I'd say that's broadly true, Gavin, but I'm not trying to stan for the whole SST aesthetic either. I suppose, if anything, I'm valorizing a sort of pre-indie sensibility. As far as Craig's comments above re: DIY, I can again see how that's a liberating thing, how it operates politically, but the problem with politicizing art objects is that you're in danger of sacrificing your ability being able to approach them in a more unadornedly aesthetic light. DIY allows worthwhile voices to be heard that may not have reached an audience before, but when the feeble-ness and "hearing the stitching" (home sewing/etsy pun fully intended) aspect becomes fetishized, becomes the whole point, that's where I get lost. Again, going back to Tim's initial comment that sparked me thinking about this, we should be able to admit when we're "hearing with X ears" that are getting off on the politically liberating aspect of the music, and not stretch/distort it to say that "rehearsal makes for dead art" as that SR/Beat Happening quote seemed to. In fact, as much as I love SR's writing, my main criticism throughout all of his career is that I sometimes get the sense that he gets off more on the political thrust of music than on what he's actually hearing.
― Clarke B., Friday, 3 February 2012 12:47 (twelve years ago) link
No problem with lo-fi or a lack of technical ability if it's justified. What I really don't like it's when it's being obviously affected. It's the musical equivalent of distressed interior design I guess.
― Sounds Of The Baskervilles (dog latin), Friday, 3 February 2012 13:00 (twelve years ago) link
Matt DC, C's point was that Destroyer wouldn't count under the DIY terminology. Obviously.
yeah, indie and rock audiences primarily like indie and rock music and tend to view other types of music through that lens. this is not a "problem". everybody's got a point of view, and everybody's point of view is limited in some way or another.
the tendency of indie & rock critics to dominate the discourse might be a problem, but it's better fought by presenting alternative voices than by sniping endlessly (tediously) at whatever indie & rock critics happen to enjoy.
― his hands are a dirty fountain through which lives spurt (contenderizer), Friday, February 3, 2012 2:01 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I think this is pretty OTM, to be honest.
For what it's worth, Eleanoora Rosenholm is the name of the band, not the lead singer. IIRC "Eleanoora Rosenholm" is a fictional 1920 mass murderer who appears in their lyrics, or something like that.
― Tuomas, Friday, February 3, 2012 8:54 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This is very much OTM. I just couldn't be arsed to explain it at the time, hehehe.
― emil.y, Friday, 3 February 2012 13:04 (twelve years ago) link
I'd say that's broadly true, Gavin, but I'm not trying to stan for the whole SST aesthetic either. I suppose, if anything, I'm valorizing a sort of pre-indie sensibility.
I definitely agree with you to an extent (I also think dog latin and Tim F are making good points about the indiefication of critical discourse) - I mean I like lots of ramshackle, amateurish indie music (GbV are one of my favourite bands) but as an aesthetic in 2012 I find it kind of limited. Whereas stuff like Beat Happening or Orange Juice or whoever actually sounds liberated/liberating - and exploratory in a fascinating way - most current indiepop just sounds like people sticking too closely to a fairly narrow formula. Not that sticking to a formula is inherently bad but there's not much that grabs me music in terms of sonics or tunes (for a genre with a 'pop' suffix, a lot of it seems pretty low on hooks) and I can't help but think that the low level of proficiency/skill involved is a large part of the problem for me. That whole 'Here's three chords, now form a band' thing, I never thought that meant everyone had to use the same three chords, or that they couldn't eventually learn a fourth.
― Gavin, Leeds, Friday, 3 February 2012 13:06 (twelve years ago) link
Lex please have a listen to the uncle acid album and let me know what you think. Even if you hate it, i'll take a moral victory if you say it's still better than Destroyer!
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, 3 February 2012 13:11 (twelve years ago) link
btw the uncle acid album is pure DIY. 1st album came out on a run of 20 cdrs. 2nd album was CDR of about a 100 then it got some internet message board buzz and blew up in the metal underground.
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, 3 February 2012 13:12 (twelve years ago) link
We're skirting narrowly close to the "what is indie" discussion again, but I do think it's interesting to think about it in terms of an overall set of values than tangible tickboxes like "white guys with guitars" or whatever.
