DEM not gonna CON dis NATION: Rolling UK politics in the short-lived post-Murdoch era

I wonder what the reaction would have been if the committee had decided not to strip him of the knighthood. Would people be applauding them for not distracting the nation with symbolic scapegoating? Or would they be furious that even this small gesture towards censure of the bankers had been resisted?

I'm pretty sure if the committee that no-one knew about and never convenes did not convene and decide anything, no one would have noticed.

You could say that about the news on any given day.

Totally. And I do.

I'm not sure this incident is as irrelevant as you think and I don't think people are stupid enough to think that this draws a line under the financial crisis and nothing more needs to be done.

You're possibly right about the first bit and while I would agree with you that people aren't stupid, I have my doubts that the government would, or that they feel under any pressure to make the systemic changes that people want to see. It's not like there's any political pressure to do so, is there?

I'm sure the last lot were just as bad but it really does seem like this government is obsessed with firing out pitiful, populist policies that are easy to understand and designed to grab media attention but which will ultimately go nowhere and make fuck all difference to anyone.

I wouldn't give a fuck personally, fuck a knighthood either way (xxp) And, yes, this is just grubby populism prompted by Miliband kicking up a stink about Stephen Hester and getting a few good write-ups as a result, it's got Osborne's fingerprints all over it

With this government I would actually prefer a bit of grubby populism to the bullish conservative dogma they run on the rest of the time. Short of them resigning en masse I'm happy to see them bow to public anger every now and then. And I disagree about there not being any political pressure to make systemic changes. Public outrage clearly isn't going away and though I wonder if Will Hutton's being too optimistic when he calls this a "turning point" I don't see this as the end of the process at all.

I don't mind them bowing to public anger every now and again, I would just prefer if they were to do so over things that are actually meaningful rather than tokenistic, with the intention of making a substantive difference rather than just placating the proles.

Public outrage clearly isn't going away

Really? I see angry Guardian columnists and pundits on TV but little evidence of the public being anything but exhausted. Maybe that's the point idk. Anyway, I hope you (and Will Hutton) are right but even I, having spent a lot of time at Occupy, feel a bit defeated.

I've spent a bit of time at Occupy and I'm prepared to admit that I'm drawn towards optimism because the alternative — as I constantly see on Twitter — is grinding impotent rage. There are some very clever, very principled people on the left who depress the fuck out of me because everything short of full-scale reform (or revolution in some cases) strikes them as worthless. I just can't function like that. Doesn't mean I'm right and they're wrong.

The party of family values.

I've spent a bit of time at Occupy and I'm prepared to admit that I'm drawn towards optimism because the alternative — as I constantly see on Twitter — is grinding impotent rage. There are some very clever, very principled people on the left who depress the fuck out of me because everything short of full-scale reform (or revolution in some cases) strikes them as worthless. I just can't function like that. Doesn't mean I'm right and they're wrong.

I think you're much more likely to be right than they are, in that it seems like you'd be satisfied with a system even a little fairer than the one we've got. I would too. But the thing is, while I'd be satisfied with modest system improvements they still have to be real, rather than symbolic, making an actual difference rather than a superficial one with a purpose beyond propping up the polls. I'm just not seeing anything even close to that.

I was feeling pretty optimistic about Occupy as well and have attended some great talks and met some really interesting people at the BofI and St Paul's, but step into the real world and no one's interested. Real people are fatigued by life or just pre-occupied with it, while the politicians don't seem to give a fuck. Despite the size of the constituency (in terms of people) they represent, they still seem to be ignorable. Because, it seems, there's no money there. Has Cameron, Clegg, Boris or even EMilli paid them a visit?

I'm not saying it's all futile but I do understand why others would think that it is.

Despite the size of the constituency (in terms of people) they represent, they still seem to be ignorable

What constituency are you talking about it? I'm glad you got something out of Occupy, but I went down there and the first thing I saw has a guy pattering away on some bongoes while another guy blew down a didgeridoo and I thought, "That's it, I'm outta here".

it's not the futility, it's the way the "slight improvements" disguise and protect the relentless destruction carried on by Capital and its fanclub that drags us to despair in the end

^^^^^

Yeah, I completely agree. Whether it's last week's who-gives-a-shit banker bonus or Fred Goodwin's peerage, it all seems to be a grand distraction from the actual things that they're doing that are massively against the public interest. Wouldn't have thought Cameron was a PR man, would you?

I can understand that the hedger/hippie/professional protester aspect of occupy can be a bit off-putting but I've been to some really interesting discussions on things like off-shore banking and corporate interests in politics as well - nothing you can't exactly get out of Private Eye but still. The MO of the whole thing is really straightforward and the constituency, as I see it, is made up of anyone frustrated with the rank unfairness of a political and corporate system that serves the few over the many. The 99% message really resonates with me in that way.

But as prominent as it's been - how much more visible can you get than the steps of St Paul's? - it's still achieved nothing and will, sooner or later go away. Apathy really is just easier.

I can understand that the hedger/hippie/professional protester aspect of occupy can be a bit off-putting

It's not very admirable I know but I kinda hate hippies more than bankers really

Yeah, I get that. I have several friends in banking and none in "campaigning", if that's something you can actually be "in".

When I went to Sussex I absolutely abhorred the whiteboy dreadlock culture that infected the place. This guy, for example, was in my year and commonly known as "Ketamine Dan". http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7520401.stm. He ended up the President of the SU. Maybe Occupy isn't different to that and I've just become a bit more tolerant as a result of reduced exposure, but it does seem like a superior, smarter - cleaner if you like - level of protest. Or maybe just more important idk.

