No Karen Dalton thread?

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haw, the cover's pretty hardcore
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61rSp43QBIL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

tylerw, Saturday, 21 January 2012 03:08 (twelve years ago) link

Yeah, great cover indeed.

"Back to the garden" done Dalton-style.

Frozen_Warnings, Saturday, 21 January 2012 03:27 (twelve years ago) link

I really enjoyed that Cotton Eyed Joe release. It sounded a whole lot better than I expected it to. I'll probably end up getting 1966 too.

Frozen_Warnings, Saturday, 21 January 2012 03:29 (twelve years ago) link

one month passes...

so good, btw.

Mordy, Monday, 27 February 2012 22:47 (twelve years ago) link

she's kinda the stealth most influential female singer ever even if lots of ppl don't even know they are influenced by her

the wild eyed boy from soundcloud (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 27 February 2012 22:50 (twelve years ago) link

heh, yeah agreed

Chris S, Monday, 27 February 2012 22:56 (twelve years ago) link

is it terribly superficial of me to say that i love how understated and lo-fi the recording is?

Mordy, Monday, 27 February 2012 22:59 (twelve years ago) link

nah, it suits her -- sounds like it could've been plucked off of a 1930s 78.

tylerw, Monday, 27 February 2012 23:01 (twelve years ago) link

or a lomax tape

Mordy, Monday, 27 February 2012 23:03 (twelve years ago) link

just listened to 1966 on spotify, totally great, I agree. Maybe the best of these archival things, which is surprising. You'd think they'd be scraping the bottom of the barrel at this point.

tylerw, Monday, 27 February 2012 23:42 (twelve years ago) link

it does kinda seem at this point like every year has one of these reissues - carol kleyn notably last year but I bet if I went thru my music I could locate like one a year going back a decade

Mordy, Monday, 27 February 2012 23:45 (twelve years ago) link

Don't know if any of you have seen this article. I've been listening to "Cotton Eyed Joe" again and Googling around for info on the 1966 release.

Get past the first few paragraphs and there is some interesting biographical information in this. Worth reading:

Financial Times, January 27, 2012
Play, lady, play

By Richard Clayton
Karen Dalton was Bob Dylan’s favourite singer and a folk-scene legend but died virtually unknown

If you like Bob Dylan a lot, you ought to love Karen Dalton a little. A legend of the 1960s Greenwich Village folk scene, the singer is lionised by other performers and a tragic heroine for her fans. Today, nearly 20 years after her death, more of Dalton’s music is available than ever, and the people who knew her best have started to talk.

Tales about Dalton are as tall as she was. She had an aura that turned men’s heads and an attitude to spur girl-crushes in women who paint her as a “pagan mother goddess rooted in this planet”, as one purple liner-note has it. The stories mention her Native American blood, her hard drugs and her suspicion of recording studios, that she kidnapped her own child and died of Aids at 55 in 1993, a derelict on the streets of New York. The truth is more nuanced, but no less involving, than the fiction

Only two Dalton albums were released while she was alive. Her first LP did sneak out again in 1997, but it was the publication of Dylan’s 2004 memoir, Chronicles, that sparked her revival. He wrote that Dalton was his favourite singer in that Greenwich Village scene: “[She] had a voice like Billie Holiday’s and played the guitar like Jimmy Reed and went all the way with it.” The going all the way is crucial. From the off, Dalton had an unforgettable blues voice, with a cracked, mournful, horn-like quality, weary beyond its years. What she wasn’t was a songwriter. Singer-songwriters were soon all the rage.

In 2006 Dalton’s low-key debut, It’s So Hard to Tell Who’s Going to Love You the Best (1969), and its more extensively produced successor, In My Own Time (1971), were both – in record-industry parlance – “lavishly reissued”. Glowing reviews followed. The Dalton trail, cold for so long, was giving off heat.

1966 is the third and latest collection of previously unreleased – indeed, previously unknown – reel-to-reel recordings to have emerged since. The others are Cotton Eyed Joe (2007), a 1962 live set of 21 tracks, and Green Rocky Road (2008), nine home recordings from 1963. Each sounds thrillingly raw, low-fi and antique, but 1966 is the pick. As her then husband – duettist and guitar player Richard Tucker – observes, Dalton is “relaxed and in her element”. The location is an old gold-rush cabin in the hills near Boulder, Colorado; their retreat from beatnik living “back east”. Dalton plays banjo and sings the folk standards that were the core of her repertoire along with songs by their Greenwich Village peers Fred Neil and Tim Hardin. Hers must be the first cover of Hardin’s “Reason to Believe” (a song later popularised by Rod Stewart) because Hardin’s own debut album wasn’t even pressed at that point.

