the drummer left Liturgy btw
i know. :(
do they have a new drummer?
― the third kind of dubstep (Jordan), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:29 (twelve years ago) link
People started to get all upset about Nachtmystium for a while there
Ironic considering Nachtmystium was who coined the term Nigel Metal for hipsters getting into black metal.
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:29 (twelve years ago) link
I know, and I'm really bummed about this and curious to see how that affects their next record.
― Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:30 (twelve years ago) link
ha you don't want that, liturgy was the only metal album i listened to this year, unless you count dub trio.
xp
― the third kind of dubstep (Jordan), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:30 (twelve years ago) link
I guess we're talking about metal only because there's no Lana Del Rey album to argue about. Next year you will be getting nostalgic..
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:31 (twelve years ago) link
I admit I'm not so familiar with the newer acts, but I am aware that there's a lot more out there than just Liturgy. If Liturgy were blowing my mind I wouldn't have room to complain about them, but as such they're an indiefication of metal who go so far as to write "manifestos" in order to justify their own existence. These manifestos go so far as to disassociate the band with perceived BM tropes, implicitly disparaging those other bands: "We play black metal, but without all the goat-slaughtering and stuff so it's okay" - y'know, as if every BM band before them was hell-bent on sacrificial occultism.
― I want your nose, your shoes and your unicycle (dog latin), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:32 (twelve years ago) link
Fwiw, and keeping in mind I have not yet read HHH's text in full, I don't think they are trying to disparage the old acts as much as emphasize "positivity" in black metal instead of "negativity".
― Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:33 (twelve years ago) link
we scream about hope v. they scream about despair
― EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:33 (twelve years ago) link
i don't really know much about black metal but liturgy sound a lot "cleaner" than most modern black metal bands i've heard - they sound really precise and trebley and focused and repetition-based while most modern black metal sounds murkier and wandering. i think liturgy has taken out a lot of the goth/folk elements from the traditional black metal sound. this isn't a value judgement, i just think there's an obvious difference to how they sound instead of just a difference in how they look/present themselves
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:34 (twelve years ago) link
what makes liturgy "indie metal" aside from how they look?
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:35 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah n/a pretty much otm. I also hear a little bit of what Liturgy does in Krallice, to some extent.
― Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:35 (twelve years ago) link
Thing with Liturgy is, if say some ilxors wanted to check out some metal as a way in im not sure I'd say Liturgy. Even if they wanted a way in to BM, I'd pick wittr before Liturgy as a new band/album. Obv you have a good choice of classic 90s era too.I don't know who i would recommend for other sub-genres. Mastodon are more rock than metal these days. I'd recommend them to peoople who ,miss Qotsa.
If you like clean vox and proggy keyboards Id say go for the new Hammers Of Misfortune (which won metal poll) My #1 was the Corrupted album but I'd never inflict them on the uninitiated (see wiki link for why if you're curious)
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:38 (twelve years ago) link
just playing along, but interest in minimalism?
― the third kind of dubstep (Jordan), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:38 (twelve years ago) link
the manifesto is a good point. i think i said it upthread, but i will say it again. that shit reads like a dr bronner's bottle crossed with maharishi school of management jargon. why exactly is it necessary to write a manifesto? i get screaming about hope but i should be able to tell that you are screaming about hope. otherwise, why not let the listener determine/interpret for him or herself?
― La Lechera, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:38 (twelve years ago) link
n/a is OTM, which is why I don't have a problem with a black metal band in hipster clothes, but the music also SCREAMS Williamsburg-scene rock. Those Animal Collective-style segues, the Hella-style rhythm patterns, the whole Liars-ness of it. Also think the singing is pointless, almost pisstakey in it's delivery.
― I want your nose, your shoes and your unicycle (dog latin), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:38 (twelve years ago) link
I prefer Krallice to Liturgy too, but I do really like Liturgy (i obv voted for it)
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:39 (twelve years ago) link
you don't have to read it?
― the third kind of dubstep (Jordan), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:40 (twelve years ago) link
i know, but i guess i think it's obnoxious that they felt compelled to write it and tell people what their music is "about." can't we figure it out on our own? i think we can.
― La Lechera, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:41 (twelve years ago) link
Oh yeah, I want to make clear that I'm not fully standing behind the manifesto or the whole "positive" vs "negative" approach, just mentioning other ways that people might be able to make an entrance to the music. Basically, I dig what they are doing, manifesto or no, but like ASR, I prefer Krallice.
― Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:42 (twelve years ago) link
i think maybe you guys are underestimating how many modern metal bands dabble in minimalism and other forms of experimentation
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:42 (twelve years ago) link
xp to Jordan a lot of classic BM is minimal though- e.g. Darkthrone. It's been a strand for a long time.
― good luck in your pyramid (Neil S), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:42 (twelve years ago) link
or what n/a said
Those Animal Collective-style segues, the Hella-style rhythm patterns, the whole Liars-ness of it.
lol this says like 100 x more about your sphere of reference than it does Liturgy's
― bs and 'Why Do You Listen To Frog?' (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:44 (twelve years ago) link
I bought the manifesto for $4 btw. I haven't read it, I just wanted it as a curio really. If people are still talking about it in a decade or so I can say 'oh i have that'. I probably still wont read it though.
