Lana Del Rey

what if she were on tv naked? would he be allowed to find her sexy then, it would it still be sexism.

like at least a small part of you has to know how bullshitty that sounds

it's kinda long...but fairly articulate! i mean, there was thought involved. like, lots of thought.

i'm sorry but you used a statement typically used after a girl gets raped w/r/t mordy finding someone on tv attractive

i agree with the main premise. or one of the main premises. she isn't really well-rounded enough to pull off what she's trying to pull off. and i agree with the childish aspect too. its like a kid playing dress-up. not an adult inhabiting a role. fiona apple was actually much more successful at this! for better or worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcOKUWJZyak

her saving grace is: catchy tunes and decent production in the studio. or suitably atmospheric production anyway. she reminds me of every triphopper that wasn't portishead or massive attack. they've got the spirit, but lose the feeling. inmyveryhumbleopinion.

like at least a small part of you has to know how bullshitty that sounds

tbf, equating "i found her sexy because she was dressed sexy" with "she deserved to be raped because she was dressed sexy" also sounds a little bullshitty

the objectionable part of the latter statement isn't the suggestion that certain modes of dress are sexy.

the argument is pretty much that her failing to deliver on her "sexy image" justifies for the harsh backlash. a backlash that has a particular character to it, not one that you ever really see guys getting subjected to, not that there are no examples of guys being slammed, but i think pay attn to the characterisation of that response, which has been done already by that village voice (?) post and get bent and doesn't really need to be repeated, and really, in the end, theres this way in which it rests on a kind of entitlement to an image, or a curtain being pulled back. there's this reveal and subsequent humiliation. like this is the narrative, its sortof beyond creepy and the circularity of it is only underlined when people say "well she acted like she was gonna be really sexy so i mean"

http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/9/8/2/8/michael-jackson-eating-popcorn.gif

cant the argument just be that she is terrible?

p much reads like "what did you expect dressing like that?"

honestly i don't even know how to respond to this. i'm not using the way she dresses, acts or sings to justify any kind of sexual violence against her and the suggestion that i am is... like unless you believe that any discussion of someone's sexuality is itself a form of sexual violence?

fiona could teach lana a thing or two about owning a stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5LhxqbmsZ4&feature=related

fwiw, judith, and i wrote this above, i think that yes, some ppl on the internet (HRO seems to be the biggest offender, tho i haven't read his piece) are clearly criticizing her in language that scans as explicitly sexist. those ppl suck. at the same time, those ppl aren't (afaict) posting here on ilx so using them as a cudgel to beat back ppl criticizing her here is strawman-esque?

i mean, fiona had a pretty limited palette too. and she also had catchy songs, hearbreakm laments, psychsexual drama, and decent production. AND she could stalk a stage and captivate. and pout. she was good at it! probably younger then lana when she had her heyday too. don't know how old people are anymore.

"psychosexual"

actually i'm guessing about the psychosexual element, cuz i don't remember her lyrics too well, but the big one had the boyfriend with the deviant lifestyle and all that. whatever that meant. and the seedy calvin klein video kinda went in that direction.

sorry, i'm kinda derailing this other, uh, thing with fiona talk. carry on.

i haven't read anything on hro about this, though a language that is explicitly sexist would be preferable to an endless displacement, where certain tropes are allowed to enter in that normally have no place but refuse to rise to the surface. i mean florence or feist or robyn or p much any harvest of "quirky chicks" buzz cycles where their authenticity is so easily toppled. its a pretty similar narrative that gets repeated, it has to do with unmasking in some sense. it has its own identifiable features and it does illustrate a gender dynamic, a way in which women artists can only be framed one way regardless so that their adoption of a certain image is also this thing that makes them easy to dismiss. and yeah this does all have a lot to do with rape discourses, which tend to feature heavily this need to blame women for their ways of self-presenting. it has implications that it doesn't for men. there are roads that go places. to point that out is not to call everybody a rapist but like seriously this thread reads super badly. i probably shouldn't have singled out one post by one poster. for that i'm sorry.

