things you're secretly kinda libertariany about

There is no real alternative right now, that's why even good politicians have to balance concern with the future with concern for the present. But ideas that venture anywhere near making Utah and Iowa and George more sustainable are infinitely more useful than iatee's schtick.

I think most people realize that they aren't farmers

yeah you would think, but we operate w/ a policy model that sorta assumes they are

hahaha goole

take my hovercycle over to the east rivers famous dolphin-meat shack before another shift at the content mine

what are these ideas that venture near making utah and iowa and george more sustainable that don't involve people giving things up?

iirc in 2025 we get microwave power and in 2050 fusion power

I think most people realize that they aren't farmers

― (thinks and smiles) (DJP), Tuesday, February 21, 2012 2:33 PM (57 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Frances Farmer didn't, and look what happened to her. ;_;

Where are your ideas "involving people giving things up"? 'We need to make gas and mail prohibitively' expensive isn't sustainably giving things up, it's destroying the livelihood and social fabric of most Americans. Including urbanites.

I know it's a typo but I love the idea of a big dude named George just greedily consuming vast amounts of resources while US policy makers look on in horror going "George, dude... you have to become more sustainable."

I think you don't understand the word 'sustainability', it doesn't mean 'we get to sustain the lifestyles we have now forever'

I think you don't understand the word 'sustainability', it doesn't mean 'we get to sustain the lifestyles we have now forever'

― iatee

the only type of sustainability that ppl are going to vote for does, is the problem

on the one hand i'm not opposed to certain things in the commons being subsidized.

on the other hand i don't think getting filled envelopes of paper put in your door every day is all that crucial to the social fabric

Right, instead it means sackcloth and ashes for all.

We could be really sustainable and just cull the herd.

I don't understand how long-term sustainability includes making it more difficult for people to travel to other areas for work or making it prohibitively expensive for businesses to transfer tangible goods to other locations.

It makes a lot more sense to say "we should break the United States up into smaller countries responsible for their own people/infrastructures" than it does to say "we should make everything prohibitively expensive so people can't afford to live anywhere".

I don't understand how long-term sustainability includes making it more difficult for people to travel to other areas for work or making it prohibitively expensive for businesses to transfer tangible goods to other locations.

because...those things...are often not sustainable?

Old people are not sustainable.
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTMwOTY3NTE5NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNDYxNDcyMg@@._V1._SY317_.jpg

is iatee vegetarian y/n?

I don't understand how long-term sustainability includes making it more difficult for people to travel to other areas for work

just more expensive, tbh, and not just for work

or making it prohibitively expensive for businesses to transfer tangible goods to other locations.

not necessarily 'prohibitively', then, throw out a figure that isn't prohibitive or at which prohibitive is approached and i suppose it's a place to start

old people are not sustainable

well, not in the long run, usually, no

iatee, you are basically saying, "modern society is destroying the Earth; how can I destroy modern society while still getting to live in the NYC I know and love?" and the answer is "you can't"

i think iatee knows that he cant live in the nyc he "knows and loves"

is iatee vegetarian y/n?

I try to eat less meat tho I was vegetarian in hs and my hair started falling out. in any case I don't think individual decisions are gonna save the world which is why 'tax red meat and use the money to offset emissions' is a better idea than 'trying to guilt everyone into being vegetarian'

Can't wait for the new paradise in which ppl once again are born, live and die within 5 miles of one spot. "You want to see the Parthenon? You should've got yourself born in Greece, my friend."

I question whether iatee really speaks about anything he "knows and loves" or if it's kind of a theoretical persona stance. The whole thing kind of reads not far off from his "I am a lawyer who owns a beemer" persona he was pulling when that one rube dropped by ilx.

I''m not sure, but I think I live in George.

whoa whoa whoa mock iatee all you want but I won't have you sullying the good name of Jay Batman.

refusing basic healthcare to anyone over the age of 65 would save a lot of resources
denying heating fuel to people who live in cold climates, also a good idea (sorry NYC!)
obese Americans starved until their BMIs drop below 20

People unable to find work within walking distance of their residence can be sent to a labor prison

I was going to say that this conversation belongs on the fascist thread, but it made me want to move to the country and buy a pickup with a gun rack and burn my trash so I'm conflicted

idg how my opinions on good public policy are 'a persona'. they might be absurdist in the context of modern american politics but remember I'm the dude who defends obama in the politics thread, so I'm p aware of their context within the spectrum of american politics. that doesn't, incidentally, mean they there's something wrong with pricing greenhouse emissions and encouraging environmentally efficient lifestyles.

summary execution of all pets

Man, people seem to be hearing "gas should cost $23/gal" what's actually being (accurately) said is "gas costs $23/gal (probably much higher), we're just not paying the full bill up front".

'people have to pay for the environmental effects of driving' = 'iatee is a fascist'

Or pets can only be fed food made from the remains of the elderly who die off

Full-blown libertarianism would eventually result in a world where nothing much lived besides humans, cockroaches, dust mites, algae and bacteria. But they would all reach a certain kind of equalibrium. Voila! Sustainability! (/doomer)

Did you know that overall, cooling air is a lot less power-consuming than heating? There's really no reason to have large cities as far north as NYC unless there's a significant stabilizing effect due to ocean/mountain proximity. Which NYC doesn't have.

totally agree, which is why we should be building more big cities in california

I think it's more that you have a lot of interesting ideas that proscribe what large swaths of society at large should be doing, but you seldom address your own stake in this!

btw I just completely misused the word proscribe, ignore me

I don't care what society 'should be doing', I care about pricing things w/ environmental goals in mind

and cooling is less necessary than heating - no a/c in the south would require reconfiguring houses to old vernacular styles with sleeping porches and shit, but you aren't going to die sleeping outside in a Mississippi summer

man ppl get really bent out of shape by this stuff

How is "pricing things w/ environmental goals in mind" not a thing that society would do?

eugenics program to breed people who can run marathons to deliver news from urban city-state to urban city-state

the chances of anything iatee 'wants' happening in america's political context are close to zero, so everybody can take it easy

Being libertarian doesn't mean not giving a direction for society! It means that specific direction is limited government, subsidies, and intervention

marketing campaign to turn unused NYC subway and sewer tunnels into 21st century artists' lofts
art supplies restricted for wastefulness (oops)

new TV production banned, all citizens have to watch media projected from a central location onto night-time clouds. No clouds, tough shit.

wow I had no idea raising the gas tax would have so many unforeseen consequences