ILM's Top 77 ALBUMS of 2011

The tracks that most miss out for me are those on albums which are mostly not-great but have a few standouts (ie you can't pick just one to vote for but the album's not good enough to vote for either). MJB springs to mind for last year

Yeah but if any of those MJB tracks had been out-and-out amazing you'd have voted for them anyway?

Okay, so it seems Liturgy are Black Metal to Fucked Up's hardcore punk - in this case it isn't BM at all, it's math rock/post rock with screechy vocals whereas Fucked Up do pop-rock with punk vocals.

Xp not nec! There were at least 100 out-and-out amazing tracks I didn't have room to vote for

fwiw i really like the drum sound on the liturgy record, and the WITTR record makes me think "why do drums usually sound so terrible on metal records?"

so in a roundabout way dog latin is saying Liturgy is hipster metal made by indie kids and not proper metal at all?

I wonder if Mastodon will place if we're talking about awesome drummers.

I guess this is all a symptom of the net and the way it's bolstered listeners into having "eclectic" tastes. The more websites like Pitchfork are expected to diversify from their original indie-rock template, the more a market opens up for music from disparate styles that somehow fits into this template.

I feel kind of precious for listening to Liturgy and saying "but that's not Black Metal!", but I'd say I'm justified in the same way the Lex will complain about The Weeknd and Frank Ocean - by fitting into this eclectic schema, these acts lose a lot of their edge. Liturgy's all very well, but why listen to these guys when there's probably a grillion more worthy metal albums out there not getting the same kind of attention? Well that's obvious - Liturgy are approachable, they speak frankly and openly in interviews, they're not from inaccessible Scandinavian outback, they don't wear fright make-up and chainmail and they don't go around burning churches and eating each other's brains - all factors which make the genre inaccessible to the casual fan. But if you take these away, what are you left with? A BBFC-approved version of the original style with all the cigarettes airbrushed out. No offence to people who come to metal via Liturgy, however I can imagine the majority of newcomers approach Liturgy as exactly that - a "safe" gateway into a style that bypasses all those difficult hurdles that people have trouble with when listening to albums like Filosofem or Battles In The North. But by avoiding these obstacles, you're not so much jumping in the deep end as wading around in the surf, which isn't really any fun at all.

i like to imagine he looks like HEALTH's drummer

I don't have much of a problem with anything that dog latin has to say (though I can certainly see arguments against it) except for the assertion that wading around in the surf is no fun. Wading around in surf is totally fun. Seriously. Get to a beach, try it, then tell me you had no fun. You'd be lying.

Save us, Johnny Fever!

Landfill was the big post-Libertines Top 40 stuff like the Kooks, View, Fratellis, etc

This is largely true. However, I will note that the Fratellis' "Chelsea Dagger" is the theme song for the Chicago Blackhawks hockey team. Like, whenever they score a goal, the stadium blares the song and everyone sings along. Kind of funny b/c most people here don't even know who the band is.

ah, emil.y I guess that's where the rule is dis-proven because I'm completely guilty of "paddling" when it comes to genres like r'n'b, which unlike metal I didn't really have a lot of exposure to in my former years. As a dilettante who's nevertheless willing to hear more, I'm still naturally drawn to the more Pitchfork-y end of the genre (Badu, Monae, Ocean et al). I still find some of the more outré r'n'b tropes hard to grasp onto, maybe even off-putting. And while I'm aware that many will dismiss the above artists as perhaps lacking in something or other, I still find them a useful access point.

Yeah, its so weird that that song is pretty much universally known around Chicago as "that Blackhawks song", sort of like Gary Glitter's "Rock and Roll Part 2" has basically been "the Bulls intro song" since the Jordan era.

(xpost re jaymc's post)

I was actually being an annoying literalist, tbh.

the Fratellis' "Chelsea Dagger" is the theme song for the Chicago Blackhawks hockey team

Hockey + barroom Britpop are basically made for each other. Wasn't Song 2 a big hockey tune?

The tune from "Chelsea Dagger", incidentally, was written by me when I got my first guitar. Ten years later and it's a big hit. Drat.

dog latin is rich

Erykah Badu was embraced by R&B fans well before Pitchfork was.

But I suppose the issue with eclecticism is that it can end up going one of two ways - constant collaging and changing and mixing leading to fresh sounds and new forms, or ending up with a homogenised landscape where everything is mixed up but nothing is on the outskirts pushing in a new direction.

er that wasn't right

Erykah Badu was embraced by R&B fans well before she was embraced by Pitchfork.

Badu maybe not so much DJP, true.

I was wondering what you were on about there.

just talking shit, ignore me. when's the countdown gonna return?

I first heard of the Liturgy album from Doran, a couple of months before it came out. I was p eager about it, and when I saw that some blog had offered a preview track--"Returner"--I snatched it up. I think that turned out to be the second track, ie one of the tracks that ppl on this thread did NOT at all like. But I was very taken with it. I was not familiar with black metal as a genre at all, but even I coiuld tell there was something different about it: I kept feeling like it should have its own genre, like "blue metal" or "sky metal": to these ears at least, that song was all soar and swoop.

The Quietus wrote:

they forge a unique sound that uses the form of black metal not to reflect on the cruelty and isolation of existence but to harness the elemental violence of nature

which to me was otmfm.

Unfortunately, when I finally listened to the album, I found it tedius. Turns out "Returner" was all I needed for them, so I voted for that song high on my tracks ballot, and left Aesthethica off my albums ballot...

