Whitney Houston R.I.P.

She still MOVED/affected millions of people!

Dunno how old you are, but I imagine there are at least as many people who know her best as a drug-damaged wreck than as a pop force. MJ's global ubiquity transcended his infamy. But Whitney's reality show descent I think proved far more damaging to her career. Lots of folks have moved and affected millions. Far fewer so perfectly eroded such good will. That, I'd argue, is her legacy, not some ace pop tunes released nearly 30 years ago.

You sound as if her hits aren't played on the radio. I hear them all the time!

her global ubiquity DID transcend her infamy

uh....no, I think most people remember her as both. Like do you really think her songs haven't survived the test of time and the damage she did to her rep, because you're definitely wrong if so. xxpost

Lots of folks have moved and affected millions. Far fewer so perfectly eroded such good will. That, I'd argue, is her legacy, not some ace pop tunes released nearly 30 years ago.

feel like the second part of this isn't really connected to the first... whether or not her "legacy" is her descent into drugs or the songs she put out before that (the reality of course is that the entire thing is her legacy) is irrelevant to whether or not she moved and affected millions of people

i'm young enough and have friends young enough to basically only remember her in her addict period, but most reactions from ppl younger and older than me that i've seen have remembered who she was before that, so idk.

Alfred otm. FFS I still hear her songs all over the place, and "I Wanna Dance With Somebody" was always one of the most popular choices at the local 'rising star' karaoke joint. in clubs people still dance to the goddamn song (usually at 80s nights but still).

I have many friends (ages ranged from like 20-45) who loved (and often publicly performed) her music. mostly singers, but they both embraced her music while still acknowledging her personal issues. They're devastated atm. But the idea that her music has fallen out of public favor is LOLworthy. maybe some of her lesser 80s hits, but for God's sake, stuff like "I Will Always Love You" and "I Have Nothing" is timeless.

Stunningly, so far, the public reception to her death in my general circle has been less "ehh she got what was coming" than with say Amy Winehouse...I really think the public was sympathetic to her trying to make a comeback, that and possibly because most of her personal drama was private and not as public as Amy's. I don't think her addiction issues are damaging her legacy anywhere near as much as other deceased singers.

the thing with whitney and drugs is that while it's overwhelmingly sad to have seem her throw a large portion of her life away... i don't think most ppl feel like we didn't get enough out of her, musically speaking. she's not someone that lost her life at the prime of her career because of her addictions... it's more of a michael situation where you're just generally smh at what can happen to people, but it's not like there isn't a deep catalog of music to go back to

^^^ also otm

i think amy was also contemporary enough that people (inc the dicks making jokes) felt able to have ~opinions~ on whether she was any good or not, whereas whitney and michael's legacies are a) so obvious b) so far back in the past that it's kind of pointless to argue their validity

or put another way, one's opinions on amy could be seen as integral to constructing one's taste set in 2011; whitney and MJ, not so much.

or, like, if you didn't like amy's music, that's an ongoing conversation you'd have been having when you died. if you didn't like MJ's music or whitney's music, those would have been old thoughts, pointless to dredge up at a time like this.

any auditions portion of any given season of american idol (and i would assume other singing contest shows from around the globe) is pretty much enough to put the kibosh on the idea that whitney songs (at least the monster ballads) are considered by the youngs to be off-limits/forgotten/the embarrassing evidence of a drug casualty rather than (for better or worse) the big lung-busting showstopper standards of their generation.

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"I Wanna Dance With Somebody" was always one of the most popular choices at the local 'rising star' karaoke joint.

I got big applause when I did this at karaoke a few years ago. I pretty much never hear her songs anymore (don't listen to much MIX-FM-type radio), but people have a lot of fond memories...

Yeah, like these young kids actually pick those songs. Young kids had their Christinas and Mariahs, who granted, were not possibly, maybe, without Whitney, but I'm not so sure how much someone born in the '90s cares about Whitney any more than they care about Motown.

I guess that's the part I'm having trouble coming to grips with. Undeniably, she's popular, or was popular, but I never go the sense there was as much affection for her as there was for someone like Michael Jackson. Like, I'm sure people were rooting for a comeback, but unlike MJ, I'm not entirely sure how devastating it is that it never arrived. Just sad. But I could be wrong, I guess.

