Do you need to know the rules to break the rules? -- free jazz, improv, noise, etc

I'll get around to writing you back today, hopefully!

I am the fly in your ointment, I can spread more disease, blah blah blah, I BETTER BUY MYSELF A NEW REFERENCE, MISTER!

Yeah, I dunno about the Hagerty. I'd rather see a unglorious mess than a polished turd, myself.

What do you think of Meg White?

2. how is Hagerty's solo album (does he have more than one)?. i heard a clip of it once and was kinda into it. weird soul w/super fat low end bass. sounded kinda cool and i keep seeing it around, but keep passing it up.

Here's where I disagree. Free jazz definitely has rules, and if anything, it's a common misconception that it doesn't (a misconception that has harmed the career of nearly every freejazzer that never "went straight" later). Most all of the first and second wave dudes and dudettes (very rare, but there are some) that played this music knew the jazz rules because they had already played for years.

Improv, having come out of free jazz practices, is a bit more free-for-all but was still played by dudes and dudettes with backgrounds in other, more rule-based music. I have a hard time believing that even the freest, most-outest improvisor doesn't bring something to the table in terms of experience, conception, rule-understanding, technique, etc. (i.e. Evan Parker may sound like "noise" to the free jazz trad philistines (yes there are some) on freejazz.org, but he can play anything with rules and melody if he wants so fuck them).

I'm not sure if there's any rules for noise, but then again I'm not sure if noise is a genre.

And where does Reynols fit in all this?

I think it's really all about concept guiding execution. Which is why some garage bands (like, say, the Oblivians) work for me, whereas some don't (like, say, The White Stripes).

Reynols = No Existen

no, it wasn't a comparison - > (greater than).

where does jean dubuffet's music fit in? he literally didn't know how to play ANY instruments...

that more or less expresses my attitude towards this thread.

Personally I'm a fan of learning your instrument with discipline and then 'forgetting' what you know...everything you have done before on it informs what you play whether you want it to or not (i.e. Coltrane's 'free' stuff still sounds very thoughtful and intentional to me). Also, if musicians who have spent time learning their instrument simply have better control over their tone and know how to get a good sound(s) out of it, and therefore will be more pleasant to listen to no matter what they're playing (and how noisy it is).

yes, i think practitioners of this relatively recent trend (art-rock from the premise of existing rationales for some free jazz and 20th century classical practises, or from the premise of 'new' or 'experimental') have to know the 'how' and 'why' of music to be able to aim properly, so they are able to play their instruments maybe oddly, maybe semi-accidentally, but still deliberately -- to arrive at the aims of the musical/noise undertaking by rules or guidelines for the manipulation of sound -- i think it has to sound more intelligible than 'found accidental sound', yeah imho

this stuff has been argued extensively elsewhere -- to really enjoy these musics i think the listener has to be able to ignore the rhetoric whilst actually processing the music -- the music has to stand up for itself as sound, however free-ish or random sounding -- right down to delivering on the title conferred on the music -- from this, i say "free noise" is an easy umbrella term consistent with there being no existing language with which to properly criticise this stuff, ie however you might think the music developing in this way is often in its infancy, the terms of discussion for it are a long way from consensus

I dunno, but his music is great. Wish I could find those Finnadar LPs...

PS. Vinyl sucks.

Anyway, I had never heard a jazz record like this before. I'm also reminded of very early Weather Report, kind of a spacey, tricky pop at heart here. I don't think it's on CD, I found it on slsk.

http://www.hundredyearsgallery.com/cram-festival/

this looks ok..

is there a more regularly used improv/free thread? anyway, have really been getting into this album - trim — dominic lash/rachel mission/steve noble/phil durrant.

i’m not a knowledgeable free jazz person *at all* but there’s an almost archaic lyricism here in the improv boundary zones, with a version of space age synths and information distortion. it keeps insistently reminding me, in ways i can’t articulate, of hank jones’ lazy afternoon. this seems absurd on its face but i’m going to go along with it.

good new label too.

just post in in the rolling jazz thread imo

Or in whiney's thread rolling frankly annoying quirked up random ass sounds glooped onto a DAW 2023

^ i have no idea what that thread is and refuse to post in it

your loss