.

it's not that I see it as being directly about online identity, as much as it's just coming from that reality. I get this picture of a faint, slightly bewildered humanity still trying to connect and find ways to live out its humanness in a rotating topology of some Information Sublime

Chris S's posts are great; and I think they speak to how substantial Boucher's songwriting is, even if she downplays its importance

Totally agree with contenderizer, too. These songs aren't about online identity. That's just lazy writers' way of framing them based on something cool she said in an interview once

I mean, "post-internet" is a cool way of contextualizing these songs, but if that's your only takeaway from them, you need to do less reading and more listening

i don't really feel like grimes succeeds in conveying what her songs are "about" at all - not that she should have to but it's why they feel somewhat thin and empty to me. don't get a sense of physicality or otherwise, it doesn't evoke much of anything, certainly nothing about identity let alone post-internet identity.

i certainly don't need it be about anything, beyond an interesting voice & some good ideas

i agree that the whole "post-tumblr" thing is ridiculous, but it's just press copy, doesn't affect how i hear the music

well demanding a song be "about" "something" "specific" is ridiculous yeah, but music should certainly evoke something, put something in mind, even if it's just an image or colour or whatever, and that's what i don't get from grimes music - it's flat, it's literally just sound.

tbh I totally experience all those things in the music - post-internet identity (in her presence and in the flow of influences, and stuff about 'being a body' etc in the face of all this). the slight thinness, 'emptiness' to her voice (although it has a lot of substance/emotional resonance for me, but there is certainly a faintness/ethereal quality) is a part of this too - to my experience of it at least

My sense of this album is that its intimacy feels internalised, as if Boucher is singing to herself (I'm using "to" in a strong sense here - like she's addressing herself) and the listener is posited as the part of her being sung to.

My reaction may be slightly overdetermined by how much she reminds me of Happy Rhodes in electronic mode - both vocally (with the high portion of Happy's register anyway) and musically, but also thematically - there's a kind of dasein vibe at work, which is maybe why so many of the songs also seem to be about the creative process itself, music about its own making (and perhaps as a general rule if you're not really enamoured of a musician's creative process then any oblique odes to it will seem to be about "nothing).

My sense of this album is that its intimacy feels internalised, as if Boucher is singing to herself (I'm using "to" in a strong sense here - like she's addressing herself) and the listener is posited as the part of her being sung to.

...there's a kind of dasein vibe at work, which is maybe why so many of the songs also seem to be about the creative process itself, music about its own making

again, those are intriguing concepts, but i don't think they're strongly present in grimes' music/lyrics - at least no more so than in lots of other music. i mean, "dasein vibe" suggests so much, but specifically attaches to so little. grimes' songs tend to be less about doing than being, but that's as far as i can follow that train of thought wr2 what i actually hear here.

intimacy is a strange and loaded word in any context. i've realized recently that the quality i like best in several of the 2011 albums i was initially exposed to in the year-end poll thread is a quality of intense intimacy (referring primarily to colin stetson's new history warfare 2, julia holter's tragedy, king creosote & john hopkins' diamond mine and nicholas jaar's space is only noise). there's something a bit sickly and even oppressive about that kind of intimacy, an unfiltered, unmediated engagement that verges on oversharing. when you're close enough to hear the tongue moving in someone's mouth, see the contractions and dilations of their pupils, you might be too close for comfort. i don't get that sense at all from grimes, and therefore it's hard for me to think of her music as particularly "intimate". which perhaps does raise questions about what intimacy might be in a dephysicalized, delocated context, but i don't think this album really addresses them.