On the phone from the Pacific north-west, Tucker, now 71, still seems slightly in awe: “I was totally amazed by her right away. I remember carrying her guitar for her down the street. I was like a groupie ... The first place I saw her perform was a tiny spot on Bleecker Street called the Flamenco Café ... Peter Tork [the future Monkee] was washing dishes.”

For five years Dalton and Tucker would go back and forth between New York and Colorado, where the Attic folk club in Boulder became a pit-stop for musicians travelling coast-to-coast. Dalton was a draw for the likes of Hardin, Ramblin’ Jack Elliott and a pre-Byrds David Crosby. She played few formal gigs. “We did do a really good concert at the university in Indiana,” says Tucker. “Somewhere in the world is a tape.” Recording together was almost unheard of, not something that occurred to young folkies existing day-to-day.

Theirs was a “very tumultuous relationship”, Tucker recalls. “Karen was strong-willed but she wasn’t self-confident. There was a fragility there.” They split up soon after the 1966 session was captured by their friend Carl Baron. “I remember having an argument in the middle of Denver and me getting out of the car and walking away and never seeing her again,” Tucker says.

Dalton’s daughter, Abralyn Baird, now 55, was born when Dalton was 17; her elder brother, Johnny Lee Murray, when Dalton was 15. Two fathers, two divorces. “My mom was kinda headstrong. She wanted to get on with stuff,” says Baird. “In most states then you could get permission to marry before you were 16; it wasn’t a total scandal or anything.”

By her own admission, Baird has the same “deep, hoarse” speaking voice as her mother. Asked to name the most erroneous of the Dalton myths, she answers disarmingly: “The Cherokee princess one makes us all laugh.” Her mother’s parents, John and Evelyn Cariker, came from “mostly Irish” stock, she says. One grandmother was distantly related to Will Rogers, the Cherokee cowboy-actor, but the link was “pretty dilute”. A nice story then? “Isn’t it though?” Baird replies.

Dalton’s Oklahoma background was a badge of authenticity in Greenwich Village. Tucker remembers her family as “classic Okies”, rural flotsam of the Depression, and her father as “incredibly alcoholic”.

Baird bristles: “Her dad was a respected welder; her mother was a nurse. Not terribly Grapes of Wrath.”

So what of Abralyn’s kidnapping? “Yeah, she took off with me. But, remember, she was a 19-year-old girl.” Having already lost custody of her son, Dalton reconciled with Baird’s father, a literature professor, who had been granted custody of their daughter – then fled with her to New York. “They had the same temperament, my mom and dad,” says Baird. “They were very forthright, quick to anger. Very stubborn.”

Little is known publicly about Dalton after the early 1970s other than that she was living in New York. Drink and drugs surely tightened their grip but friends such as the folk guitarist Peter Walker have rebutted suggestions she died homeless and destitute. Baird maintains her mother had throat cancer and was in a hospice near Woodstock at the end. As for Aids, Baird says: “Well, she could have had that too, but it was never said to me specifically that she did.”

Dalton’s career stalled through corporate indifference and her own intransigence. “She wasn’t seen as very commercial,” Tucker explains. “The people in charge [of record labels] didn’t get it.” Baird believes it wasn’t so much that her mother didn’t want to record albums as that she resented the loss of control the process implied.

And as Harvey Brooks, the producer of Dalton’s one fully realised studio outing, In My Own Time, told me in 2006: “She didn’t like pressure. She was a very intimate performer – we didn’t have the word ‘stress’ then.”

Dalton is increasingly recognised, however, as an astonishing vocal interpreter. “She was taking something else and making it her own,” says Baird. Dalton’s technique owes more to jazz than folk. According to Brooks, “She crosses the bars… She’ll bend a note and you don’t know if she’s gonna make it or not, but she does.”

If Dalton has a signature song it’s the ballad “Katie Cruel”, which opens: “When I first came to town they called me the roving jewel, now they’ve changed their tune, call me Katie Cruel.” You don’t need to spend ages wondering why it appealed to her. “Oh, because it sounds like she’s talking about herself,” Tucker says. “Or more like an image of herself.”

Dalton’s original Capitol Records biography from 1969 asks rhetorically where she has been: “She’s been around,” it concludes. At last, her music is getting around, too.

Duke, Saturday, 3 March 2012 21:25 (twelve years ago) link

i need to get that 1966 thing.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Sunday, 4 March 2012 02:48 (twelve years ago) link

"Katie Cruel" is so great

"through the woods i'll go through the foggy mire / straight down the road until i come to my heart's desire"

Mordy, Tuesday, 6 March 2012 02:37 (twelve years ago) link

i have to dig out in my own time and see if it sounded as good there. i don't remember it...

