Whitehouse all blowed up, President Obama hair and jacket singed, holding a smoking IUD.
― Unleash the Chang (he did what!) (Austerity Ponies), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 20:58 (twelve years ago) link
blip in the newscycle, will be forgotten next week
Catholics who regularly attend mass may not be allowed to forget about this, depending on how incensed the bishop is over it. bcz catholics make up a chunk of the trad dem coalition, esp in the industrial eastern states like Pennsylvania, this may be more than a blip - although "cataclysmic" is not quite right, either.
― Aimless, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 21:04 (twelve years ago) link
this is a blip in the newscycle, will be forgotten next week
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier
Romney, Gingrich, Santorum et. al. are trying to keep this Obama hates Christians and religious freedom meme alive too.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 21:04 (twelve years ago) link
Religious freedom in USA: "Ground Zero Mosque" vs health provider "conscientious objectors" to rubbers
― Unleash the Chang (he did what!) (Austerity Ponies), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 21:05 (twelve years ago) link
Polls show that as many as 98 percent of Catholic women in the United States have used birth control, despite the church's teachings.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 21:06 (twelve years ago) link
We all knew Obama hated xians way before this. There's probably about 2 dozen chain emails going around with all sorts of facts. This will be a blip. I don't worry about long memories in USA, beyond obsessive haters.
― Unleash the Chang (he did what!) (Austerity Ponies), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 21:10 (twelve years ago) link
it kinda depends on which states the mad catholics are in
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 21:11 (twelve years ago) link
they have caucus/primary votes coming up, after which there will be at least one less of them
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 21:13 (twelve years ago) link
and yeah very few people in this country are actually anti-birth control
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 21:14 (twelve years ago) link
And the people who are for real anti birth control, how many of them vote Democratic? That's a pretty hard-core social conservative to be on the other side in this age of extreme polarization.
― Unleash the Chang (he did what!) (Austerity Ponies), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 21:18 (twelve years ago) link
Top Democrats are openly calling into doubt the chances that Congressional negotiators will reach an agreement to renew the payroll tax cut for the rest of the year—before it expires at the end of the month.
from TPM
I see that Digby and others are already worrying for me about how Dems may screw this up in order to reach a deal---
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 22:03 (twelve years ago) link
in a better world, Dems would realize they have the GOP over a barrel public opinion-wise, and just refuse to accept any GOP quid-pro-quo demands, let the GOP vote down the extension, and then rake them over the coals in the fall
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 22:07 (twelve years ago) link
the Dems are not known for political wiles though
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 22:08 (twelve years ago) link
that's putting it mildly
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 22:13 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, they would be so blindsided by the "The Democrats just raised your taxes with 8% unemployment!" ads, they'd never be able to react. Because you know that's exactly what the GOP would have at the ready when the extension failed.
― You got to ro-o-oll me and call me the tumblr whites (Phil D.), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:05 (twelve years ago) link
except that in this case it's the GOP that would be raising taxes...? as they would be explicitly voting against a tax break?
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:12 (twelve years ago) link
But they would blame it on the failures of Harry Reid and Obama to "work together" and "overecome partisanship" to accomplish an extension.. They're famous for that kind of crap.
― You got to ro-o-oll me and call me the tumblr whites (Phil D.), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:15 (twelve years ago) link
that's so transparently false tho. Dems would just say "we voted for the tax break. The GOP voted against it. end of story"
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:15 (twelve years ago) link
hypothetically
Hypothetically Americans aren't morons swayed by the words of fucking Mitch McConnell but... welp.
― Frobisher (Viceroy), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:43 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-advisors-seek-compromise-on-contraception-rule/2012/02/06/gIQAlUwrwQ_story.html?hpid=z2
Stay strong White House, do not cave, please.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 16:37 (twelve years ago) link
taking bets?
― Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 16:38 (twelve years ago) link
http://m.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/everybody-loves-drones
nice, america
― diln (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 17:29 (twelve years ago) link
*sigh*
The poll shows that 53 percent of self-identified liberal Democrats — and 67 percent of moderate or conservative Democrats — support keeping Guantanamo Bay open, even though it emerged as a symbol of the post-Sept. 11 national security policies of George W. Bush, which many liberals bitterly opposed.