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:44 (twelve years ago) link
I know it's a completely different thing but listening to Liturgy just made me want to listen to Naked City instead
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:46 (twelve years ago) link
i think Liturgy do a very good job of marketing themselves to specific listeners (i.e. me). i mean, the first record I bought from them was the Immortal Life 12" based solely on the huge TRANSCENDENTAL BLACK METAL printed on the back of the sleeve. coming from noise and drone, i definitely saw the transcendental potential of extreme music like black metal, but I never really saw anyone embracing it as openly
― ≧^◡^≦ (diamonddave85), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:48 (twelve years ago) link
also i love the manifesto: more bands should do faux-spiritual self-mythologizing
― ≧^◡^≦ (diamonddave85), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:49 (twelve years ago) link
oh no no no no no NO
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:49 (twelve years ago) link
and that is coming from someone who spent five years listening to Insane Clown Posse
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:50 (twelve years ago) link
Also, lets not forget this album was released on Thrill Jockey and not Candlelight or Peaceville. That automatically shifts the target audience in a not insignificant way.
― Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:50 (twelve years ago) link
The manifesto just seems like an underestimation of the listener/super condescending drivel, and I would no sooner like to read his manifesto than read a pamphlet written by a painter that explains his/her painting to me. I can see having it as a curio though. It's definitely a ridiculous gesture on their part. I can ignore it, or at least try to forget that it exists.
― La Lechera, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:52 (twelve years ago) link
i recommend this interview with the dude from liturgy, he doesn't sound like a dick and plays some good tunes: http://wfmu.org/playlists/shows/39826
― the third kind of dubstep (Jordan), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:52 (twelve years ago) link
to me, the manifesto is just play: they're having fun with symbols and mythology. i don't understand the condescending reading of it that most people seem to have
― ≧^◡^≦ (diamonddave85), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:53 (twelve years ago) link
btw n/a, i like vorvolakas like 500x more than (what i remember about) liturgy, no exaggeration
― La Lechera, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:53 (twelve years ago) link
pamphlet written by a painter that explains his/her painting to me.
you mean like an "artist statement"?
(i hate these btw, although they're usually better than the art that requires a statement. i don't think liturgy's music requires an explanation at all, although it certainly got them a lot of attention.)
― the third kind of dubstep (Jordan), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:54 (twelve years ago) link
Those Animal Collective-style segues, the Hella-style rhythm patterns, the whole Liars-ness of it.lol this says like 100 x more about your sphere of reference than it does Liturgy's― bs and 'Why Do You Listen To Frog?' (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:44 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― bs and 'Why Do You Listen To Frog?' (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:44 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Mmm... Considering who they are and where they're from and who they hang out with, I don't think that's true at all. Again, I don't have a problem with people appropriating metal; but I'm less up for these guys since they make themselves out to be more than a post-rock band with screaming. Calling themselves a metal band is misleading - this is no more metal to my ears than JJ or Dirty Projectors are R'n'B, and it's disappointing to think that people might check out Liturgy and just stop there thinking that that is what BM is all about.
― I want your nose, your shoes and your unicycle (dog latin), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:54 (twelve years ago) link
xp - yeah i guess soi have no interest in reading those things
― La Lechera, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:55 (twelve years ago) link
I wish I'd have heard vorvolakas in time for my singles ballot.
― Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:55 (twelve years ago) link
who they hang out with
that's a pretty big assumption though? judging from that interview i posted, their influences are basically black metal, old chant/church music, and meshuggah.
― the third kind of dubstep (Jordan), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:56 (twelve years ago) link
also if they are engaging in play with the manifesto, that's disrespectful of the violent power of nature, which requires no explanation and speaks for itself all the time. they cannot win with the manifesto!
― La Lechera, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:56 (twelve years ago) link
i find it kinda funny that on a site that's pretty open minded when it comes to music criticism wouldn't enjoy an artist thinking critically about his art
― ≧^◡^≦ (diamonddave85), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:57 (twelve years ago) link
I don't think this site is open-minded about music criticism at all!
It is relatively open-minded about music, though.
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:58 (twelve years ago) link
who they hang out withthat's a pretty big assumption though? judging from that interview i posted, their influences are basically black metal, old chant/church music, and meshuggah.― the third kind of dubstep (Jordan), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:56 (13 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― the third kind of dubstep (Jordan), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:56 (13 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
by this, I mean they share a lot of musicians with the rest of the Williamsburg scene - e.g. the drummer plays in Dan Deacon's band AFAIK
― I want your nose, your shoes and your unicycle (dog latin), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:58 (twelve years ago) link
jordan needs to start posting new results so we can stop talking about this
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:59 (twelve years ago) link
so where can i go from liturgy, and wittr into trv kvlt black metal? i like blast beats, atmospherics, and white noise sonic assaults
― ≧^◡^≦ (diamonddave85), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 16:01 (twelve years ago) link
isn't Dan Deacon from Baltimore?
― bs and 'Why Do You Listen To Frog?' (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 16:01 (twelve years ago) link
xp Darkthrone are a good bet. Best drummer in the business IMO.
― good luck in your pyramid (Neil S), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 16:02 (twelve years ago) link
dd is from baltimore
― nathey, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 16:03 (twelve years ago) link
60. Lana Del Rey ft. Tyler the Creator – Plays Burzum (293 points, 10 votes)
P4K: DNPP&J: 1
Spotify
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 16:04 (twelve years ago) link
it's disappointing to think that people might check out Liturgy and just stop there thinking that that is what BM is all about.
that would be disappointing if it was happening to any meaningful extent yes
― bs and 'Why Do You Listen To Frog?' (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 16:05 (twelve years ago) link