I agree. This is the same with the Booker Little material as well. I understand how it can sound pretty tame ("hard bop with more hot sauce," I like it) but those records are amazing. Both Booker Little and Dolphy are such distinct voices. Dolphy may use the same tricks but they're good tricks, and he doesn't approach a song or a solo like anyone else.
When I was in college, I met a guy who had no jazz at all in his collection (he listened to Phish and stuff) except for the Eric Dolphy box set, which he wanted to talk about for days and days. So Oystein you are on to something. Also, Ellington Newport '56 you can find on vinyl for a few bucks pretty easily.
― mcd (mcd), Friday, 15 July 2005 12:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 15 July 2005 13:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― B Nasty (B Nasty), Saturday, 16 July 2005 17:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Saturday, 16 July 2005 17:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― deej.., Saturday, 16 July 2005 18:14 (eighteen years ago) link
sun ra would be the king of this, no? people with 4000 rock CDs and 40 sun ra CDs. and pharoah sanders too, probably.
a little-known fun-fact about me: i listen to almost NO free jazz. maybe in my old age. i listen to jazz from the 20s to the 50s and then i mostly skip to the 70s.and not the atonal 70's. not to say that there aren't a ton of jazz records that i like from the 60's, but most of them wouldn't be considered free jazz. i'll get to it all eventually, but there is so much from the 40s/50s that i haven't heard yet. and that's the stuff that really dig. when i've heard every hampton hawes record then maybe i'll get to cecil taylor.
― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 16 July 2005 20:01 (eighteen years ago) link
There's also a ridiculously lively Dolphy - Mingus duologue on Mingus in Europe ...whether on Vol.1 or Vol.2, tho, me donts remember any more, alas :/
― t**t, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 14:32 (sixteen years ago) link
good lord i love eric dolphy. "hat and beard"!
― strongohulkington, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 14:37 (sixteen years ago) link
I'll raise my hand as another rock guy who fell head-over-heels for Dolphy the minute I heard him. (No homo.)
Still my favorite jazz soloist, especially in contexts like the Mingus stuff or Ole! where he has a strong foil.
― Jon Lewis, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 15:07 (sixteen years ago) link
booker little is a totally underrated trumpet player btw who died at the age of 23
― deej, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 15:33 (sixteen years ago) link
Love the vol.1 and 2 Dolphy/Little 5 Spot albums! Little's playing is awesome on there. Have the vol.3 which is actually titled something like Booker Little Memorial Album, but haven't warmed to that one yet.
― Jon Lewis, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 15:38 (sixteen years ago) link
S: Charles Mingus, The Great concert of Charles Mingus
D: Fuckers who let him die without treatment cause they thought he was overdosing.
― Oilyrags, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 15:40 (sixteen years ago) link
So glad I got Out to Lunch in the Tower implosion. Long overdue.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 15:42 (sixteen years ago) link
Yeah, Dolphy's circumstance of death is still teeth-grindingly maddening today.
― Jon Lewis, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 15:57 (sixteen years ago) link
I read somewhere recently that in his last days he was basically living on honey and weed. What a waste.
― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 16:00 (sixteen years ago) link
That doesn't sound like good fare for a diabetic. Well, the honey anyhow. Don't know about the weed.
― Jon Lewis, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 16:16 (sixteen years ago) link
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000000YNU/sr=8-1/qid=1202019095/ref=dp_image_0/103-3676940-5584655?ie=UTF8&n=5174&s=music&qid=1202019095&sr=8-1
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 3 February 2008 06:13 (sixteen years ago) link
Don't know if you guys can see that, but it was supposed to be the cover of Ron Carter's Where?, on which Dolphy plays real goodly.
I heard Out to Lunch for the first time last Spring and was disappointed to find it didn't really do anything for me, but I'm loving the shit out of his playing on this. Maybe I'll give it another shot.
Loving the sound of the bass clarinet!
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 3 February 2008 06:15 (sixteen years ago) link
one of my favorite pieces of music film. dolphy's gotta be, what, a few months from death there?
― tipsy mothra, Sunday, 3 February 2008 06:24 (sixteen years ago) link
can't really fathom 'Out to Lunch' "not doing anything" to anyone predisposed to like Dolphy ... I mean that's just crazy, it's his masterpiece
― Stormy Davis, Sunday, 3 February 2008 08:11 (sixteen years ago) link
well i guess maybe those solo "God Bless the Child" are his masterpiece, but in terms of ALBUMS ...