And really

"I Wanna Dance With Somebody" was always one of the most popular choices at the local 'rising star' karaoke joint. in clubs people still dance to the goddamn song (usually at 80s nights but still).

(sorry for typos and xposts)

One crucial difference: MJ (and Winehouse to a lesser extent) boasted dozens of critics who considered Off The Wall and Thriller classic albums whereas Houston endured a lot of sneers for most of her career.

anyway r.i.p. lady. my mom was a big fan and the 80s pop hits are ingrained in me from childhood and those late '90s club mixes were an essential part of my going out experiences in the major period when i bothered to go out. i always kinda hoped you'd do more house diva stuff.

wow, almost ALL whitney vinyl is selling on ebay right now. haven't seen that since MJ. needless to say, whitney not big with vinyl fans. you couldn't give it away. very much a cd artist.

Whitney's first album released at the cusp of CD's going blogal.

*global

lol i was wondering wtf pun you were trying to make there

i like a lot of the ballads. its weird i don't think i ever actually thought about who else she should have worked with or other material she should have used. it never occurred to me. she sold more records than, like, anyone. so, she was probably good with that.

xpost to Al: Yeah, I mean, it's totally unfair, by my memories of her at her peak, when I was at my peak pop-music consumption period, I suppose, was that she epitomized pop as product, and that between S/A/W and Clive Davis she was kind of a polished cog in a well oiled machine. Again, totally not far, and ur-rockist, but I'm not sure how much respect Whitney ever got as more than a singer or a gormless shipper of units. She was never considered an Artist, and in fact when the Dolly cover came out she was actively derided for her total lack of subtly and nuance (even as she sold umpteen millions).

(Just how I remember it)

also i have as many gripes about this being the Most Ahistorical Generation as anyone (and a whitney thread is not where i thought i'd be making this argument) but i remember how many motown songs *i* knew and loved as a kid in the '80s, when "oldies" meant 50s/60s. now that it means the 80s (hell, almost the 90s), i doubt their aren't kids into r&b/soul/showtunes/whatthefuckever who dont know whitney songs. also i might (maybe) argue that these singing shows have done a lot of heavy lifting keeping her rep alive during the dark years by completing the transition from working pop artist to Great Voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx2siUl5L8I&feature=related

I liked Whitney Houston, more than I would expect considering I was never a fan per se (though I did/do really like "I Wanna Dance with Someone"). Back around 1992/93 I had a next door neighbor named Belinda who was a nurse from the Philippines. The walls were very thin, and I think the only recording she owned was by Whitney Houston.

Also, so funny about the Material song. I'm pretty sure I owned a copy of that album at one time, but I never knew she had anything to do with it until now.

For real. Anyone who doubts the impact of her legacy need only watch "American Idol."

an unintentionally Shakey observation

here's another fabulous 2-step remix a friend has just unearthed

http://soundcloud.com/bat020/whitney-houston-2step-remix

xpost But I think that's her legacy as a show-off unit shipper, alas, thus justifying rampant melisma.

i don't think anyone does prefer the acappella, it's just a pretty astonishing demonstration of her voice

― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Sunday, 12 February 2012 14:42 (52 minutes ago) Permalink

I do. I suppose this will qualify me for rockism or some such egregious sin, but it's just a personal preference - the '80s, tinny pop production values of producers like Arthur Baker sound tuneless so me and detract from the voice.

man there was some speed garage tune (ha ha probably something really obvious like "ripgroove") that looped a bit of whitney melisma until it sounded like god's own emergency broadcast system.

Arthur Baker is tinny?!?!

i always kinda hoped you'd do more house diva stuff.

so many remixes over her career which did this job for her though - thunderpuss mix of "it's not right" as correctly rhapsodised over upthread, also hex hector's "i learned from the best" and jr vasquez's "how will i know"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMdXi6f5KRg

I adore this performance, espesh ~ 4:00 in : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_4PlM85NJo&feature=BFa&list=PLFB0C6BC1061DAE04

awww, my brother dan bunny wrote something nice on facebook just now:

"i miss whitney..working in record stores when her first record came out i felt th sky shift a little every day..people were berserk for that voice..moms..teens..old frumpy dudes..all they wanted was to be taken out of whatever hell the 80's had to offer and escape to a cloud w a caramel angel..when i djed for some mafia at a steakhouse,,dipping low behind the booth to snort some cocaine.,i couldnt wait to blast the new record and make people happy..th dirt and grime will forthcome in th press..but i will always feel like a saved soul of some sort in th presence of that amazing voice,unequalled,poorly imitated and never forgotten"

guthrie ramsey on facebook:

"Perfect vibrato. (Deceivingly) effortless diaphragmic support. Excellent way of "crowding" the cadences with "just enough" sonic information before landing coyly in the next structural part of the song. Widest of ranges: hardly ever "bailed out" by flipping into falsetto. Used the falsetto flip as a subtle garnish. Impeccable intonation (builds "trust" in a listener). Grew more melismatic as time progressed--never overdid this, though--mostly clever twists at the ends of phrases or tossed in between plainly rendered melodic statements that allowed us to sing along at full voice, by ourselves, in the car. Through musical economy and powerful execution could shape the emotional contour of a song whether in long concert-versions or on a 4:00 minute record. A come hither/don't come another step closer or I'll call my cousin camera presence. She and "the voice" seemed like two separate entities: she performed it; allowed us to witness it, she obviously enjoyed it herself. But in the end it just couldn't keep up."

there's an x-men remix of "it's not right" that you can find on the internet but the b-side is an alternate mix they did that i like even better. i have ripped it from the white label JUST FOR YOU and encoded it, and uploaded it here -

http://www.mediafire.com/?uyr8m4v86eycb83

: /

According to TMZ, Whitney Houston was found in the bathtub of the Beverly Hills hotel with her face underwater. She had been in the bathroom for over an hour when her hairdresser went to check on her, only to discover her head underwater and legs in the air, as if she'd slid down the back of the tub. It is unclear if the official cause of death was drowning.

damn scott, helluva quote

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― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:21 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Grew more melismatic as time progressed

Yeah, Josh, there's no rampant melisma on her early hits.

im pretty sure that's where the general public all started to think she was an amazing singer.

Grew more melismatic as time progressed--never overdid this, though

Beg to differ. In addition to showcasing two dynamics--soft and LOUD--she oversings the living shit out of "I Will Always Love You."

I don't pretend to know her catalog through and through or anything. And I apologize if I'm being too unsentimental for people less than 24 hours out.

But I feel like people are confusing her talent--which she had in abundance--with artistry. And while I don't deny talent alone can take even the most banal of material to somewhere emotional, even artistic (see: The Star Spangled Banner), I'm not entirely sure a handful of moments to that effect over a span of three decades justifies some of the tributes we're hearing. Put another way, Whitney Houston wasn't a legend -- she was a star. And like every star, she burned bright for a while and then burned the fuck out.

let's agree to, not exactly disagree, but that we are completely right and you are completely wrong

Glad you brought up The Star Spangled Banner, because that performance was pretty widely debated- people who loved her loved it, but I can also recall a lot of catty and/or skeptical reactions to the display going on there.

I'm also wondering if I"m the only person who remembers the very long and elaborate Henry Rollins spoken word bit about Whitney Houston's version of "The Greatest Love of All"- I recall it being an extended cranky rant about race in America with some aside about Houston's undeniable pipes.

What's the difference between a star and legend? A "legend" in this context is a showbiz word.

I encourage unsentimentality -- it's a tonic to the shall we say wetter tributes I've read in the last nineteen hours.

About the only edifying thing emerging from the death of someone as big as Houston is figuring out what made her awesome and gross. I'm not a fan and said so in my obit. To my ears she recorded quite a few misconceived songs. I dislike a third of her hits. I was in the anti-Whitney camp in '93.

But I've learned a lot about gospel and R&B in the interim, specifically how to listen and judge it. Thus, I'm reacting more kindly to those moments in vast catalog that ARE powerful. But it's a waste of time to pine for a purer Whitney who could have kept working with Bill Laswell.

It's funny, being born in late '82 I always felt Whitney was just a hair before my time, whereas it seems like I grew up with Mariah Carey (her heir to the big-ballad/pop-soul/M.O.R&B throne, of course). And despite that voice, her music never really signified for me either, though I can feel that great big gorgeous voice now more than I ever could as a kid. But her decline spooked me for real. After the drugs she turned into an utterly, completely different person. Look at early and late interviews, or performances. It's terrifying. What a fucking shame.