TS: R.E.M.'s "Life's Rich Pageant" vs "Document"

So Alfred are you saying it's only almost-great because some of the lyrics are opaque? Might have been full-on great if he'd been saying something more explicit?

I saw them do it live a couple of years ago and he was talking about how he never gets to catch his breath in the song and (goofing) fell down when it was over.

Do it sound to anyone like a different take punched in when he gets to the line "Trust in your calling?"

Lifes Rich Pageant, though I've burned out on bits of it a little, and NEVER liked What If We Give It Away, is just packed with great songs that SOUND great. No contest.

always thought it was "i believe the poles are shifting"

But yes, LRP is pretty much perfect - great songs, lots of variety, stellar lead and backing vox and a really punchy, garagey sound. No duff tracks, in comparison with the wretched 'It's the End Of The World', and the dull Fireplace and Lightnin' Hopkins. I'm not sure about Exhuming McCarthy either. I hated it at first, but now I think it's a half-written curio, perhaps not bad, but sub-standard definitely. I've always loved Welcome To The Occupation - great vocals on that, especially near the end : 'Listen To Meee, LISTEN to MEEE'.

I also think that Fables might be the best of the lot though.

It's his enunciation that's imprecise.

If you really stretch the idea, "Disturbance at the Heron House" has a subtle political message, though, even if it is (I agree) child-like (but not childish). It's somewhat of a cry against mindlessly obeying authority. And it has a nice opening riff from Peter Buck to coat the messsage.

"You're sharpening stones, walking on coals
To improve your business acumen."

and

"Vested interest united ties, landed gentry rationalize
Look who bought the myth, buy jingo, buy America"

I don't know, I think that's much more clear (and less subtle) than anything on LRP, though I like the song enough, anyway (just the sharp horn-break with the "McCarthy hearings" sound-bite is enough for me to like it).

Put a gun to my head and demand I choose one over the other, I'd probably go with LRP. That being said, Document heads into some interesting sonic territory on side two, once you pass "The One I Love." I'm thinking of "Fireplace," "Lightning Hopkins" and "Oddfellows 151" in particular. The band cooked up some new studio ideas with percussion and guitar for those, leading to a new style for them, kind of a feeback laden, Mission of Burma/Gang of Four-ish style, with maybe even some Sonic Youth moves dropped in (I'm pretty sure Peter Buck was name dropping SY in the press by 1987).

But, recently a friend gave me a dvd of an rem concert on some german show (the same show that wire dvd is from) and it was in support of fables and they played hyena and fall on me (with improvised verses), so they definitely wrote those themselves.

whoa! can anyone else substantiate this?

It's tough.

it was a secret supposedly to the public, but in athens people were like "oh yeah that guy just lives off of rem royalties because he wrote most of lifes rich pageant". and these were mutual friends saying this. i never knew him well enough to hear it from his mouth, but that's what his friends said. i remember thinking at the time it was weird that someone could just live off of songwriting royalties but now that i know more about bizzzzzzzzzzz it makes sense.

i had a friend who went to iu at the time, she told a funny story about stipe showing up at hoosier parties.

Offering the educated
Primitive and loyal

Our father's father's father tried
Erased the parts he didn't like

What the heck is going on at the beginning of “Superman”?

The scratchy spoken intro is attributed to a Japanese pull-string Godzilla doll.[3] Translated loosely from the Japanese, it says, "This is a special news report. Godzilla has been sighted in Tokyo Bay. The attack on it by the Self-Defense Force has been useless. He is heading towards the city. Aaaaaaaaagh...."

Oh yeah, I do hear the word “Gojira” now

I think 'Disturbance At The Heron House' might be one of his finest vocal melodies, I often wonder if it was difficult to replicate in a live setting because he always used a slightly lower, less vaulting melody.

Not my favourite R.E.M. era. Picking "Life's Right Pageant" because "Fall On Me".

Life's Rich Pageant is gorgeous, but I dunno it was a more vulnerable time for me and I can't listen to it. At the time I liked it more, but now that I'm a mean crusty old fart, I prefer Document 'cos it's louder and darker.

Fables > LRP > Document

I think. I love it all but Document seems a little... icy?

Icy? It's literally the one they told you to "File Under Fire"!

document has a hell of a side two cf. "fireplace". i prob prefer it to both fables and lrp at this point, it's so endearingly odd and transitional

I was actually just listening to Document straight through for the first time in a couple of years and "fire" is the right word for it. "Finest Worksong" sounds to me like a band that's just absolutely GOING for it, straining to throw every possible sound at the problem.

also forever thankful to r.e.m. for introducing me to wire. great cover too

That cover is probably the best representation in their official recorded output of the insanely great house party band they were in 1980-81

good point! you can hear a twisted version of that party on "Lightnin' Hopkins" too.

side 2 of Document is brittle spooky forest music, like let's rub ourselves in mud and run through the jungle, way past the Heron House

OTM Brad. I think side 2 of Document is a career highlight. If LRP was a tentative exploration of how they could pursue a more direct sound and remain eccentric, Document is a band fully at home in it's new sound, finding out it's still a pretty weird place anyway.

I adore Document.

you're not yet young
there's time to teach

Swan Swan H < King of Birds (close)

I no longer thing this is close, King of Birds by a wide margin (but both are great)