― Sounds Of The Baskervilles (dog latin), Friday, 3 February 2012 13:16 (twelve years ago) link
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/384786_10150478627933889_21461308888_8704352_52706294_n.jpg
― Sounds Of The Baskervilles (dog latin), Friday, 3 February 2012 13:38 (twelve years ago) link
top 20 rap albums for huge middlebrow lulz1. Jay-Z and Kanye West, Watch the Throne2. Drake, Take Care3. The Roots, Undun4. Danny Brown, XXX5. Kendrick Lamar, Section.806. Das Racist, Relax7. Clams Casino, Instrumental Mixtape8. Big KRIT, Return of 4Eva9. Beastie Boys, Hot Sauce Committee Part 210. DJ Quik, The Book of David11. A$AP Rocky, LiveLoveA$AP12. Tyler, the Creator, Goblin13. Common, The Dreamer/The Believer14. Saigon, The Greatest Story Never Told15. Death Grips, Exmilitary16. J. Cole, Cole World: The Sideline Story17. Main Attrakionz, 808s & Dark Grapes II18. E-40, Revenue Retrievin': Graveyard Shift/Overtime Shift19. Lil B, I'm Gay (I'm Happy)20. Action Bronson, Dr. Lecter
― somebody sh1pley the brinks truck (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:28 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
top 20 rap albums for moderate middlebrow lulz1. DJ Quik — The Book of David 2. Shabazz Palaces — Black Up 3. E-40 — Revenue Retrievin: Overtime Shift/Graveyard Shift 4. Araabmuzik — Electronic Dream 5. Death Grips — Ex-Military 6. Clams Casino — Instrumentals 7. Kendrick Lamar — Section.80 8. Danny Brown — XXX 9. Drake – Take Care 10. Big K.R.I.T. - Return of 4Eva 11. Jay-Z & Kanye West — Watch the Throne 12. Meek Mill - Dreamchasers13. Schoolboy Q - Setbacks14. French Montana - Coke Boys 215. Killer Mike - Pl3dge16. Action Bronson - Dr. Lecter17. Tyler, The Creator - Goblin18. Waka Flocka Flame - DuFlocka Rant19. Young Bleed - Preserved20. Angel Haze - Altered Ego
(Shabazz was also 3rd highest rap album in Pazz & Jop but Whiney missed it in his post)
― lana del rey: everythang's workin' (some dude), Friday, 3 February 2012 14:15 (twelve years ago) link
gotta say i'm proud of ILM for leaving Das Racist way out the 300s, though
― lana del rey: everythang's workin' (some dude), Friday, 3 February 2012 14:16 (twelve years ago) link
yessss a minor victory for angel haze and young bleed
wish cousin fik would've got more support though erm it appears to have missed my own ballot so i can't talk
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Friday, 3 February 2012 14:24 (twelve years ago) link
Anyway, back to the most important thing. A ROCK ALBUM FINALLY WON OUR POLL! lol it rocks about as hard as a single gym sock in a dryer full of towels. But, technically, it's the work of a WHITE MALE WHO PLAYS MULTIPLE INSTRUMENTS PROFICIENTLY AND HAS A BEARD.― Johnny Fever, Thursday, February 2, 2012 9:59 PM Bookmark Flag Post PermalinkI should point out that Sound of Silver won the ILM poll in 2007 and that's clearly a rock record.― Matt DC, Friday, February 3, 2012 9:50 AM Bookmark Flag Post PermalinkRock music - the work of a WHITE MALE WHO PLAYS MULTIPLE INSTRUMENTS PROFICIENTLY AND HAS A BEARD?― Les Tressle (useless chamber), Friday, February 3, 2012 5:00 AM (4 hours ago)
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, February 2, 2012 9:59 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I should point out that Sound of Silver won the ILM poll in 2007 and that's clearly a rock record.
― Matt DC, Friday, February 3, 2012 9:50 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Rock music - the work of a WHITE MALE WHO PLAYS MULTIPLE INSTRUMENTS PROFICIENTLY AND HAS A BEARD?
― Les Tressle (useless chamber), Friday, February 3, 2012 5:00 AM (4 hours ago)
If it wasn't obvious, I was completely sarcastic about this.
Also, thanks for the clarification on the Eleanoora Rosenholm Tuomas and emil.y—not a lot of background is generally provided with an mp3 download, lol.
― Johnny Fever, Friday, 3 February 2012 15:00 (twelve years ago) link
WHITE MALE WHO PLAYS MULTIPLE INSTRUMENTS PROFICIENTLY AND HAS A BEARD
what's the target of your pisstaking here JF? Kerr? Bejar? I dont quite get it...
― Today is Cocaine's Birthday! (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:10 (twelve years ago) link
Fleet Foxes
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:11 (twelve years ago) link
not sure if this when saints go machine album is truly great or if i'd just love anything featuring an arthur russell impersonator, but regardless, THANKS ILX.
― Merdeyeux, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:12 (twelve years ago) link
adam levine
xp
― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:13 (twelve years ago) link
i dont play any instruments nor do i have a beard fwiw
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:13 (twelve years ago) link
Kerr? Bejar?
Both, perhaps.
― Johnny Fever, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:14 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, When Saints Go Machine is better than any of the others I heard for the first time from higher in the list.
― Fastnbulbous, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:18 (twelve years ago) link
fyi the WSGM album IS truly great
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:20 (twelve years ago) link
ha, not my point; I meant the whole "rock #1" thing is your concern Kerr but you've never defined rock as BEARDED MAN MAKES COCAINE-FLAVORED REAGAN SCHMINDIE, and were p much rooting for PJ all along.
