so tell me, why is Kaputt better or worse than Let England Shake?

so you think people should never any eras, or particularly the 80's?

should never champion*

I don't think this is 'championing an era'. it's playing w/ many of the sounds and themes of the era but that doesn't necessarily mean it's romanticizing them.

i get where you're coming from but i dunno i dont listen kaputt or west coast and go "oh cool 80's sounds here" i just hear awesome fresh music

ka*plop*

otm, I think the "80s sounds" of Destroyer are greatly exaggerated xp

I agree with iatee. Dealing with archetypes speaks to our history. It may well involve "romanticization," but not necessarily in a negative way.

I think to be on the safe side we should avoid the 2000s and 2010s cause they are possibly tainted with nostalgia for the 80s and its associated 60s nostalgia and oh shit people back then were probably nostalgic for the 40s. No place is safe.

Except the 90s.

so you think people should never any eras, or particularly the 80's?

kinda. idk it's like I'm particularly reactionary abt the 80s 'cause that's the era I was sort most plugged-into-the-zeitgeist in and I'm like NO IT WASN'T ACTUALLY AWESOME IT'S JUST THAT YOU WERE YOUNG & YOU MISS THAT, but at the same time, I do think there are things about any given era that are distinctive/worth talking about/defining. But yeah when people think one era is "better" I think they're morons tbph. Like I think metal right after Venom hits, that's a really interesting era to me, but narratives in which there's a peak/good part after which there are diminishing returns/etc seem like moronic self-serving youth-romanticizing tragedies

No '80s revival music strikes me as an assertion that the '80s were awesome.

tim you're kind of not exactly an impartial party on this q am I right

idk aero I think you are reading this as an 70/80s retro kick when really it's more like imagining a 70s/80s alternate universe

In what way?

Sometimes I think the world was supposed to end in the 80s and somehow someone forgot to throw the switch and we've ask just been droning on ever since...theres this old sci fi short story called ”twilight” that deals with something like that

xp @ iatee: well I think Bejar's particular deal is a sort of meta-investigating of the romanticization of the past, which has kind of always been his deal, but there's two things in play for me: what i think Bejar's doing, and how people respond to it. I'm considerably more reactionary about the latter, I dig what he does & we're pals besides though Kaputt hits all those 80s spots that I sort of would prefer to never hear again (as vs. a coworker of mine who thinks those sounds are the greatest things ever)

In what way?

don't you sort of adore the past unreservedly & champion much music from the 80s particularly?

Unreservedly? No. And partiality works both ways.

I don't think this is 'championing an era'. it's playing w/ many of the sounds and themes of the era but that doesn't necessarily mean it's romanticizing them.

romanticizing? yes, definitely.
championing? no.

I think the "80s sounds" of Destroyer are greatly exaggerated xp

??? it's hard to imagine a more explicit and direct musical evocation of a musical style & era, outside straight-up copycat/tribute shit.

imo kaputt sounds like "the Saturday Night Live Show Band"

there's a layer of irony that prevents this from romanticizing anything imo

I mean he's poking fun at 70s/80s signifiers while at the same time making remarkably pretty music w/ 70s/80s signifiers. the tension between those two things is what makes the album. imo.

But yeah when people think one era is "better" I think they're morons tbph. Like I think metal right after Venom hits, that's a really interesting era to me, but narratives in which there's a peak/good part after which there are diminishing returns/etc seem like moronic self-serving youth-romanticizing tragedies

― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, February 5, 2012 7:22 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if I hadn't been around for both years, I'd probably pick '93. I was, though, and when I look at the '88 list, I get all BMW-driver-about-the-60s. It Takes Two came out in '88; as much I love a lotta '93 stuff (and as much as I think the strides made in '93 are kinda bigger toward broadening the genre, and therefore more "important"), hearing "It Takes Two" on KDAY was one of those "oh, shit, music is different after this for me" moments. You don't like it, so what, I don't care

― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, January 8, 2012 3:20 PM (4 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

mainstream rap just gravitated towards what seemed like cover versions. I enjoy a lot of those songs now and can hear all the production work & polish but at the time it seemed like a sad turn

...I loved The Chronic and Doggy Style (and Uncle Sam's Curse what year was that?) but the element of rap that was like mindblowing sheer sonics gave way to what were essentially rock records structurally - same rules as rock in terms of how you get to the vibe/effect. whereas that late 80s stuff was so Structures In Sound - but then again, Wu Tang is fully up on that when they come around, and they weren't "throwback" to me at that point, they were taking that vision to where it would have gone next if it had remained the dominant discourse, which it didn't.

not that all rap had been dense layers of Bomb Squad & not that there isn't plenty of trad song structure at play in Nation of Millions and shit but that's how I break it down to an extent, rap becoming more a new approach to songcraft than a new approach to sound.

― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, January 8, 2012 10:18 PM (4 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lots of/most people currently enjoying 80s sounds were too young to remember the 80s anyway. Or not even born. So it's not about romanticising some lost golden period of youth like it is with the boomers and the 60s

aerosmith on the money. dre ruined everything.

i grew up in the 80s, it was shit.

i was there too man! and it sucked for me kinda but i did love a lot of music and still listen to a lot of it but i don't want to go back and don't want stuff to really sound like that all the time. cuz that would be boring. and most people suck at it. except sub-genre people. like rap people and metal people and dance people. and goth people.

at the same time, I do think there are things about any given era that are distinctive/worth talking about/defining.

flopson did you overlook this part intentionally or are you just too stupid to understand it? I can explain if need be. either way, it's disturbing to know that you keep a file of my posts, stalking's a terrible look imo

"oh no you answered a q pitting one era against another, you HYPOCRITE!" dude you are like the dumbest person on this board, real talk

that's an overstatement but that shit pissed me off, participating in a discussion where two eras are compared isn't the same as being some "x era RULES" dumbshit

yeah even with music and undoubtedly there was some amazing stuff in the 80s, I was completely unaware of it! I still like the pop stuff i liked then but i dont get nostalgic for it nor do i want anyone else now to make sounds like back then (lol he likes doom metal)

oh shut up you're such an unfun crank, so i recalled a post you made a month ago, that's a cheap shot

anyways i don't think that qualification exempts you from basically being a hypocrite, explain it to me please

and my pop stuff i liked ended about 1986 (i liked U2,Queen,PSB after that year)

if you can't handle being taken to task on your own inconsistencies don't make such broad claims

oh shut up you're such an unfun crank, so i recalled a post you made a month ago, that's a cheap shot

lol I apologize dude I'm still mad at you from a shot you took at me earlier this week & also I'm tipsy, yr right I'm an unfun crank it's a personality defect I work on, sorry I popped off atcha man I just got mad

it's disturbing to know that you keep a file of my posts, stalking's a terrible look imo

uncool to make light of actual stalking, fuck stuff like this infuriates me

you of all people

also my bad for deejing and pulling the "stalker!" card, that shit is bullshit, my bad

xp esoj otm

cool

guys madonna is performing "vogue" at a superbowl halftime show in the year 2012 right now

anyways i don't think that qualification exempts you from basically being a hypocrite, explain it to me please

can do this though - it's one thing to champion an era as some creative peak, it's another to answer "pick a side: prime thrash vs. early dm" or w/e. there's like a plague of ppl goin nuts about "the 80s" but I as I said in my initial post, I think historical discussion's potentially interesting whereas rose-tinted back-whenism is terrible, which is where I think a lot of retro shit is coming from. iirc the thread you're citing was a "choose between these two" thread in which I participated; you're not likely to catch me swinging into a present-day rap thread goin "X-Clan was better!", I may feel that way but that's on me, it's not like I think genres have to arrest themselves to keep me happy with some idealized frozen historical-present

guys madonna is performing "vogue" at a superbowl halftime show in the year 2012 right now

tv's muted but it looks like people are breakdancing too...good to see Maddy remembers 1997 accurately

why is everyone hating the 80's? Lots of great music came out in the 80's. I don't understand this thread anymore.

i love the 80s!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/401279_10150594457687137_686202136_9090491_1813989338_n.jpg

rufus just took that of me. sorry for the GOOGLEBOMB.

i was high the entire decade too so my judgement isn't entirely sound.

lots of/most people currently enjoying 80s sounds were too young to remember the 80s anyway. Or not even born. So it's not about romanticising some lost golden period of youth like it is with the boomers and the 60s

I think it can be romanticizing, but I don't see a problem with it in general. Romanticism is not something that has to be shunned because of a fear that it's divorced from reality.

im not gonna lie i did enjoy like a prayer just there

teh destroyer record sounds like al stewart not 'the 80s'

also its dope

oh shut up you're such an unfun crank, so i recalled a post you made a month ago, that's a cheap shot

lol I apologize dude I'm still mad at you from a shot you took at me earlier this week & also I'm tipsy, yr right I'm an unfun crank it's a personality defect I work on, sorry I popped off atcha man I just got mad

― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, February 5, 2012 7:58 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

its cool--tbh i was pretty stoked for an epic flameout but i can't not accept an apology & you managed to slip one in while i was out of the room. also happy to know those posts got under your skin ;-)