Mordy, Tuesday, 6 March 2012 02:38 (twelve years ago) link

it's p all time on that rec

bear, bear, bear, Tuesday, 6 March 2012 02:49 (twelve years ago) link

anyway, this album is great. maybe my favorite thing of the year so far and i didn't even realize it was coming out

Mordy, Tuesday, 6 March 2012 02:53 (twelve years ago) link

I've wondered if Karen Dalton was the big influence on Devendra Barnhart's singing style rather than Marc Bolan as I think is often cited.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 6 March 2012 07:26 (twelve years ago) link

I think she anticipates so much of Neil Young's career, particularly on this album on "Reason to Believe" which is sooooo great.

Mordy, Thursday, 8 March 2012 16:14 (twelve years ago) link

xp Barnhart writes a long, flowery essay in the reish of in my own time where he names her as his fave singer.

tylerw, Thursday, 8 March 2012 16:22 (twelve years ago) link

She looked gorgeous.
Her voice. Ditto.

Katie Cruel.

Sorry to pick the obvious one.

I've been on a bender

Jessie Fer Ark (Mobbed Up Ping Pong Psychos), Thursday, 8 March 2012 22:23 (twelve years ago) link

was watching random episodes of What's In My Bag on the Amoeba site and was amazed by Cheech Marin's memories of being Dalton's housemate
http://www.amoeba.com/whats-in-my-bag/index.html#/search/Cheech%20Marin/page1

zappi, Thursday, 8 March 2012 22:35 (twelve years ago) link

I relistened to In My Own Time and It's So Hard today and I think 1966 might be my fave.

Mordy, Friday, 9 March 2012 01:26 (twelve years ago) link

"when i first came to town / they bought me drinks aplenty"

Mordy, Friday, 9 March 2012 02:56 (twelve years ago) link

was watching random episodes of What's In My Bag on the Amoeba site and was amazed by Cheech Marin's memories of being Dalton's housemate
http://www.amoeba.com/whats-in-my-bag/index.html#/search/Cheech%20Marin/page1

― zappi, Thursday, March 8, 2012 4:35 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wha--?

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Sunday, 11 March 2012 03:12 (twelve years ago) link

they like flowers and music and white girls named Karen too.

buzza, Sunday, 11 March 2012 03:18 (twelve years ago) link

one month passes...

every time i relisten to this i find new reasons to love it
how mournful + haunted she sounds on "reason to believe"
richard tucker duet with her on "don't make promises"
"standing on that corneeeeeeeeeer."

Mordy, Saturday, 28 April 2012 02:10 (eleven years ago) link

seven years pass...

I love this video so so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsYHN7eCCtU

Where Is The Univers (Old Lunch), Thursday, 8 August 2019 18:55 (four years ago) link

full disclosure: for some reason I never bothered to listen to her until I came across Dylan's description of her in Chronicles. Really love that first record a lot.

Οὖτις, Thursday, 8 August 2019 19:25 (four years ago) link

ten months pass...

Upcoming documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJWj8lyBJ94

clemenza, Monday, 29 June 2020 16:40 (three years ago) link

one month passes...

I just realized yesterday that the folk singer Karen Dalton who gets heaps of praise here on ilx and elsewhere is not the blues singer Kathy Dalton who made a record with Little Feat on Zappa's label. (I've never heard either.)

https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/372852743261_/Kathy-Dalton-Boogie-Bands-One-Night-Stands-Us.jpg

Orson Well Yeah (Dan Peterson), Monday, 10 August 2020 20:50 (three years ago) link

Dammit, meant to post to the 'I always get those two mixed up' thread.

Orson Well Yeah (Dan Peterson), Monday, 10 August 2020 20:52 (three years ago) link

seven months pass...

!

omg 14 minutes of live pro-shot karen dalton film from montreux, 1971. i don't think any of this is even in the new documentary. there's (almost) no live karen dalton audio anywhere, let alone video. https://t.co/WS4hzl8Kk5 via @gregdavismusic pic.twitter.com/0H7HlK71Ri

— jesse jarnow (@bourgwick) March 10, 2021

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 11 March 2021 04:25 (three years ago) link

incredible. looks like she has her eyes closed almost the entire time? she's up and off that stage before the last note is even done ringing out.

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, 11 March 2021 13:39 (three years ago) link

one year passes...

Watching the documentary now, it just went up on Criterion Channel.

