so tell me, why is Kaputt better or worse than Let England Shake?

i went and saw the faint years and years ago during the 2nd or 5th or 8th 80's revival and their sounds were right on but the only great song they played all night was "enola gay"!

Ha, this reminds me of being at a friends' house when they were watching some snowboarding dvd with people like The Faint on the soundtrack - one song came up at the end and I thought "Oh this is loads better than their other stuff", watching the credits it turned out to be some early Depeche Mode album track.

wow "Bay of Pigs (Detail)" is super annoying

lol Spotify is now playing "No Fools Allowed by DestroyER at me

http://open.spotify.com/track/259gdZPmfMClYUGs7JKo50

this is much more my bag than Kaputt

whether it was a character bejar was inhabiting or ironic self-commentary or something else i felt kinda alienated by the pov presented on 'kaputt' it reminds me of 'take care', kinda, although bejar is less loathsome than drake's unfiltered self-pitying narcissist. but theres still the glassy-eyed emptiness that turns me off, the idea of others as objects, esp women, and the commodification of xp.

Compare the Pet Shop Boys' lyrics to Bejar's empty signifiers of cocaine backrooms - one is slick, literate pop; the other, well...

Reading this made me want to throw something.

You could just as easily write:

"Compare Destroyer's lyrics to Tennant's empty signifiers of cachets of old photos - one is slick, literate pop; the other, well..."

It would be just as meaningless and just as convincing. Empty signifiers indeed.

hope you didn't break whatever you threw. think "empty signifiers" wasn't the right term to use.

whether it was a character bejar was inhabiting or ironic self-commentary or something else i felt kinda alienated by the pov presented on 'kaputt' it reminds me of 'take care', kinda, although bejar is less loathsome than drake's unfiltered self-pitying narcissist. but theres still the glassy-eyed emptiness that turns me off, the idea of others as objects, esp women, and the commodification of xp.

if anything I get the sense that the character he's inhabiting is the 'object'

world of objects

that sorta doesn't make sense but pretend I phrased it better

tim, do you like M83?

http://www.marcresearch.com/blogs/merrill/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/g_peter_graves_cockpit_airplane_1a.jpg

4 songs into LES wtf is this shit lol

i like both deez albumz

they are both enjoyable albums by interesting artists.

^ fuckin liars

come on, guys, you like BOTH of these albums, give me a fuckin break

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

ok

What's ironic about chasing girls and cocaine into backrooms of clubs? haven't we all done that when we were young?

well I did it ironically

i mean this has little to do with the conversation probably but i like the moments when the facade of kaputt cracks slightly. the weird noise in the middle of "chinatown"; the free jazz drift at the end of "song for america." feels like reality invading a thoroughly-composed unreality.

another thought: this sort of tension and cracking is in every song on let england shake. the album's kind of vaporous and floating like kaputt but it is married to elements that ground it intensely: the lyrics, the repurposing of other, concretely-known songs

anyway both albums are great and are trying to do different things and are variously successful at them

ah wow, just listening to Let England Shake for the first time on Spotify, and the advert between The Glorious Land and The Words That Maketh Murder was imploring me to join the Army Reserves. Couldn't get more perfect.

lol

i guess i have no interest in whether or not england is shaking.

people get the sounds right and pat themselves on the back, but they don't have the songs.

this is extremely true with the new wave of retro thrash

Lots of good insights on this thread. I like the idea that Bejar is not just recreating "the '80s" but a very specific '80s - not any specific album or artist, but a certain "cool" languorous aesthetic that runs through certain favorite albums of the period. Everyone seems to have their own touchstones, but for me it's mainly about The Nightfly (jazzy retro-futurism) and I'm Your Man (modernist word-play and synths).

I fully admit to not having listened to more than one song from LES, and it mainly made me want to listen to the Pogues.

Just realized I have had Let England Shake on my computer, I listened again and I like it ok. reminds me of the Nick Cave maybe. Hanging In The Wire is nice, I think I like her more subdued moments.

kaputt = cheesy cocktail of cheap drum programming plus throwaway lyrics plus a feeble voice plus some saxophones reminiscent of dire straits and dave sanborn. those saxes are still the coolest part btw. but do we really need this in the 2010s?

you're wrong and yes

yes, more than ever

pretty sure it's live drums across most of the album

i guess i have no interest in whether or not england is shaking.

― judith, Monday, February 6, 2012 2:41 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

kaputt is a wonderful album, one of the year's best

i've said it before but i wish i'd voted for it and allowed it to pull away from 'let england shake' a little more.

pretty sure it's live drums across most of the album
on "song for america" they sound awfully like a drum loop. if someone is capable to drum in such a unidimensional and mechanical way i guess we can call that person a robot.

I'm pretty sure Bejar said in one of those interviews that it was both live and sequenced drums combined.

i liked kaputt but it left v little impression on me and i stopped listening to it after 3/4 weeks. though to be honest, and i dunno if this is me, probably is, it takes a gargantuan album to really stamp a mark in my mind these days. not that i don't rate records, just only a particular few make me want to listen over and over and over.

i didn't listen to pj harvey cos it felt like that middle class indie thing but i heard a record on the radio recently and liked it a lot and it turned out it was pj harvey.

kaputt = cheesy cocktail of cheap drum programming plus throwaway lyrics plus a feeble voice plus some saxophones reminiscent of dire straits and dave sanborn. those saxes are still the coolest part btw. but do we really need this in the 2010s?

― alex in mainhattan, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 21:54 (24 minutes ago) Permalink

Don't people feel slightly self-conscious resorting to such generic criticisms? Do we really need this in the 2010s?

cos it felt like that middle class indie thing

if you read the guardian you shouldn't be allowed to say these thing imo

thats not a snipe at ronan btw its at anyone who thinks along those lines

the middle classes make all kinds of music. would there be anything left if we refused to listen to 'middle class' music?

I suspect "indie" was the stronger pejorative term than "middle class" in ronan's commentl or at least they have to be read together. He's complained before about hearing the XX at dinner parties, and I suppose PJ Harvey falls into that category somewhat.

xpost fair point, i just basically mean one of those artists the british media jizz about all the time in really cloying ways until you end up hating them, a darling, like for example, pulp.

i thought the british media jizzed about everything?

I suspect "indie" was the stronger pejorative term than "middle class" in ronan's commentl or at least they have to be read together. He's complained before about hearing the XX at dinner parties, and I suppose PJ Harvey falls into that category somewhat.

^ disagree. seems to me that "middle class" is supposed to be the really damning accusation in garda's dismissal of PJH. indie is a value-neutral genre descriptor, after all. middle class doesn't have much function in the sentence beyond the pejorative. plus it's a familiar slam against anything that's supposedly too "easy" and "safe", a means by which people claim to exist outside and above ordinary others.

indie is a value-neutral genre descriptor, after all.

For you.

a lot of the talk about pj harvey is easy and safe. not her fault but it's true. liking her is easy and safe too. again, not her fault or even anything to do with her music, but true.

i think dinner party music is the best description then

"indie is a value-neutral genre descriptor, after all."

For you.

well sure, i'm not a genre-bigot. but hey, different strokes. anyway, "indie" does describe PJH's sound and market reasonably well, whatever one might think of the genre overall. so it's at least reasonable to think that one might describe her music that way without intending any particularly pointed slam. the use of "middle class" in such dismissals, however, only ever intends to sneer down from a position of aesthetic & cultural superiority.