I've only heard two Joy Formidable: "The Last Drop" which was nominated in the all-time shoegazer list last year--where I voted for it--and "Whirring". Whirring is okay, but I'm just happy that it turned out that the JFs were the WElsh version of the Silversun Pickups (a far far better band than Yuck)

D'oh, I actually didn't mean you then, I meant DJP's garbled post where he seemed to be asserting that R&B fans now love Pitchfork. Which they might do, I guess, I dunno.

xpost

loads of xps later

that shd read 'two Joy Formidable SONGS' btw. smh @ myself

D.A.M. - I don't listen to BM that much any more at all. I think what I'm saying is people shouldn't just check out Liturgy, give it a quick listen and then stop at that. It's really not that remarkable and the aesthetic angle they're going for has more in common with Mogwai or Liars or Lightning Bolt than any metal I can think of. I really despise myself for saying these things as there's nothing worse than a "True Metal" boor, but hey that's my feeling on the subject.

Also, only listening to the first track on that Liturgy album is not really the way to go. If you want to sample only one song I'd say either "Returner", "Generation", or "Veins of God" would be the way to go. The first track doesn't really do their approach justice, imho.

not to reflect on the cruelty and isolation of existence but to harness the elemental violence of nature
see to me, these are sort of the same thing, so i was disappointed when i really didn't hear it. maybe i didn't give it a chance? i like black metal but liturgy just didn't speak to me. it's also possible i was in the wrong mood the one time i gave it a chance...

I'll try again if you guys think it's worth it. Sometimes I just feel like I'm biting at the "violent nature" catnip though.

Well I definitely think Liturgy is distinctly (and purposefully!) far removed from what other black metal bands have been doing. I think its actually easier for someone with little black metal experience to get into Liturgy, but I'm having trouble with spelling out exactly why. For me, I hated Liturgy at first, but once I kind of realigned my expectations and approached it differently from standard black metal, I was able to really appreciate it on its own terms.

i can totally see why someone who cares about black metal would get annoyed with liturgy and the attention that they've gotten, but i do think they're doing something remarkable. not necessarily better than straight-up black metal but different enough. they might be coming from a different perspective and appropriating black metal tropes, but i don't think it's being done in a cynical way, and they execute it really well.

Jordan very much otm wrt to that post, they are doing something remarkable and I think a good sign that it works is how many "tr00 kvlt" fans are pissed off by it.

not to reflect on the cruelty and isolation of existence but to harness the elemental violence of nature
see to me, these are sort of the same thing, so i was disappointed when i really didn't hear it. maybe i didn't give it a chance? i like black metal but liturgy just didn't speak to me. it's also possible i was in the wrong mood the one time i gave it a chance...

― La Lechera, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 14:59 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yeah, this is what I got - to me BM has to project images and ideas - it's gotta be more than just playing fast and howling. Those first couple of Emperor albums, as an example, have the power to transport me. It's like watching an epic fantasy movie or getting immersed in a good video game. It's supposed to be imaginative, mood-setting, and I don't get that from Liturgy. I also don't understand the distinction in the quote, nor how a number of metal (and hardcore, especially hardcore) bands don't do this kind of thing already. It makes me wonder if Liturgy have actually got the idea of BM completely wrong, making it out to be nothing but cruel, negative ruminations on death when really it's a lot more complex than that.

how come you never see intense no wave fans moaning about Liturgy shitting up Glen Branca's wall-o-guitar stylings with stupid banshee metal screeching

that's what I want to know

Jordan very much otm wrt to that post, they are doing something remarkable and I think a good sign that it works is how many "tr00 kvlt" fans are pissed off by it.

― Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:15 (14 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I'm honestly not being facetious here, but what exactly is remarkable about this? To me it sounds exactly like what Liars would make if they decided to "go metal" - I don't see that as remarkable from a metal POV or an indie POV?

however I can imagine the majority of newcomers approach Liturgy as exactly that - a "safe" gateway into a style that bypasses all those difficult hurdles that people have trouble with when listening to albums like Filosofem or Battles In The North.

Those albums are 15+ years old now. Of course newcomers are going to check out modern bands. Thankfully we haven't hit Classic Extreme Metal era yet like with Rock, where people only check out metal from 30/40 years ago.
Also its rather telling that dog latin brings up older bands as he hasn't listened to metal in about a decade at least so cant name any modern day touchstones.

and ANYTHING is better than nu-metal or metalcore which have been the biggest commercial sub-genres for 15 years and also the worst thing to hit metal since the shitty glam era bands.

sure, but i don't see what any of that's got to do with it, Kerr.

i totally get epic fantasy movie from this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pt4K7KvJcI

To me it sounds exactly like what Liars would make if they decided to "go metal" -

liars or mogwai would never be able to pull off what's happening rhythmically here.

Imho, Liturgy's approach is remarkable only because they are bringing an entirely new approach to black metal, which has traditionaly been a very rigid genre. I'm not the guy to effectively break down the differences, but when you've listened to a lot of black metal you can get a feel for how different their approach really is. One way I've really noticed is the drumming, which is shift off the rest of the band in a way that you rarely encounter in black metal.

charlie you need to listen to more metal this year! (and check out good stuff you missed since you stopped paying attention.)

i am arguing about metal on the internet!

the drummer left Liturgy btw

People started to get all upset about Nachtmystium for a while there, and then Liturgy came along and now no one cares how super goth dance "No Funeral" sounds. Do they? (I personally love that song, but I am a Nachtmystium stan/apologist) I guess they will either stick with this sound or ditch it for their next album, thereby illustrating how they were just dressing up as a metal band, etc.

I don't really care either way tbh. I am also arguing about metal on the internet.

there's more chat about metal on this thread than on the metal poll thread. Where were you guys? Vote next year!

the drummer left Liturgy btw

i know. :(

do they have a new drummer?

People started to get all upset about Nachtmystium for a while there

Ironic considering Nachtmystium was who coined the term Nigel Metal for hipsters getting into black metal.