ILM's Top 77 ALBUMS of 2011

should be noted that Rustie was the first cutty recommendation i did not enjoy

It should go without saying, but the "problem" with critical championing of "indie-" versions of genres (R&B, metal) etc. over and above other music from those genres is not the music per se or the fact that it's being celebrated; rather, it's that so often the form and the intent of the celebration is the revalidation of the same values, over and over and over, as if the (let's call it) p4k mindset exists in a hall of mirrors wherein all it can see is refracted images of itself splayed endlessly along an infinitely receding horizon of vassal-genres.

― Tim F, Thursday, February 2, 2012 2:23 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, indie and rock audiences primarily like indie and rock music and tend to view other types of music through that lens. this is not a "problem". everybody's got a point of view, and everybody's point of view is limited in some way or another.

the tendency of indie & rock critics to dominate the discourse might be a problem, but it's better fought by presenting alternative voices than by sniping endlessly (tediously) at whatever indie & rock critics happen to enjoy.

should be noted that Rustie was the first cutty recommendation i did not enjoy

haha the cutty rec makes me feel like i should give it another chance

i think it's the best not not fun release ever--well i haven't heard all of them, but at the very least the best in the series of bleak, monotone female-fronted mellow psych projects (us girls, pocahaunted, zola jeez, la vamp, my estrogeneration comp etc.)

despite being a somewhat marginal sound (although more broad indie acts like vivian/dum dum girls definitely overlap aesthetically) i really felt like i was rooting for these groups because i consider the style to be one of the few that feel very uniquely contemporary. but it's also one that has, until now, never produced a masterpiece, at least in full length form.

like theres still a lot of murk and dissonance but like 'tiger eyes' is so much more propulsive and catchy than its other nnf ancestors yknow?

i know! i think there's an important caveat here though. there's a smallness to this microgenre that is at the centre of what's really unique about it, both in terms of production and performance: it's like the opposite of blaring horn arrangements and loud, confident singing, more about an "uncertainty and yearning" and hesitance--that i'm glad that the breakthrough album preserved. i think the reason it's such a relief is because it had been tempting to conclude that those were its weaknesses

xp 2 lamp re: peaking lights

I was just trying to address the emerging misnomer ITT that the discussion is about whether or not musicians should be allowed to mix these things up (obv they should!).

― Tim F, Thursday, February 2, 2012 2:54 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i wasn't raging against a "never cross the streams!" strawman. i was critiquing the tendency of some critics and fans to grouse when supposedly watered-down versions of genres like R&B break through into rock & indie consciousness. this sort of grousing typically and conveniently ignores the fact that the perceived watered-down-ness of an artist like frank ocean is entirely a product of perspective.

such criticisms often seem built around the assumption that such music can only be "properly" evaluated from a within an R&B-focused context. the thinking seems to be that if dedicated R&B fans and critics don't rally around it too, validating the acclaim it's received outside the genre, then there must something wrong with both the music and with the tendency of indie/rock ppl to celebrate it. we see the same thing in metalhead complaints about the popular acclaim accorded nigel hipster interlopers like the sword and liturgy.

this sort of response is understandable, but tiresome, and it ignores the fact that music can be appreciated in ways that don't necessarily square with the aesthetics of its ostensible genre.

anyway, i voted for only three of the top ten finishers (tune yards, uncle acid and PJH). should have voted for DJ quik, but slept. destroyer gets no love. have heard it couple times, but don't get the acclaim. it's not horrible, just not my thing. like bon iver and girls. okay, well, girls is horrible. destroyer's at least better than that.

framing the argument as "watered-down" R&B vs. real R&B is kind of strawmannish fyi

contenderizer shiftin the goalposts imo

framing the argument as "watered-down" R&B vs. real R&B is kind of strawmannish fyi

it might be if i were just making that dichotomy up, but i'm trying to respond honestly to what's been said ITT.

