ILX Parenting 5: I'm a big kid now

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interesting article, though obv filled w/ generalizations. I'm sure not every french parent is like that. but we are struggling w/ our 2 1/2 year old being able to do *anything* on her own. if she's off playing by herself for like 2 minutes, we're amazed and excited. just not very independent at all. if she's playing with something, she wants us to be playing with it too. if we don't go play with her, she wants us to hold her.

she's got a weird situation, though -- my wife stays at home with her and I work at home 90% of the time now. so we're *always* around. i can't really blame her for thinking we should just be there at all times. but the "no" thing is useful, we're trying to be more tough about not just dropping everything for the smallest thing she wants.

tylerw, Monday, 6 February 2012 17:22 (nine years ago) link

Yeah I think for me the trick would be feeling tender and affectionate toward my kid/s and yet saying "No" lovingly and not in irritation at all. You say it because you believe hearing "No" and being self-entertaining and uh more patient (although I don't know if I think it's that simple) is beneficial for your kid, not because they're getting on Mommy's nerves and she's trying not to open the bottle of wine until at least 4pm.

one little aioli (Laurel), Monday, 6 February 2012 17:39 (nine years ago) link

haha my 3-y-o is playing by himself more, talking to his toys, etc but virtually every time i listen in he's bossing them around parent-style! "now YOU sit THERE. for FIVE MINUTES. STOP IT." :/

basically between that WSJ article and the "tiger mother" book it seems clear that if you really want to coin it, write a big book telling parents they should be more selfish about their time and less sensitive toward their children

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 6 February 2012 17:52 (nine years ago) link

lol yeah. don't treat your kids like kids! you will ruin their childhood!

tylerw, Monday, 6 February 2012 17:57 (nine years ago) link

the funniest thing to me about the whole history of parenting-how-to guides is that overall, at any given point in time, large chunks of the populace have been convinced that children are being raised incorrectly.

max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 February 2012 17:58 (nine years ago) link

like, it doesn't matter what you do, in 10 years it will have been the absolute wrong thing

max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 February 2012 18:10 (nine years ago) link

tbh my sister-in-law is married to a french guy and they just had a baby and hearing her talk (second-hand from my wife) about their child-rearing philosophy is pretty depressing, it's very 1950s USA patriarchy where the SIL is constantly worried about "disturbing" her husband with the baby (who's like 6 months old) crying, etc., so i have trouble romanticizing the french parenting philosophy. but some of that is probably just their relationship, he's kind of a creep in general.

congratulations (n/a), Monday, 6 February 2012 18:12 (nine years ago) link

Why didn't French children throw food?

buzza, Monday, 6 February 2012 18:16 (nine years ago) link

xp That sounds kind of awful. :(

one little aioli (Laurel), Monday, 6 February 2012 18:17 (nine years ago) link

I guess one reason the "french parenting" article appealed to me in part was that I feel like I see a lot of parents around Brooklyn who act a little too much like kids around their kids, like as though they see their primary role as being especially manic and entertaining playmates. I still think a parent probably ought to be modeling aspirational behaviors for their kids, although obviously parents should also have fun with their kids and be silly sometimes. I get the impression sometimes that the parents I'm talking about are not only confusing their kids but getting them kind of hyped up and anxious.

At the same time, the image the article projects onto French parents seems awfully conveniently suited to the parent who wants to avoid being bothered too much by this whole parenting thing.

happiness is the new productivity (Hurting 2), Monday, 6 February 2012 18:23 (nine years ago) link

I have a suspicion that you become the kind of parent you can handle being. I know it makes you be better than you are, every day that you can, because that's the kind of love you feel for yr children, but I also know my brain breaks down from too much noise and chaos and interruption--I have so much sympathy for my dad, in my own adulthood.

I get the impression sometimes that the parents I'm talking about are not only confusing their kids but getting them kind of hyped up and anxious.

Yes, I've seen this, saw it last night from the other guests, too. I get mad when people don't take children seriously and answer them seriously--that 4-yo isn't on this earth to be a joke for you, you know. If you want him to be polite and learn about social interaction, you should maybe stop LAUGHING AT HIM.

one little aioli (Laurel), Monday, 6 February 2012 18:39 (nine years ago) link

"While some American toddlers are getting Mandarin tutors and preliteracy training, French kids are—by design—toddling around by themselves."

This doesn't seem particularly middle-class to me...

Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 6 February 2012 18:56 (nine years ago) link

it's the wall street journal

congratulations (n/a), Monday, 6 February 2012 18:56 (nine years ago) link

My daughter has a Mandarin tutor:

http://www.nihao-kailan.com/img/kailan.gif

pplains, Monday, 6 February 2012 19:04 (nine years ago) link

I agree with the lack of "no"-ing and the inability of parents to allow children their own space. I don't know how peculiarly American or middle-class they are, but I've definitely observed both pretty frequently even in my short parenting career.

Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 6 February 2012 19:05 (nine years ago) link

this article is my first exposure to the term "kindergarchy". not sure what it means, but it makes me feel a little sick to my stomach.

tylerw, Monday, 6 February 2012 19:08 (nine years ago) link

literally = rule by children

max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 February 2012 19:11 (nine years ago) link

not sure how i feel about german/greek linguistic mashups.

tylerw, Monday, 6 February 2012 19:29 (nine years ago) link

My mother taught us table manners and how to behave through play. We'd have tea parties and teddy bear dinners, that is how I learned how to behave at the table.

We were never allowed to eat all day or when we wanted to. I think we were actually too poor for that. But after a nap we did get a bowl of pudding or ice cream and so we looked forward to nap time, which was also story time then would wake up to a treat and Mighty Mouse. My mom never carried snacks in her purse.

My paternal grandmother definitely had the whole polite but firm thing going on. At my grandmother's house we wouldn't dare open her fridge or kitchen pantry, would ask to turn her television on and would never wander through the house or ask for snacks. But we loved going there, we had fun. At my maternal grandmother's house, we were completely wild, made anything we wanted in her kitchen, went through her drawers and closets, pulled out boxes of personal belongings...she never said no.

I am interested in reading the book , see how it compares to Dr Sears and attachment parenting.

*tera, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 03:49 (nine years ago) link

guh the snack thing. sylvie just went through a phase where she said i'mmmmmm hunnnnnnngry every 10 seconds. part of it was just an attention-getting strategy, but i think she was also going through a growth spurt at the time. really difficult to deny her food when she asks for it constantly, though we tried to have a more rigid schedule for snacks. more than one a day, though, that's for sure.

tylerw, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 16:15 (nine years ago) link

reading this right now

it's interesting, some good stuff. also some entertainingly dated stuff (late 70s/early 80s depictions of moms with handkerchiefs tied around their heads, casual allusions to hitting children, etc.)

max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 16:54 (nine years ago) link

Met with a mid-wife on Monday at a birthing center and loved the facility. She was also very warm and knowledgeable so we decided to go with a water birth at this center.

Yesterday we saw the ob at my scheduled appt and ugh...ended up telling the billing agent we were going with the midwife. I think we even said we were thinking of going with a midwife and this might be our last visit.

When the ob came in he just measured me but didn't follow up on the tests done at my last visit nor was a question I had phoned in between the last visit and yesterday's visit addressed. He asked if I had any problems and I mentioned some pain and he suggested a support belt. Weird since at the last visit I was wearing one and he condescendingly said they just really didn't offer much help or relief but to go ahead and use it if I thought it was doing any good. I then asked if the measurement was normal, if "everything" was normal referring to the urine test, blood pressure and weight taken. He just said yes. I felt I wasn't specific enough.

I don't attribute his flakiness towards us to leaving although I guess it could have been. The office has been really unfocused as has the doctor since day one. So then he said he had heard that we were transferring and we said we were transferring to a midwife. Awkward pause and stares followed then the visit was quickly over after that.

*tera, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 08:50 (nine years ago) link

guy sounds like a tool

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 13:00 (nine years ago) link

a friend lent me that book Shakey but i couldn't make it past the first few pages; the author sounds like she had problems we don't really have, and her advice on how to overcome those problems is very much common sense. though it can sometimes be helpful to be reminded what common sense actually is - sometimes you can outthink yourself.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 13:02 (nine years ago) link

My plan is definitely to apply the "go with your instincts" method of parenting, because I can pretty much never get through more than a few pages of a parenting book.

happiness is the new productivity (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 15:02 (nine years ago) link

Kids are all different anyway -- I was naturally quiet and slow-moving, my brother was a perpetual motion machine. I was hold-it-in, he was let-it-out. I probably needed different parenting than he did.

happiness is the new productivity (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 15:05 (nine years ago) link

the author sounds like she had problems we don't really have, and her advice on how to overcome those problems is very much common sense

yeah I don't really disagree with this. some of the examples given of things parents might say ("close the door! how can you be so stupid!") are like so over-the-top wrong - just stuff I would never say - lend the book a strange anthropological appeal. like jeez were these really common parenting tactics in the 70s, to constantly emotionally and physically abuse your child...?

max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 16:51 (nine years ago) link

for example:

I was so gung ho to get his new approach going in my family that I came home from a meeting, tripped over my daughter's skates in the hall, and sweetly told her, "Skates belong in the closet." I thought I was wonderful. When she looked up at me blankly, and then went back to reading her book, I hit her.

I've since learned two things...

uh, okay

max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 16:53 (nine years ago) link

hahaha WHAT

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 16:55 (nine years ago) link

haha, no that's not funny, haha

pplains, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 17:09 (nine years ago) link

how about

I was so gung ho to get his new approach going in my family that I came home from a meeting, tripped over my daughter's skates in the hall, and hit her. When she looked up at me blankly, and then went back to reading her book, I sweetly told her, "Skates belong in the closet." I thought I was wonderful.

pplains, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 17:10 (nine years ago) link

tbf the book does have some helpful/common-sense things behind it - like, "don't insult your child", "acknowledge their feelings/help them articulate them" etc.

max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 17:16 (nine years ago) link

btw y'all i'm a dad now. her name is keren

simulation and similac (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 02:43 (nine years ago) link

congratulations, that is wonderful news! <3

estela, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 02:44 (nine years ago) link

congrats!

tylerw, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 02:44 (nine years ago) link

Congratulations!