I don't get that at all. Fucking hell, man.

I don't think Occupy has "achieved nothing" - it's prompted a debate, politicians now feel they have to talk about "responsible capitalism", mutual ownership, and so forth, even if they're doing so completely insincerely.

So it has achieved increased level of cynical lip service from politicians? Good job Occupiers.

Insincere discussion is still better than no discussion at all IMO. It's like the environment, it's evidence of attitudes becoming more mainstream. Even if today's politicians are only paying lip service, the next generation may have to take these issues more seriously.

Of course, like the environment it's something that the public in general may be happy to have opinions about until they're actually required to give something up.

politicians now feel they have to talk about "responsible capitalism", mutual ownership, and so forth, even if they're doing so completely insincerely.

― Matt DC, Thursday, February 2, 2012 12:44 PM (1 hour ago)

this crap was in the manifesto via the visionary philip blond's timorous volkism iirc

Wee sleekit timorous volkism

John Kelsey-Fry QC closed the defence case by reading out a letter sent from an undisclosed witness.

The letter detailed how Redknapp invited a wheelchair-bound former Tottenham Hotspur player to come and watch a training session.

The letter said: "How considerate and kind is that? I would say it is confirmation he is a giver, not a taker."

Phone and email records to be stored in new spy plan

Maybe David Cameron can promise to have a cup of tea with her to sort it out:

One of the biggest private sector partners for the government’s welfare-to-work programme has hit back at critics following the disclosure that police are investigating possible fraud at the company.

A4e, which makes its income entirely from government contracts, has been under scrutiny for weeks after it emerged that its founder and chairman, Emma Harrison, was paid £8.6m in an annual dividend for 2010, mainly from taxpayers’ money.

It has since emerged that the police are looking into fraud allegations at the company. Police officers visited the company’s Slough headquarters on Friday.

In a statement the Thames Valley force said its officers had gone to the premises “as part of an allegation of fraud, which was referred to the force by the department for work and pensions”.

A4e declined to comment on reports that the company allegedly claimed funding for putting clients into jobs that lasted only a day.

Margaret Hodge, who chairs the Public Accounts Committee, charged with scrutinising whether government programmes deliver value for money for the taxpayer, has tabled a parliamentary question in which she demands that the department suspend its contracts with A4e until the police investigation has been completed.

Company that runs welfare-to-work programme found to be scumbags, what a shockah!

Lansley to the rescue... of the Labour Party. Thing that I don't get is who are all these people who are still supporting the Lib Dems?

Can't hear his name now without going "Andrew Lansley GREEDY Andrew Lansley TOSSER" in my head.

Can't hear his name now without going "Andrew Lansley GREEDY Andrew Lansley TOSSER" in my head.

my gf and i are exactly the same way...

you are both GREEDY TOSSERs?

if we're at a buffet then yes

Minister disappointed by shortened Adele speech.

The healing has begun.

Mr Cameron said he was "sick of anti-business snobbery".

"In recent months we've heard some dangerous rhetoric creep into our national debate that wealth creation is somehow anti-social”

I wonder why that might be you posh, upper class twat?

"In recent months we've heard some dangerous rhetoric creep into our national debate that grinding the faces of the poor is somehow anti-social"

nah seriously tho Dave good on ya. just think where we'd be without all these new private sector careers you've created.

"Put a young person into college for a month's learning, unpaid, and it's hailed a good thing.

"Put a young person into a supermarket for a month's learning, unpaid, and it's slammed as slave labour. Put a child into a great school run by a local authority – cause for celebration. Put them into a great school backed by a bank – and that is a cause for suspicion. Frankly I am sick of this anti-business snobbery."

Put a young person into college for a month's learning, unpaid, and it's hailed a good thing.

yeah we run a lot of dead useful month-long courses you nob

"Put a young person into college for a month's learning, unpaid, and it's hailed a good thing.

"Put a young person into a supermarket for a month's learning, unpaid, and it's slammed as slave labour.

did he actually say that?? i thought i'd used up my reserves of disgust already this month, but...

Its weird how I talk about D-Camz the same way my father talks about M-Thatchz, in so much as every other sentence is 'Would like to piss on their grave'. I think this NHS thing is when I really started to up my true anti-tory rhetoric and hate.

Warms the cockles that the young 'uns are learning the old ways vis a vis Tories being lower than vermin. I hate Clegg more though.

ch✧✧✧.grayl✧✧✧@d✧✧.g✧✧.u✧

shit guys I just the government's emails!!!!1

You've lost me

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9699000/9699350.stm

He is useless. First Gove with the Trots opposing his academies plasns and now Grayling with the SWP, reds under the beds or what?

look the SWP are a very real threat to democracy in this country

heard that live thursday night and still thought you meant ac grayling

Invited to respond to these issues, a Gove spokesman declined to comment.

This is going to be huge in the long term. I can see Murdoch moving away from news and media and towards education.

He's not really going to be around for the long-term, but I think there's a difference between providing online education materials and actually running a school. That article is about the former but heavily implying the latter. I wouldn't want Murdoch anywhere near a school but the article's being a tad dishonest.

Would love to see him try and make that tablet education model work in a Kennington comp though.

John Bird, writing in The Times:

Much of the controversy about work placements has been absurd and naive. Tesco was started by Jack Cohen. He worked off a barrow in the East End nearly a century ago. He started his business to make money and Tesco has never erred from that concern ever since. So, of course, there should be no surprise that when Tesco entered the scheme - before getting cold feet and withdrawing - it wanted to maximise the benefits that free labour brings them.