i really felt like i was rooting for these groups because i consider the style to be one of the few that feel very uniquely contemporary

yes, totally! although i think its... telling that the approach a lot of these labels/artists have taken has been p widely appropriated throughout 'indie'.

yr post is really good but i wanted to add that i think the increased interest in dance and more purely 'electronic' styles was a way for these groups to reconcile the production/performance ideal w/a more song-based approach

nobody else actually phrased it in such a loaded, simplistic way, though, and after Tim put it in much more nuanced and precise way you just dragged the whole conversation back into the most reductive and misleading terms possible (xpost)

^^

xposts!

contenderizer's argument is kind of the flipside of mine upthread - put them together and you arrive at the situation where *nobody* gets to dominate and dictate to others what the value of a piece of music is. Which seems right to me.

Re the Not Not Fun axis: one release that got completely slept on (came out in December iirc, didn't help its cause) is the Sapphire Slows EP. 936 might still be my favourite NNF release of 2011 but True Breath is my #2.

The other big avant-accessible label this year was Spectrum Spools, but I guess they didn't have a release that everyone got passionate about and maybe they're just less visible than NNF. I did give a bunch of points to the Fabric album, which helped it break into the top 300.

I completely agree with what Tim said upthread btw.

i checked out the sapphire slows at your recommendaysh iirc. it was cool, more shimmering and logic system than the earthy & dubby peaking lights vibe. definitely cool

w/each successive release i ended up liking spectrum spools less, there was such a monotony of vision to the whole thing that it cheapened even the releases i really liked - container, forma - it hilighted how fadish and current the whole synth haze stuff has been? i mean i really like the no ufos rerelease but its not really making the same gesture '936' is

i thought the jonas reinhardt release on nnf was superb but suffered from the same lack of distinction

agree about 2011 synth boom & bust

contenderizer's argument is kind of the flipside of mine upthread - put them together and you arrive at the situation where *nobody* gets to dominate and dictate to others what the value of a piece of music is. Which seems right to me.

I agree with this, and further I also think an important part of this process is that people actually fess up to their listening strategies, and say (where necessary) "I'm listening to this through X ears".

I tend to apply dance music biases to a lot of non-dance music, but I like to think that when I do so I will admit as much, and try to position it as "an approach" that captures only a small part of the experience of the music.

Where this process gets pernicious is the cases where it's unacknowleged, where people cross-apply biases and then deny that this is what they're doing because they sincerely believe that the biases they're applying should be the truth of every genre (as if they're even "the truth" of one!).

Ha, I think I've heard the Jonas Reinhardt but not sure now. It's hard to keep up!

I agree that Spectrum Spools didn't manage to break out in the way NNF did. Both labels have an identifiable aesthetic that risks repetitiveness - with some NNF releases like the Xander Harris I had a definite feeling it was adding nothing new - but yeah, NNF has better curation, or they've been around longer, or it's a more flexible aesthetic, dunno really but they seem to be better at what they do.

weyes blood/jonas r would have been my nnf picks for the year. don't mind peaking lights but got a little tired of it quite quickly

the only reason i still dont listen to peaking lights all the time is cause my roommate got sick of it

i like that peaking lights record but i always forget i'm listening to it about halfway through. think i'd dig a remixed version though

Btw, I take no shortage of pride in the fact that the top 5 placing rap albums were all from the west coast.

Where this process gets pernicious is the cases where it's unacknowleged, where people cross-apply biases and then deny that this is what they're doing because they sincerely believe that the biases they're applying should be the truth of every genre (as if they're even "the truth" of one!).

― Tim F, Thursday, February 2, 2012 6:46 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, this is OTM. when critics who don't ordinarily fw a genre pick some random crossover attempt to champion as the best it can offer - or worse yet, as "transcending" the genre - it's annoying as hell.

EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR DESTROYER

KILL YOUR WORTHLESS SELVES

AND NEVER LOOK ME IN THE EYE AGAIN

STUPID CUNTS NEED TO GET SOME TASTE

NO EXCUSES NO EXCEPTIONS

EVERYONE WHO WAS PREVIOUSLY AN ALLY OF MINE BUT WHO EXPRESSED APPRECIATION FOR THAT PIECE OF SHIT, I AM DISAPPOINTED IN YOU

lol

hi lex

YOU LIKE DESTROYER

THEREFORE YOUR OPINIONS ARE NULL AND VOID

#1 album

http://i.imgur.com/1b6qp.png

YOUR RED FINGER IS NULL AND VOID

FUCKING DESTROYER

YOU BORING BORING INDIE CUNTS

GET THAT SHIT OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM BY NEXT YEAR

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN LIVE WITH YOURSELVES

I PITY YOU

http://i.imgur.com/cLzjy.jpg

http://knightnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/3-13-11jorts.jpg

Lex I want to apologize for not listening to LES til after my ballot was cast. If I had listened to it beforehand I wouldve voted it #1 and it would've placed higher than Destroyer.

THE MORAL VICTORY CONFIRMED

I CAN SLEEP NOW

have a good night dude

yeah uh maybe this could be a general take it down a notch moment yall

and, like this insubstantial pageant faded, leave not a track behind (xp)

yeah uh maybe this could be a general take it down a notch moment yall

― Thu'um gang (jjjusten), Thursday, February 2, 2012 11:35 PM (1 minute ago)

lex is just drunk and messin around man, no one's feelings are hurt or anything

Lex, i will be your ally.
fellow Canadian be damned - i think he sings stupidly.

this list hurt my feelings

very disappointed in u guyz

oh loool i meant that jorts img for the kevin smith thread

thx for the hint k3v i get so confused sometimes

LOLOLOLOL Lamp!

I am very happy I decided to check this thread tonight!

lmao ally

I agree with this, and further I also think an important part of this process is that people actually fess up to their listening strategies, and say (where necessary) "I'm listening to this through X ears".

I was thinking along these lines as I browsed the thread earlier in the evening, wondering why so many records in the list didn't strike me, and I think one of the main things that prevents me from being taken in by something is the sense that it's aesthetically unsure of itself, or middling, or half-assed, or somehow meek in its presentation. I think this is actually *always* something that's bothered me about certain strains of indie, and although it feels somewhat fascistic to articulate, I think I gravitate to music that sounds sure of itself and confident in its aesthetic choices.

I would rather hear the single-minded and masterful articulation of an aesthetic that doesn't quite make sense to me than someone dabbling in a field I ostensibly like but in a sort of unsure, gently exploratory manner. That's something that immediately turned me off to Nicolas Jaar, and I find it interesting/funny that Lex so vehemently criticizes Destroyer for being "meek" upthread yet is a big fan of Nicolas Jaar, who to me so *clearly* comes off the same way in his music--tentative, noncommital, afraid to lean into it. Music like this tries my patience, and at my worst almost offends me in that it asks me to come along with it even though it doesn't know where it's going. "Wait, we're miles into these dark woods and you have no idea where the fuck we are and never did?!"

I almost said something like "I miss music being more balls-out virtuosic", but that's not quite right. I mean, I do think basic technical fluency (and I'm talking songwriting-wise as well as instrument-wise) is something that sooooo many hyped musicians today just totally lack; in fact, as much as I enjoyed the Destroyer record, one of the main things that makes all those Steely Dan and Roxy Music comparisons ring false is that those older bands could really freaking PLAY, but not in an ostentatiously virtuosic manner so much as with a fluency that was so effortless it was nearly invisible.

This spreads to electronic music, too, in a way that I need to focus harder to be able to articulate. But when I think of my favorite producers, there's a sense of self-assuredness to their tracks, a feeling of authority and a sense that they know what the hell they're doing with their hardware/software--in a way that allows them to trascend it, sort of. I don't want to hear someone tinkering, and the Jaar is too close to that for me to be able to feel it. Granted, I should give it more of an effort given how many people whose taste I admire that like it, but that sense of pensiveness put me off immediately.