― Stormy Davis, Sunday, 3 February 2008 08:12 (sixteen years ago) link
I know, right? I was surprised too. I need to run by it again.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 3 February 2008 08:16 (sixteen years ago) link
ah .. it is what it is .. you also might wanna make your way toward that Coltrane 'Europe Tours' box set .. much of which had been bootlegged for a while but finally came out when that Pablo box was released a couple of years ago. Just a fucking insane pairing .. we all know the Village Vanguard LP, but the Europe tour was insanity in its niceness
― Stormy Davis, Sunday, 3 February 2008 08:28 (sixteen years ago) link
Will keep an eye out, thanks.
Still saving up for the Seven Steps box, though!
Gah Columbia & your exorbitantly priced 34 disc sets
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 3 February 2008 08:35 (sixteen years ago) link
I understand OTL "not doing anything" for a Dolphy fan. I love Dolphy, and before a major CD theft a couple of years ago, I had just about everything he's ever played on. "Out To Lunch" is great, but it's awfully mannered. I understand Blue Note allowed for lots of rehearsal time, and I'm not averse to rehearsing per se, but OTL sounds rehearsed to me, in a way that doesn't serve the music as well as I'd like it to.
I personally much prefer the "Iron Man" and "Conversations" sessions from the previous year, compiled as "Dolphy Sound," featuring Woody Shaw, Bobby Hutcherson, Clifford Jordan, Prince Lasha, Sonny Simmons...
― Usual Channels, Sunday, 3 February 2008 14:08 (sixteen years ago) link
supposedly tony williams lobbied hard to get dolphy in miles' band (in the position later filled by wayne shorter). miles was dead against it, but holy shit, can you imagine?
― Lawrence the Looter, Sunday, 3 February 2008 20:57 (sixteen years ago) link
That would've been crazy.
That rejection would have come before Sam Rivers' short tenure in Davis' band, meaning that Williams must have had a pretty serious mission trying to get Miles with more "out" musicians.
― Usual Channels, Sunday, 3 February 2008 21:11 (sixteen years ago) link
williams loved the avant-garde players. he used to sit in with cecil taylor, bill dixon, and others in the loft above the village vanguard during set breaks when miles' band was playing downstairs. miles wasn't happy about it, especially when williams expressed his preference for, and desire to play with, the more "out" musicians (dixon reportedly advised williams to stick with miles: "i'm not working. cecil's not working. miles is working.")
― Lawrence the Looter, Sunday, 3 February 2008 21:31 (sixteen years ago) link
Lawrence, do you know what the loft above the Vanguard was called? Or what years it was active?
I'm interested in the lofts in NYC (I interviewed Rivers at the former site of Rivbea, Joe Lee Wilson at the former site of Ladies Fort, etc.)...
― Usual Channels, Sunday, 3 February 2008 22:19 (sixteen years ago) link
i think at that time (early/mid 60s) it was known as the Contemporary Center.
― Lawrence the Looter, Monday, 4 February 2008 04:52 (sixteen years ago) link
http://images.umvd.com/aec/Toenails/84855c8f145c4735a6ad14cab78b638c.jpg
― am0n, Monday, 4 February 2008 05:00 (sixteen years ago) link
ok that looks awesome
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 4 February 2008 05:34 (sixteen years ago) link
First place I ever heard "Green Dolphin Street."
― Oilyrags, Monday, 4 February 2008 05:39 (sixteen years ago) link
Yeah, one of teh three great "Out..." Dolphy albums, with "Out There" and "Out To Lunch"!
― Myonga Vön Bontee, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 00:49 (sixteen years ago) link
speaking of "Free Jazz," nobody has mentioned Free Jazz: A Collective Improvisation By The Ornette Coleman Double Quartet
I haven't heard a ton of Dolphy, but love everything I've heard. Ingenuity, Integrity, Soul.
― nicky lo-fi, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 09:34 (sixteen years ago) link
Brian Case once (approvingly) described Dolphy's bass clarinet as "snorting like a happy hippo" which I think entirely apt.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 09:47 (sixteen years ago) link
I attended a Cecil Taylor workshop a year or two ago where he talked about the sole time he played with Dolphy, in a loft on 14th street. CT admitted that he was not able to figure out what Dolphy was doing, and therefore not able to play with him effectively.
― Usual Channels, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 14:55 (sixteen years ago) link
...This confounded me and my expectations.
― Usual Channels, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 14:57 (sixteen years ago) link
In a way, I can see what Cecil means. Dolphy often made big harmonic/melodic leaps, whereas someone like Jimmy Lyons stayed within certain harmonic regions for longer periods.
