Taking Sides: Fiction v. Non-Fiction

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Ess Kay, I hardly ever read poetry now, and it seems to me that it deserves its own category. When I read non-fiction for pleasure, it's for the pleasure of learning things, not generally for the pleasure of the (I'm trying not to say it) text.

Martin, I was an English major (so I'm thinking primarily of English professors). I don't mean to be as argumentative as I'm sounding, if that makes any sense. Or if I am turning this into an argument, it's not one I actually take very seriously.

Rockist Scientist, Monday, 17 February 2003 23:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

The phrase "other SO" piqued my interest.

IPOW is quite open about it! She's got her live-in and her non-live-in.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 00:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

"pleasure of learning things" => Borges! & lots of other authors! (possibly Calvino/Eco/etc - hysterical realism to thread perhaps!)

Ess Kay (esskay), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 00:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yes you can learn things all sorts of places, but I mean learning about specific things I happen to be interested in, or finding potential answers to questions that I'm concerned with. (And I have read Borges, but that was mentioned on the thread I started about my fiction loving some time SO.)

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 18 February 2003 00:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

Do you prefer docos too RS?

gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 03:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

I hardly ever go to the movies, gaz. No, I don't necessarily prefer documentaries. My taste in movies tends to lean toward foreign/art house films, with some exceptions.

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 18 February 2003 12:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

How about fiction based on a true story? Worst of both worlds, mostly.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 13:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

no way, Martin! Hilary Mantel's book about the French revolution is completely brilliant (according to my fiction reading friends). I also got great enjoyment from Amin Maalouf's "The ROCK of Tanios", which is set among real events in 19th century Lebanon.

I'm on a fiction buzz at the moment, having just finished and greatly enjoyed Margaret Attwood's "The Handmaid's Tale".

DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 13:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dramatised versions of real events = oft dud.
Fiction that takes place in the backdrop of real events = oft good.

But I'm a fiction man through and through. As evidenced by my lying streak.

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 13:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

Martin: MASON AND DIXON!

RickyT (RickyT), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 13:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

you mean Gravity's Rainbow wasn't based on a true story? (or 346,042 true stories?)

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 15:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think M&D is only rather loosely based on truth, which is fine by me. I confess that my distaste for 'based on a true story' is more to do with films than books.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 18:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

I have to back up DV here and say that Hilary Mantel's French Revolutionary novel (A Place Of Greater Safety) is a v good book. However - as someone who only had a vague idea of what went on in the French Revolution - I found I enjoyed reading it more after I'd also read some non-fiction books about the same period.

caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 21:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

I couldn't be less interested in reading non-fiction. (Actually, I don't even care about most fiction unless it's science fiction, fantasy or horror.)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 22:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

Is ILE non-fiction (with a bit of sci-fi, fantasy & horror thrown in?)

gaz (gaz), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 22:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

I started reading Mrs. Dalloway, since my SO is reading it, and since I've had some modest inerest in reading Woolf. So far I am bored. I don't care about these people at all, and Woolf is spending too much time demonstrating that people are a bit foolish.

I can't do it. I will have to take a closer look at any book she suggests, before I plunge into it. I have too many things I really would like to be reading.

A Music Consumer, Monday, 3 March 2003 03:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

three months pass...
I think it may be significant that, according to all the library literature I've seen (and I haven't seriously researched it), boys tend to prefer non-fiction over fiction. There is some discussion of the possibility that boys are not being adequately served by their school libraries (in backward places where tax-and-spend liberal types make it possible for school libraries to still exist), because the collection is slanted toward non-fiction. I was glancing at some sort of ALA publication which discussed this, but even it then went on wringing its hands over the fact that boys were missing out by not reading linear narrative type things. Is it really so important? What about non-fiction narrative? Duh, I don't think its existence was even mentioned in this book I was looking at.

Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 21 June 2003 17:24 (twenty years ago) link

Just recently my girlfriend and I were discussing the fact that she really doesn't like nonfiction (I was trying to get her to read something) and I really almost don't see the point in reading fiction. It seems like a waste of time.

It's a rare piece of fiction that has me interested enough to read. Off the top of my head, the only fictional books that I enjoyed enough to remember are "Catcher In The Rye", a few by Philip K. Dick and William Gibson, the Illuminatus! trilogy, Ham on Rye, Fear And Loathing... uh.... Nothing else is springing to mind except "The Fuckup", which I read basically for the title and cover design (but I did enjoy the book, too).

scaredy cat, Saturday, 21 June 2003 17:37 (twenty years ago) link

four months pass...
hello

jamie carr, Thursday, 23 October 2003 17:35 (twenty years ago) link

hello.

What about non-fiction narrative? Duh, I don't think its existence was even mentioned in this book I was looking at.

good point. what is fab about a non-fiction book like CV Wedgewood's "The King's Peace" is the way it cracks along with the pace of a novel ONLY IT'S ALL TRUE.

DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 23 October 2003 21:51 (twenty years ago) link

Yes, that's a good trick if you can do it - Capote's In Cold Blood and Wambaugh's The Onion Field strike me as the best examples I've read.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 24 October 2003 10:55 (twenty years ago) link

two months pass...
This past week, I was in the popular library (sub-department of the library where I work) browsing the new non-fiction books. I overheard a woman say to her boyfriend or husband (presumably): "I am looking at these for you, since I know you don't read real books." It was very hard for me not to jump in and start an argument. Maybe I misunderstood her, but it seemed that by real books she meant novels.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 24 December 2003 18:42 (twenty years ago) link

one year passes...
Revive.

RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 23:37 (nineteen years ago) link

I hate them both. Oh wait.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 23:37 (nineteen years ago) link

but only math-nerdz like non-fiction, right?

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 23:51 (nineteen years ago) link

IT'S NOT TRUE.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 23:53 (nineteen years ago) link

it is true.

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 23:55 (nineteen years ago) link

*weeps tears of bitter acknowledgement* Actually in elementary and middle school math was my thing but I burned out by tenth grade. Calculus did me in.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 23:56 (nineteen years ago) link

"reading makes me fall asleep" -- a girl i know.

ned total OTM for me w/r/t mathz.

Richard K (Richard K), Thursday, 24 March 2005 00:03 (nineteen years ago) link

i don't think i EVER passed a math class in high school. i spent a lot of time in summer school. which is one reason why i hate math and only read fiction (but no pynchon or david foster wallace, the non-fiction fan's fiction exceptions. and no nabokov! no games inside of riddles inside of anagrams inside of puzzle boxes!).

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 24 March 2005 00:17 (nineteen years ago) link

but no pynchon or david foster wallace, the non-fiction fan's fiction exceptions
ha!

Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 24 March 2005 00:25 (nineteen years ago) link

and Eco!

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 24 March 2005 00:29 (nineteen years ago) link

What the hell is with this theory that those who read non-fiction like math? I debunk that conception...my strong point was Social Studies.

What we want? Sex with T.V. stars! What you want? Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Thursday, 24 March 2005 02:01 (nineteen years ago) link

someone made that theory up on another thread. i thought i'd keep it going in true internet fashion.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 24 March 2005 02:41 (nineteen years ago) link

I've almost completely given up on fiction these days! but on the other hand, my fav. fiction authors were always the "non-fictionists'" exceptions.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 24 March 2005 02:42 (nineteen years ago) link

also i have no fucking idea what i was trying to say upthread!

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 24 March 2005 02:43 (nineteen years ago) link

you had probably read too much vollmann that day. or an epic play-by- play account of the fischer/spassky match. whatever you math guys read to unwind.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 24 March 2005 02:51 (nineteen years ago) link

Sterling, you sounded very sure of yourself. I always wondered what you meant, but was a little afraid to ask for fear of feeling inadequate if the explanation would assume a knowledge of European philosophy from Hegel on.

Maybe you were just high?

RS £aRue (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 24 March 2005 02:52 (nineteen years ago) link

sterling, you should read The Neighbors Are Scaring My Wolf by Jack Douglas. Then move on to Shut Up And Eat Your Snowshoes by Jack Douglas. Then read some Peter De Vries. You will love De Vries! Then maybe a little S.J. Perelman to cleanse your palate. Then read Edward Dahlberg's two autobiographical books because no one else will and i have nobody to talk to about them. okay?

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 24 March 2005 02:57 (nineteen years ago) link

You've been reading Dahlberg? What's the once with Flesh in the title? Before I Was (Made) Flesh?

Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 24 March 2005 03:05 (nineteen years ago) link

I love Shut Up And Eat Your Snowshoes. I read it first when I was, like, about 10, and the opening paragraph (involving, who is it, Racquel Welsh's nipples and the trauma they feel when separated by a push-up bra, something like that) was so far over my head that I knew I was in for a good ride. And I read it again a few years ago and was surprised that it still held up as a funny and sweet book.

Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 24 March 2005 03:19 (nineteen years ago) link

five years pass...

My girlfriend tends to prefer nonfiction. Lately she's been enjoying Jonathan Franzen's Freedom but also says she can't wait to get back to "learning something."

It seems like a lot of people who dislike fiction think it's a waste of time to read about a made-up world. But to me this suggests a weirdly puritanical attitude that reading should always be educational. Aren't the inherent pleasures of fiction -- a well-drawn character, an expertly constructed narrative, a beautifully crafted sentence -- sufficiently enriching? Or does the preferrer of nonfiction not even recognize them as pleasures?

I'll admit, though, that in some ways I identify with the PoNF. For one, I like my novels to have a bit of social realism or cultural commentary in them. And in addition to the pleasures outlined above, part of why I do read fiction -- which is almost always of the "literary" bent -- is to become conversant with certain cultural works. Which is probably more foolishly dutiful, in a sense, than reading merely to learn stuff about the world.

Zsa Zsa Gay Bar (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 December 2010 15:47 (thirteen years ago) link


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