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 18:51 (twelve years ago) link
Boehner comes out against boner blocking ...uh... I give up
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 19:00 (twelve years ago) link
looooooooove me, love me, love me.... xp
― Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 19:26 (twelve years ago) link
To expand on Shakey's point:
The Democratic Party owes a sincere apology to George Bush, Dick Cheney and company for enthusiastically embracing many of the very Terrorism policies which caused them to hurl such vehement invective at the GOP for all those years. And progressives who support the views of the majority as expressed by this poll should never be listened to again the next time they want to pretend to oppose civilian slaughter and civil liberties assaults when perpetrated by the next Republican President (it should be noted that roughly 35% of liberals, a non-trivial amount, say they oppose these Obama policies).
One final point: I’ve often made the case that one of the most consequential aspects of the Obama legacy is that he has transformed what was once known as “right-wing shredding of the Constitution” into bipartisan consensus, and this is exactly what I mean. When one of the two major parties supports a certain policy and the other party pretends to oppose it — as happened with these radical War on Terror policies during the Bush years — then public opinion is divisive on the question, sharply split. But once the policy becomes the hallmark of both political parties, then public opinion becomes robust in support of it.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 19:39 (twelve years ago) link
that post is sort of hystrionic (quel surprise) but his point is valid
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 19:42 (twelve years ago) link
er Greenwald's post that is
american liberals 'not actually very left-wing' is not some shocka, it's why we are where we are
― iatee, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 19:45 (twelve years ago) link
voters I mean
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41yg6eowfxL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
― Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 19:47 (twelve years ago) link
Greenwald's complete disconnect from the realities of american political opinion is impressive even for a Liberaltarian who lives in Brazil.
― Matt Armstrong, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:15 (twelve years ago) link
god only knows what a 'liberaltarian' is
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:18 (twelve years ago) link
the hypocrisy on this point is pretty blatant Matt, I don't get what "realities" are being elided here
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:20 (twelve years ago) link
or is it just that you don't think he should be shocked
nobody's a hypocrite cause nobody's a liberal
― iatee, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:22 (twelve years ago) link
GG really thinks that there were a ton of "progressives" who thought Gitmo, civil liberties etc. were a big deal and voted for Obama in large part because of it.
1. the number of these people is small, too small to be judged from these polls
2. if we could do a poll of these people, most of them would be disappointed with Obama, and very few would now suddenly support civil liberties violations.
But GG probably chats with 2 or 3 of these people online so he's really pissed.
― Matt Armstrong, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:27 (twelve years ago) link
yes sadly i think GG overestimates how much the civil liberties grodiness was animating liberals in 2006 or 08
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:28 (twelve years ago) link
i think he is right about various kinds of media basically ignoring this issue now that a liberal is president however
the number of people saying they support guantanamo's operation is legit surprising
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:29 (twelve years ago) link
I'm reasonably certain there's poll data showing a shift among liberals both pre- and post-Obama election
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:30 (twelve years ago) link
the % of people who could actually tell you what guantanamo is, why it exists, how it operates is probably pretty low
― iatee, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:30 (twelve years ago) link
like I wouldn't be surprised if < 50% would know what country it's in
― iatee, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:31 (twelve years ago) link
GG really thinks that there were a ton of "progressives" who thought Gitmo, civil liberties etc. were a big deal
He explicitly says these ppl were posturing/pretending to care about these matters when BushCheney were in charge.
Turns out all they really do care about is gay pride proclamations, abortion/contraception, and the prez being "cool."
― Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:39 (twelve years ago) link
the fact that they're idiots doesn't make them not hypocrites though
― diln (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:40 (twelve years ago) link
xp
otherwise i pretty much agree
― Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 8, 2012 8:39 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
even in this construct, those people aren't suddenly OK with Gitmo, they're just supporting Obama anyway. These polls don't reflect Gitmo hypocrites.
― Matt Armstrong, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:43 (twelve years ago) link
GG really thinks that there were a ton of "progressives" who thought Gitmo, civil liberties etc. were a big deal and voted for Obama in large part because of it.1. the number of these people is small, too small to be judged from these polls
no idea where you're getting your info from but i've never met a single self-defined progressive OR liberal who wasn't at least kind of bothered by the bush admin's policies on civil liberties, espec. gitmo.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 21:30 (twelve years ago) link
seriously cannot remember encountering a single 'liberal' person, outside of maybe a fuckin' joe klein article or something, that insisted that bush was doing a stellar job on the civil liberties front.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 21:33 (twelve years ago) link
'I don't know anyone who voted for nixon' etc.
― iatee, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 21:34 (twelve years ago) link