― Sara Sara Sara, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 16:04 (sixteen years ago) link
I agree with you, Sarax3, considering Lyons plus some of CT's other reed-playing sidemen of the era. Lyons was definitely of a Charlie Parker mold, Shepp was awfully blues-based, and Ayler, though clearly steeped in his own conception, didn't exactly have an impenetrable system.
It makes sense that two artists with such developed and unique methods of playing and composing may have trouble being compatible.
Still, when I think of the skill, imagination, and vitality of both artists, I easily imagine them finding common ground. (Hence, the confounding...)
― Usual Channels, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 23:16 (sixteen years ago) link
Curious how Dolphy seemed to fit into the music of that other renegade/revolutionary pianist Little Richard fairly comfortably (have a look at the horn section the next time you watch The Girl Can't Help It - there he is, complete with trademark goatee).
Also his successful spell with Chico Hamilton probably indicated that more space was an advantage for him - note how on Out To Lunch he uses Bobby Hutcherson's vibes instead of piano.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 08:17 (sixteen years ago) link
Dingbod--that's insane!
Are we sure?
I've never heard of Dolphy with Little Richard, I can only find a blog entry mentioning it, and if memory serves, the Simosko bio/disco makes no mention. I even tooled around on Youtube, to no avail...
― Usual Channels, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 10:25 (sixteen years ago) link
He's definitely on there, though.
I remember watching the film as a kid on Saturday afternoon BBC2 and my dad pointed him out (first on the left?) and it was definitely him. Dolphy's presence was confirmed in the NME about ten years later.
― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 10:34 (sixteen years ago) link
Neat!
― Usual Channels, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 11:25 (sixteen years ago) link
Is the sound on the RVG edition of Out to Lunch significantly better than the original issue CD (which I have)? Some of those RVG's can be a bit hit and miss. I'm in Tokyo right now so perhaps I should consider picking up one of the Japanese edtions...
― sam500, Thursday, 7 February 2008 00:43 (sixteen years ago) link
I think the sound might be why I was so turned off by it the first time!
It was my first RVG and I was horrified. Then I realized it was a trend, but I haven't gone back to OTL since.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 7 February 2008 00:44 (sixteen years ago) link
yeah, we had the RVG discussion on one or two other threads. Short version: avoid them
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 7 February 2008 00:45 (sixteen years ago) link
thanks for the advice :)
― sam500, Thursday, 7 February 2008 00:54 (sixteen years ago) link
fwiw it took me a while to realize. it was totally "doth my ears deceive me?" b/c I knew RVG had engineered so many originally great-sounding records. I think it was the Maiden Voyage that pushed me over the edge, but I only felt sure of my opinion once I realized that others were experiencing the same
― Hurting 2, Thursday, 7 February 2008 01:01 (sixteen years ago) link
some of the RVG's that i've heard have been a bit on the bright side. and an overly 'bright' sounding OTL would be too tiring for my ears.
― sam500, Thursday, 7 February 2008 01:05 (sixteen years ago) link
David Murray on a buncha stuff, but especially Jack DeJohnette's Special Edition.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4m9RsRucuM
― Ari (whenuweremine), Wednesday, 15 April 2015 16:55 (eight years ago) link
jfc I only today learned how the man died. Now I'm fucking angry.
In 1964, Dolphy fell into a coma due to undiagnosed/untreated diabetes in Berlin. He was a teetotaler who didn't smoke, but docs, hearing he played jazz, assumed he'd OD'd and didn't even take a blood test. He died at 36 for absolutely no reason https://t.co/CiAlZYeTzA— jo livingstone (@Jo_Livingstone) June 29, 2020
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 30 June 2020 03:43 (three years ago) link
jeez
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 30 June 2020 03:47 (three years ago) link
Shocking waste of a life. Monk and Powell also had some very rough treatment by cops and doctors who decided a few rounds of electroconvulsive therapy might make them better!
― calzino, Tuesday, 30 June 2020 08:36 (three years ago) link
I forgot to add the clubs to head therapy from the cops as well.
