things you're secretly kinda libertariany about

marketing campaign to turn unused NYC subway and sewer tunnels into 21st century artists' lofts
art supplies restricted for wastefulness (oops)

new TV production banned, all citizens have to watch media projected from a central location onto night-time clouds. No clouds, tough shit.

wow I had no idea raising the gas tax would have so many unforeseen consequences

no, this is the libertarian thread, you have to pose it as not subsidizing roads or subsidizing gasoline

Just spitballing ways to save the planet.

makes you think

haha

I go to a conference call and this place turns venomous. Waaahhh happen?

tbh, though, the effects from denying healthcare to the elderly is probably not that far off from designing policies to either uproot people or make living where they do untenable - going to be a lot of holdouts fighting back or dying off
and killing off old people would undeniably be good for the environment, whereas herding people together generally hasn't been

whereas herding people together generally hasn't been

Do you...have anything to support this or are you just mad now?

yeah now that i think about it probably better to just leave things as they are

milo

you are continuing on this path as if ppl have been arguing against your ideas to kill off (note- think about a better euphemism for this) nearlydeads, when tbf nobody is fighting you on these vital reforms

Do I have any evidence that urbanization (partic. rapid urbanization) isn't good for the environment?
Sure: the Industrial Revolution. Contemporary China.

I'm not mad, I just think iatee's views - or at least his ways of stating them - are tailor-made for reductio ad absurdum, in that they start off on the absurd continuum.

'raise taxes on things that cause global warming'?

Seriously - if iatee were more serious about needing radical ideas to save the world (rather than, as noted, wanting the NYC he loves), he would be encouraging agrarianism and population reduction. Mankind is never quite so sustainable as when it needs the farmland directly beneath its feet to survive.

why do people think I love nyc so much

killing off old people would undeniably be good for the environment

Wha? Old people don't reproduce. They have few years left to consume resources. They eat like birds. It's you young 'uns who will be vigorously spawning all those ravenous children, demanding ice cream and Gameboys, and ruining the planet for the next century!

I don't even own a I <3 ny shirt

my vision of the future is locking everyone into densely-packed urban gulag camps where only billionaires can afford to do anything more than 20 blocks away from their residence, including work.

― iatee, Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:31 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Do you own a I 8====) NY shirt?

why do people think I love nyc so much

well consider the possibility that climate change will make it worse

no

iatee wants to ruin the yokels' lives... to save them!!!!

Set up another round of tornados, floods, hurricanes, and droughts for everyone! They're on the house!

Climate change and other human impacts are going to make things worse, and (TMI) combine to be the reason I don't think I ever want to have kids. I don't want to bring people into a world where their kids probably won't get to experience seafood (as a minor example) or maintain a comfortable existence at all.
But making life shittier for most people right now - but in a way that won't effect structural change - is kinda dumb and punitive toward people for having the lives they were born into. And is clearly unrealistic to boot, since no one will buy in. Like I said, ideas about sustainability that accept the size of the US and its population (encouraging mass transit in any mid-sized city, better and faster rail networks, governments actively teaching people to grow some of their own food when possible) are a lot more valuable.

are you suuuuuuuure that raising taxes on things that contribute to global warming "wont effect structural change"

we're having a hell of a time getting buy-in on mass transit in mid-size cities and faster rail networks. i'd hate to see the reaction to the idea of "governments actively teaching people to grow some of their own food when possible"

the whole point of 'making' forms of carbon energy more expensive is that stuff like transit networks, farming and mfging processes, housing sizes, and so on, adjust or retrofit as needed

yup, mass-transit is uncompetitive in midsized cities when we build and fund its competition, gas is cheap and transit-oriented neighborhoods are illegal to build. dealing w/ those things are as important as spending more money on transit. making it difficult to drive or own a car is the best way to fund public transit.

are as important = is as important

Iatee, what do you think of cap and trade?

humanity's last hope