Chris L, Friday, 3 June 2022 22:06 (one year ago) link

Also,whole thing is here, with extensive notes,thanks LITA!
https://karendalton.bandcamp.com/album/in-my-own-time-50th-anniversary-edition

dow, Saturday, 4 June 2022 03:26 (one year ago) link

Also

https://thevinylfactory.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/karen-dalton.jpg

Karen Dalton’s live recordings released for the first time
A new collection of American folk singer and guitarist Karen Dalton’s archival live performances — called Shuckin’ Sugar — is being released via Delmore Recording Society, this April on Record Store Day 2022.
The 12-track album features a collection of her previously unreleased live performances with her then-husband and guitarist Richard Tucker, as well as her solo compositions.

Shuckin’ Sugar was recorded between 1963 to 1964.

The album is accompanied by archival photos, newspaper clippings, artwork by Dalton, and an essay by journalist and author Kris Needs.

Shuckin’ Sugar follows the 50th anniversary reissue of her In My Own Time album, in March.

Head here for more info in advance of Shuckin’ Sugar’s 23rd April release; check out the artwork and tracklist below.

https://thevinylfactory.com/news/karen-dalton-live-recordings-vinyl-release/

https://thevinylfactory.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/dalton.jpeg

dow, Saturday, 4 June 2022 03:31 (one year ago) link

two months pass...

Thought that the documentary was very good with an honesty in its p.o.v. that I think its subject would appreciate. I know how the story ends, but midway through I was hoping that she'd still pull out of the spiral somehow.

That Amoeba episode with Cheech should have been in though!

Elvis Telecom, Friday, 5 August 2022 04:40 (one year ago) link

one year passes...

Reissue on Light In The Attic: https://lightintheattic.net/products/it-s-so-hard-to-tell-who-s-going-to-love-you-the-best

giraffe, Thursday, 25 January 2024 15:51 (two months ago) link

That's a good-faith effort, but so atypically low-key for her---possibly good bedtime listening, given the right candles and weed, but I wouldn't know----here's my blog take on her complete works so far (hope something else turns up, like more live from the Attic, or The Trio w guest Bobby D. on harp, back in the Village, or more from her band tour; see the bonus tracks about to be mentioned for some of that):