Steamtable Willie (WmC), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 02:46 (nine years ago) link

congratulations! that is a nice name.

horseshoe, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 03:06 (nine years ago) link

That's a beautiful name! Congrats!

We had our 1st real appointment with the midwife today and I really like her. She felt T's belly and told us how the baby is positioned and that was nice to know. Something the previous doctor couldn't tell us.

JacobSanders, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 03:12 (nine years ago) link

baby bonding hormones = best drug ever btw

simulation and similac (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 03:58 (nine years ago) link

Ya know for the last few months I've had this depression repellant, it's like nothing gets me down. I guess it's baby bonding hormones, even though she's isn't here, I feel connected to her. I like singing to her.

JacobSanders, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 04:10 (nine years ago) link

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*tera, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 04:18 (nine years ago) link

I love being a dad but I sure will be happy if/when little man learns how to sleep longer than 3 hours at a stretch

unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 05:18 (nine years ago) link

also congrats to Hurting 2!

unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 05:18 (nine years ago) link

hurting 3

simulation and similac (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 05:22 (nine years ago) link

Haha perfect! Congrats and OTM re baby bonding <3<3

giant snake birthday cake large fries chocolate shake (sunny successor), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 05:26 (nine years ago) link

So today was day 4 of her life, and it feels like so much was compressed into this short time. She's already very different than her first day - much more alert and interested in the world, calmer, less prone to frustration. We had a (probably typical) scare with feeding because she seemed to be eating all the time and still hungry and losing weight, but you just have to keep at it for a few days and the milk comes. Then today all of the sudden she had one of those massive diaper blowouts, and since that point she has been the most serene little thing.

I've actually been able to relax for the first time since her birth tonight - she is actually sleeping soundly for full 1-2 hour stretches and letting mom get some sleep. I'm doing my best to be calm with her and to give her a sense of reassurance - in my mind that seems more important than getting the exact right number of wet diapers or feeds or whatever, as long as the baby seems ok, and believe me if you are paying attention to the baby you will have instincts about this (e.g. when she was not getting enough to eat her mom knew right away, and pretty soon it became clear to me too).

She slept on my chest this evening while we watched the Knicks lose. BTW the skin-to-skin thing really is awesome, both for mom and for dad.

simulation and similac (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 05:29 (nine years ago) link

Congrats, hurting!

just1n3, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 05:47 (nine years ago) link

yeah, it is awesome to hear you talk about this!

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 10:10 (nine years ago) link

Congrats Hurting!

HO WBEAUTIFUL IS THE GENTLYFALLINGBLOOD? (Le Bateau Ivre), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 11:05 (nine years ago) link

Aw, how sweet. Congratulations Hurting.

wolf kabob (ENBB), Tuesday, 21 February 2012 15:22 (nine years ago) link

Now that you mention it, Ivy does better at teeth brushing when we do it in the bathroom. Although she has screaming shit fits whenever I try to wash her hands and face so I don't know.

from batman to balloon dog (carl agatha), Friday, 10 July 2015 16:35 (five years ago) link

huh dunno Judah loves gettin his teeth brushed. have yet to use actual toothpaste but it's clear he just wants to do what his big sister/parents do which is stand in front of the sink, look in the mirror, etc.

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 July 2015 16:35 (five years ago) link

P-q

UYD: Oxys, Percs, Vics, Addys, Rit-Dogs and Xannys (sunny successor), Saturday, 11 July 2015 23:11 (five years ago) link

how do i make it sleep for 3 consecutive hours

an asteroid could hit the planet (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 00:09 (five years ago) link

Still not entirely sure you do.

Nora did 7:30 to 11:30 last night, then until 1:30, then approx 4am, then 6:45. That's a good night. She's in her own room now.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 08:23 (five years ago) link

my sympathies.

both my boys have discovered headphones. much hilarity at the broken acapella singalongs. "but the chair is not my son!!"

transparent play for gifs (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 08:55 (five years ago) link

that's how that song goes, though

...what?

I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 13:13 (five years ago) link

F has done one of those sudden physical and mental leaps that leaves you looking at him going "who has taken my baby and left this broadly similar kid in his place?".

Pro: he seems to be sleeping massively better. Con: I can see the terrible twos brewing.

stet, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 13:16 (five years ago) link

Yesterday when I was FaceTiming with my wife and kids, J started saying "book" and began crying when my wife gave him the wrong one. Meanwhile, D gave the phone a fist bump when I asked him for one. These are astonishing little dudes IMO.

I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 13:18 (five years ago) link

Oh man, that's adorable.

outis made a new parenting thread btw. ILX Parenting 6: "Put Some Goddamn Pants On Before You Go Outside!" is a thing I say now

how's life, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 13:26 (five years ago) link


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