― calzino, Tuesday, 30 June 2020 08:43 (three years ago) link
cops & their psychiatric equivalents basically destroyed monk’s career and life, it’s amazing he got anything done
on dolphy, he gets respect but still feels underrated somehow, maybe bc he didn’t start an obvious “movement”, falls somewhere between bop and “free” with most of playing, recorded lots of his best stuff as sideman. had he lived he would have certainly gone to wilder places, was planning collaboration with ayler, would have done ascension etc. I would also have liked to hear him with/against mid-60s sonny rollins, maybe in the band with don cherry. and an anthony braxton style solo album with all his instruments would have been amazing
― If you choose too long a name, your new display name will be truncated in (Left), Tuesday, 30 June 2020 11:04 (three years ago) link
dolphy solo recordings: inner flight 1 & 2 (flute), tenderly (alto), various god bless the childs (bass clarinet)- any more?
also did he play regular clarinet anywhere except for that one track on “out there”?
― If you choose too long a name, your new display name will be truncated in (Left), Tuesday, 30 June 2020 11:14 (three years ago) link
I dunno about solos, but i'll always rep for Where and The Quest which are others albums with a lot of Dolphy greatness on them
― calzino, Tuesday, 30 June 2020 11:29 (three years ago) link
not had a good Dolphy listening spree for years now, sounds like a plan!
― calzino, Tuesday, 30 June 2020 11:36 (three years ago) link
He plays clarinet on "Warm Canto" on "The Quest". There's a Dolphy docu on YouTube called "Last Date".
― EvR, Tuesday, 30 June 2020 18:51 (three years ago) link
on dolphy, he gets respect but still feels underrated somehow, maybe bc he didn’t start an obvious “movement”, falls somewhere between bop and “free” with most of playing, recorded lots of his best stuff as sideman. had he lived he would have certainly gone to wilder places, was planning collaboration with ayler, would have done ascension etc. I would also have liked to hear him with/against mid-60s sonny rollins, maybe in the band with don cherry. and an anthony braxton style solo album with all his instruments would have been amazing― If you choose too long a name, your new display name will be truncated in (Left), Tuesday, 30 June 2020 11:04 (eight hours ago) link
― If you choose too long a name, your new display name will be truncated in (Left), Tuesday, 30 June 2020 11:04 (eight hours ago) link
I don't usually get too hung up on artists who passed early & wondering what could have been but Dolphy does feel like for all of the greatness he produced in his lifetime he was only getting started and he that he set a template for so many horn players who followed him (playing multiple different instruments for inst) and that he already had formed a relationship with the early Euro free scene (Mengelberg & Bennink on Last Date), who knows he could've been making records with Derek Bailey & Brotzmann as well.
― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 30 June 2020 19:28 (three years ago) link
so damned sad
"Jazz on a Summer's Day," a concert film of the 1958 Newport Jazz Festival, has a couple of brief scenes of Dolphy playing with the Chico Hamilton Quintet ... it was on TCM recently
― Brad C., Tuesday, 30 June 2020 23:12 (three years ago) link
He has always been my favorite jazz soloist.
― gnarled and turbid sinuses (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 30 June 2020 23:35 (three years ago) link
another great album with some prime Dolphy is Max Roach's Percussion Bitter Sweet.
― calzino, Wednesday, 1 July 2020 11:25 (three years ago) link
the lyrics to the vocal track Mendacity (with nice Dolphy solo) still ring true (politicians are a bunch of cunts).
― calzino, Wednesday, 1 July 2020 11:31 (three years ago) link
Eric Dolphy is definitely one of the great tragedies in an art form that's had far too any. It's very possible he hadn't reached his full potential which is simply astonishing when we have a masterpiece like Out to Lunch. With the loss of Coltrane and Dolphy and what they were beginning to explore with the possibilities opened up by free jazz, the loss is pretty immense. It would've been fascinating to see how things would've played out in the coming decade.
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 1 July 2020 17:15 (three years ago) link
TIL Eric Dolphy recorded Ornette Coleman’s “Free Jazz” and his own “Far Cry” on the same day. And at two studios separated by a ~30 min drive, no less. Just incredible!— Ezra Brooks (@ezbrooks) November 25, 2020
― calzino, Thursday, 26 November 2020 22:44 (three years ago) link
two of the best purchases I've made this year were two double LP reissues from the early 70's, one just called Dolphy which includes Out There and Outward Bound, and another called Copenhagen Concert which is vols 1 and 3 of Live in Europe. On Prestige, they sound amazing and can be found for bargain prices (I paid $10 a piece). You don't get the cool original artwork but you do get some liner notes.
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Sunday, 14 January 2024 18:13 (two months ago) link
i have that same Copenhagen Concert 2xLP. it's awesome and sounds so good
― budo jeru, Monday, 15 January 2024 04:01 (two months ago) link