Shuckin Sugar, seamlessly selected from two January 1963 shows at Joe Loop’s Boulder place the Attic, plus a CORE benefit, was my gateway for Karen J. Dalton’s glinting vocal precision, which can take its time, an extra split second rolling and yowling all around the release of each note (like Joplin at the beginning and end of her discography, not the loud middle)(although some of Dalton’s Green Rocky Road living room tape is like mainlining Sonny [and Linda!] Sharrock’s Black Woman intensity-wise, so might as well be loud, but ain’t; Dalton seems never to have felt the musical need for that). Sometimes it’s in my system already, just pure, or distilled, which might be the better word lifestyle-wise: that thin substance some called “horn-like,” which goes with the jazzy suggestions sometimes audible in her 12-string folk-country blues: the modal connections, also the--modulation? Is she re-tuning some strings back and forth?--- the march, shuffle, pendulum going sideways in a good way, just for a little while, with voice reflecting that or vice-versa, while third husband Richard Tucker’s singing and six-string has no prob following (not here, although some of the expeditions on 1966 send for instance their former The Trio colleague Tim Hardin’s songs sideways in an alarming way, but hey those are just rehearsal tapes, nothing ventured nothing gained ).
The cadence, reinforced at times by her banjo.and always a boot beat, sounds and feels bold and careful at once: she knows “You’ve got to walk that lonesome valley all by yourself,” just like John and Jesus did, even “If you’re a viper,” and she is, babes (introduces that one by saying something to the effect that it’s a response–by other hands, a cover as always—to “a Biblical passage about a generation of vipers”). There’s always something straight-forward and affirmative, sometimes even hopeful, at least purposeful with no loss ov shadows—”In The Pines” goes right over there in the scent without the usual waltz, and “Katie Cruel” ‘s brief stark life, from pretty to shitty, has just enough room for rich whistling. On my sub-sub-audiophile over-the-ear headphones and YouTube Music, especially (though it worked as well first of all on Bandcamp), this whole set works better and better, note by note, on these ancient tapes, and is sometimes breathtaking (not a word I ever first choose to use).
Dalton’s other 2022 release, the expanded 50th Anniversary Edition of her second and last studio album, In My Own Time, was (following my Attic/living room tape experience) pretty startling at first, being served up with with a full, unmistakably early 70s rootsy-polished Woodstock band, but except for the kinda tiresome “When A Man Loves A Woman” and the kinda funny (when all the guys start singing along), ready for James Taylor “How Sweet It Is (To Be Loved By You),” all the covers seem much closer to home, speaking to her strengths, with Harvey Brooks’s production always in good faith (as was his bass playing on the refined yet less sympatico Nic Venet-produced ‘69 maiden voyage It’s So Hard To Tell Who’s Going To Love You The Best, a late-night blues groove, with promising choices of material like “Sweet Substitute, “ yet where she can sound a little too careful, especially when her guitar and banjo are mixed way down low—often effectively absent, no matter how loud I turn it up—most distressingly so on “Ribbon Bow,” yet another intriguing harmonic horizon line of Shucking Sugar).
Coming back to IMOT 50th after that snoozer, it’s even more of a grower, as I get the hang of floating momentum, as the sun changes the clouds of opener “Something On Your Mind,” by Dino Valente (AKA Chet Powers, who also wrote Youngbloods apotheosis “Get Together” before settling in as tiresome, nasal, magic microphone headvoice of Quicksilver Messenger Service, then checking out early: what the hell with guys like this?)
Richard Manuel’s “In A Station” gets maybe a bit overemphatic instrumentally, but most of these tracks build in a satisfying way, sometimes with just a few notes coming in from the margins, commenting, suggesting. Dalton, always appealing, gets overtly seductive, or at least inviting, on Tate’s “Take Me,” because sometimes you gotta spell it out, while remanng mobile enough (more flotation, in case the response isn’t satisfactory)
.Paul Butterfield’s “In My Own Dream” is as robust and slightly blurry- photorealist as dreams can be: a view from a slow merry-go-round, centered by Brooks’ oompah bass, leaning out from associations with Miles Davis’s “All Blues,” and here comes Bll Keith’s steel guitar again, defining the edge of motion, a good place to step.
The band occasionally disappears, except this “Katie Cruel” leaves off the whistling for Bobby Notkoff’s daring, never oversold fiddle (which is also on Michelle’s tripworthy 60s L.A. psych-folk-pop nocturne Saturn Rings, produced by Curt Boettcher) and the Steve Weber-arranged “Same Old Man” withstands a droning swarm of un auto-taggable triumph (perhaps Robert Fritz’s clarinet, if it’s bass and he knows Tuvan throat-singing??)
“One Night of Love” gets Brooks’ bass loping toward “Can’t Turn You Loose”(not officially covered, but close enough)
Richard Tucker’s “Are You Leaving For the Country?” is the hazy, observant closer, antipodal to “Something on Your Mind.”

Three alt-takes are all keepers “Something…” gets a more lively-from-the-start combo performance, maybe considered a little too folk-rock for hipper 1972, but certainly not for 2022; this “In My Own Dream” mainly differs in being a minute longer, which is fine by me) ditto six live ventures of Dalton and band into Bremen and a Montreux festival, with studio atmospherics intact enough and nimble: it’s a balancing act, really out there for her, far from the Attic and her Boulder living room.
If only she could have kept going a little longer, as the singer-songwriter thing found its niche on little labels, beyond trend-hungry majors, then maybe…
But her stubbornness, her wariness, her night vision too, seem to have included some fear, some blinks, some blanks: for one thing, she refused to sing her own words, though the musical settings provided by Lucinda Williams, Patty Griffin, bold Julia Holter, and a variety of other singer-composers on Remembering Mountains always sound plausibly Daltonesque, Her words were ready to go, to be perhaps matched to adapted traditional tunes, a la Dylan and others, but—maybe she just couldn’t face the tough aesthetic choices that wait for any writer, the ones that can wake somebody up at 4:00 AM or lunch: “My God why did or didn’t I do THAT?”

Here several people who knew her have their say, sometimes disagreeing: a suitable “oral history, sort of,” cogently spliced by Johnny West:
https://johnnywestmusic.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/karen-dalton-an-oral-history-sort-of/
*This follow-up adds that Dalton did write out chords for the words that Sharon Van Etten sings on Remembering Mountains:
https://johnnywestmusic.wordpress.com/2015/06/20/now-your-time-is-your-own/

dow, Thursday, 25 January 2024 20:26 (two months ago) link

"If You're A Viper" is the moonlit stoner ballad-anthem (implying rhyme with "piper," I think) from which coinage "vaper" might well have come.

dow, Thursday, 25 January 2024 20:32 (two months ago) link

“Its So Hard” is my favorite Dalton record, i love how stark it is

waste of compute (One Eye Open), Thursday, 25 January 2024 20:46 (two months ago) link


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