― Today is Cocaine's Birthday! (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:23 (twelve years ago) link
BEARDED MAN MAKES COCAINE-FLAVORED REAGAN SCHMINDIE would be another category that also includes LCD Soundsystem
― some dude, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:24 (twelve years ago) link
lol
tbh, I really didn't have a point. I was just taking a shot at Kerr who seems upset a rock album has never topped an ILM end-of-year poll and I was taking a shot at Destroyer for not being very rock while still embracing all of its trappings.
I don't know if a rock album (by Kerr's definition) will EVER win one of our polls, but Destroyer, LCDSS and, arguably, Portishead are all considered to generally fall under the rock umbrella in the rest of the world.
― Johnny Fever, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:29 (twelve years ago) link
there is really only one song on the Portishead album I would associate with rock tbh ("Small"); everything else is riding this weird edge of "trip-hop built off of bonkers source material"
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:31 (twelve years ago) link
lcd and portishead had some rock influences but imo theyre not rock bands. destroyer dont rock but i guess theyre a rock band even if that album isnt really rock , but it's certainly more than the other 2.
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:33 (twelve years ago) link
LCD IMO is way more of a rock band than Portishead
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:34 (twelve years ago) link
and ive never said ive wanted a rock band to win for the sake of it! i dont just listen to rock. I just meant that a certain type of ilm friendly album was always #1 and it was never a 'rock' album. I certainly never wanted Destroyer to win.
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:35 (twelve years ago) link
i did however have Portishead as my #1 the year it won
destroyer has made rock albums in the past, but Kaputt would not be considered a rock album by most people
― silverfish, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:35 (twelve years ago) link
pj was the last thing i cut off my ballot, but the points total in the end meant it made no difference.I prefer White Chalk to it and the 1st 3 will always be my faves.
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:37 (twelve years ago) link
silverfish more like silversock
― Phibes Kartel (NickB), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:37 (twelve years ago) link
Silverfish otm. I think kaputt meets the ilm friendly aesthetic. Its a very 80s album with keyboards
― silverfish, Friday, February 3, 2012 11:35 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
oh c'mon it would totally be considered a rock album by most people, just not most hair-splitting "tune yards is NOT underground" ILM types
― pfunkbo bryson (some dude), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:39 (twelve years ago) link
Kaputt's a rock album but not a ROCK album.
― fun loving and xtremely tolrant (Billy Dods), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:40 (twelve years ago) link
if kaputt isn't a rock record then i'm not really sure what rock is anymore
― ciderpress, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:41 (twelve years ago) link
what is rock?
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:42 (twelve years ago) link
kaputt is a rock album but it doesn't rock
― congratulations (n/a), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:43 (twelve years ago) link
no you didnt Kerr; you had Torche as your #1 that year (2008); you did however root for the winner... (multiple xposts)
― Today is Cocaine's Birthday! (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:43 (twelve years ago) link
It's a SUCK album ;-) xpost
― Sounds Of The Baskervilles (dog latin), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:44 (twelve years ago) link
it must have been my #2 then
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:44 (twelve years ago) link
george.xls btw
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:45 (twelve years ago) link
most rock doesn't rock anymore, especially on ILM lists. but i mean if something is closer to "rock" than "pop" or "dance" or whatever then c'mon most people would defer to that (unless they consider "indie" a wholly separate genre from "rock" or "indie rock," which again is some ILM hairsplitting ish)
― pfunkbo bryson (some dude), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:45 (twelve years ago) link
if indie was different to rock(ie indie bands had synths instead of guitars) then ilm might like it a bit more
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:47 (twelve years ago) link
it's only rock if I get the urge to air guitar while listening to it
― silverfish, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:48 (twelve years ago) link
yeah I think it was your #2
― Today is Cocaine's Birthday! (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:48 (twelve years ago) link
indie bands had synths instead of guitars
http://data.whicdn.com/images/9495192/dare_to_dream__by_this_is_the_life2905-d3fn4ea_large.jpg?1304662856
― bs and 'Why Do You Listen To Frog?' (DJ Mencap), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:56 (twelve years ago) link
plenty of ilxors dream of a new New Order
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, 3 February 2012 16:58 (twelve years ago) link
isn't chillwave just indie bands w/synths instead of guitars?
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 3 February 2012 16:59 (twelve years ago) link
love this post
Also I was listening to the Ayshay music loud in the afternoon and my neighbor gave me the weirdest look when I bumped into her in the elevator. She must have thought I was into black magic and shit.
― Moka, Friday, February 3, 2012 6:28 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Friday, 3 February 2012 17:00 (twelve years ago) link
good natured irl lol george.xls btw
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, February 3, 2012 10:45 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark
― La Lechera, Friday, 3 February 2012 17:02 (twelve years ago) link