Indefinite Detention? But I Have Soccer Practice at 4: U.S. Politics 2012

and yeah very few people in this country are actually anti-birth control

And the people who are for real anti birth control, how many of them vote Democratic? That's a pretty hard-core social conservative to be on the other side in this age of extreme polarization.

Top Democrats are openly calling into doubt the chances that Congressional negotiators will reach an agreement to renew the payroll tax cut for the rest of the year—before it expires at the end of the month.

from TPM

I see that Digby and others are already worrying for me about how Dems may screw this up in order to reach a deal---

in a better world, Dems would realize they have the GOP over a barrel public opinion-wise, and just refuse to accept any GOP quid-pro-quo demands, let the GOP vote down the extension, and then rake them over the coals in the fall

the Dems are not known for political wiles though

that's putting it mildly

Yeah, they would be so blindsided by the "The Democrats just raised your taxes with 8% unemployment!" ads, they'd never be able to react. Because you know that's exactly what the GOP would have at the ready when the extension failed.

except that in this case it's the GOP that would be raising taxes...? as they would be explicitly voting against a tax break?

But they would blame it on the failures of Harry Reid and Obama to "work together" and "overecome partisanship" to accomplish an extension.. They're famous for that kind of crap.

that's so transparently false tho. Dems would just say "we voted for the tax break. The GOP voted against it. end of story"

hypothetically

Hypothetically Americans aren't morons swayed by the words of fucking Mitch McConnell but... welp.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-advisors-seek-compromise-on-contraception-rule/2012/02/06/gIQAlUwrwQ_story.html?hpid=z2

Stay strong White House, do not cave, please.

taking bets?

http://m.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/everybody-loves-drones

nice, america

*sigh*

The poll shows that 53 percent of self-identified liberal Democrats — and 67 percent of moderate or conservative Democrats — support keeping Guantanamo Bay open, even though it emerged as a symbol of the post-Sept. 11 national security policies of George W. Bush, which many liberals bitterly opposed.

Boehner comes out against boner blocking ...uh... I give up

looooooooove me, love me, love me.... xp

To expand on Shakey's point:

The Democratic Party owes a sincere apology to George Bush, Dick Cheney and company for enthusiastically embracing many of the very Terrorism policies which caused them to hurl such vehement invective at the GOP for all those years. And progressives who support the views of the majority as expressed by this poll should never be listened to again the next time they want to pretend to oppose civilian slaughter and civil liberties assaults when perpetrated by the next Republican President (it should be noted that roughly 35% of liberals, a non-trivial amount, say they oppose these Obama policies).

One final point: I’ve often made the case that one of the most consequential aspects of the Obama legacy is that he has transformed what was once known as “right-wing shredding of the Constitution” into bipartisan consensus, and this is exactly what I mean. When one of the two major parties supports a certain policy and the other party pretends to oppose it — as happened with these radical War on Terror policies during the Bush years — then public opinion is divisive on the question, sharply split. But once the policy becomes the hallmark of both political parties, then public opinion becomes robust in support of it.

that post is sort of hystrionic (quel surprise) but his point is valid

er Greenwald's post that is

american liberals 'not actually very left-wing' is not some shocka, it's why we are where we are

voters I mean

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41yg6eowfxL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Greenwald's complete disconnect from the realities of american political opinion is impressive even for a Liberaltarian who lives in Brazil.

god only knows what a 'liberaltarian' is

the hypocrisy on this point is pretty blatant Matt, I don't get what "realities" are being elided here

or is it just that you don't think he should be shocked

nobody's a hypocrite cause nobody's a liberal

GG really thinks that there were a ton of "progressives" who thought Gitmo, civil liberties etc. were a big deal and voted for Obama in large part because of it.

1. the number of these people is small, too small to be judged from these polls

2. if we could do a poll of these people, most of them would be disappointed with Obama, and very few would now suddenly support civil liberties violations.

But GG probably chats with 2 or 3 of these people online so he's really pissed.

yes sadly i think GG overestimates how much the civil liberties grodiness was animating liberals in 2006 or 08

i think he is right about various kinds of media basically ignoring this issue now that a liberal is president however

the number of people saying they support guantanamo's operation is legit surprising

I'm reasonably certain there's poll data showing a shift among liberals both pre- and post-Obama election

the % of people who could actually tell you what guantanamo is, why it exists, how it operates is probably pretty low

like I wouldn't be surprised if < 50% would know what country it's in

GG really thinks that there were a ton of "progressives" who thought Gitmo, civil liberties etc. were a big deal

He explicitly says these ppl were posturing/pretending to care about these matters when BushCheney were in charge.

Turns out all they really do care about is gay pride proclamations, abortion/contraception, and the prez being "cool."

the fact that they're idiots doesn't make them not hypocrites though

xp

otherwise i pretty much agree

He explicitly says these ppl were posturing/pretending to care about these matters when BushCheney were in charge.

Turns out all they really do care about is gay pride proclamations, abortion/contraception, and the prez being "cool."

― Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 8, 2012 8:39 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

even in this construct, those people aren't suddenly OK with Gitmo, they're just supporting Obama anyway. These polls don't reflect Gitmo hypocrites.

GG really thinks that there were a ton of "progressives" who thought Gitmo, civil liberties etc. were a big deal and voted for Obama in large part because of it.

1. the number of these people is small, too small to be judged from these polls

no idea where you're getting your info from but i've never met a single self-defined progressive OR liberal who wasn't at least kind of bothered by the bush admin's policies on civil liberties, espec. gitmo.

seriously cannot remember encountering a single 'liberal' person, outside of maybe a fuckin' joe klein article or something, that insisted that bush was doing a stellar job on the civil liberties front.

'I don't know anyone who voted for nixon' etc.

Matt also did not hear the applause in every Bam '08 "I will close Guantanamo" speech

Matt, you're being real disingenuous. Every liberal friend in '05 specifically mentioned Bush's civil liberties violations (and Iraq) as his most egregious cins.

xpost that applause was just a tiny portion of the audience clapping really loudly

also they were shouting boo-urns

Maybe Matt can visit the OWS thread and enlighten them on their complete disconnect from the American political system.

Matt, you're being real disingenuous. Every liberal friend in '05 specifically mentioned Bush's civil liberties violations (and Iraq) as his most egregious cins.

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, February 8, 2012 9:38 PM (48 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Iraq>>>>>civil liberties violations

your liberal friends are a scintilla in a poll of "Democrats." and I presume hardly any of them are now ok with Gitmo remaining open.

your liberal friends are a scintilla in a poll of "Democrats." and I presume hardly any of them are now ok with Gitmo remaining open.