As far as I can tell, LDR has no interest in owning a stage. She's aiming at a Dorothy Vallens vibe and doesn't have the life damage/acting chops to pull off that kind of mystique.

there are roads that go places?

i'm not blaming ldr for how she's presenting herself. my post that you quoted above was showing the mismatch between how she presented herself on her recorded single and how she seemed to be trying and failing to present herself that way on SNL.

also, for the record, i don't believe ldr should expect criticism + condemnation bc she dresses provocatively. i do think she should expect criticism bc she's a public figure and much like politicians, actors, and other people who have chosen to be in the spotlight, musicians (both male + female) can expect harsh things to be written about them. sometimes by ppl on ilx. i don't know if it's a good thing. it's probably a deeply embedded human thing.

short of performing behind gauze in front of a million candles while standing on a wind machine, surrounded by brass buttons held at precise, oscillating angles aloft by a trained chorus of vassals, i'm not sure she could have synced the presentation of herself in the video with that of an uncontrolled performance on SNL

musicians (both male + female) can expect harsh things to be written about them

but the nature of those things are often different for female musicians!

oh wait, you are the guy that was oblivious to the egregious gender stereotyping in Almost Famous. Why am I bothering?

t/s potential gender insensitivity vs calling people rapey

i called what he said rapey

well now how could that possibly come off wrong

i think it came off about right

"i'm not saying you are an actual rapist, i am just saying that you say things the way a rapist would say them. no offense intended."

her failing to deliver on her "sexy image" justifies for the harsh backlash.

― judith, Wednesday, January 18, 2012 4:55 PM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

okay, but i didn't see anyone saying anything remotely like that ITT. you say that this thread reads badly, but if there's something concrete you object to, it'd help if you'd point it out. i agree, by the way, that there's a narrative of exposure and humiliation that we often attempt to enact with pop stars, especially female pop stars.

^agreed. and it's despicable, in or out of ILX. but i don't think pointing the finger at mordy and calling his posts rapey is at all helpful.

oh wait, you are the guy that was oblivious to the egregious gender stereotyping in Almost Famous. Why am I bothering?

i wasn't going to say anything but seriously? i disagreed w/ your reading of almost famous so it's not worth even having a conversation with me?

*agreeing with contenderizer's last poing about ritual humiliation

*point

poing!

haha

xxp - whoa, i was pretty aggro an hour ago. basically, non-judgmentally, what seems obvious to me, doesn't seem obvious to you.

mellow has 2 l's too

Delusional? Haha Who are you? Listen to yourself. She ain't ready to **** with the big dogs? LMFAO man who are you? Do you not understand how irrelevant your opinion even is? Can you hit a note in front of a hooters crowd let alone live on SNL yourself? This is what the **** I'm talking about man LMFAO. I'm sick of these mother****ers. I'm sick of these snobbish indie ****s and their Vampire Weeknd graphic tees and Coachella 3 day passes, I'm sick of these hipsters in their straw fedora hats and Clark's showing us their ankles walking down the street thinking they know everything about music and the industry just because they own pet sounds on vinyl, I'm sick of these bloggers, I'm sick of these faceless ****s on the Internet who think their opinion is the end all be all and have this fantasy in their head that what they say on their personal blogspot named after their favorite Michael Cera quote or their stupid ****ing tumblr with their pictures of Bon Iver and personal reviews of old Hitch**** and Kubrick films actually ****ing matter. That their meaningless, uninformed, irrelevant opinions actually reach the masses and some random person in Hong Kong or LA or ****ing Kansas actually gives a **** about SNL, or The " Big dogs" or even Lana her ****ing self. That the real world actually gives a **** because if they did, why the **** would her EP be selling? **** this ****. I'm not defending this performance. I'm just now getting up on all the information about this album but this **** has to stop. At some point these people are going to have to turn off their computers. Walk outside and realize that what they say and what they think really doesn't ****ing matter.

i am v much in favour of m@tt's fiona talk (and it strikes me as pretty relevant), and when the tennis is over i might continue it

fiona is technically very talented which makes her involvement in this discussion unnecessary I think. She walked out on stage at a show I was at a couple months ago and was p incredible, she looked like she weighed ten pounds though

xp That is a fine rant. Assumed it was from somewhere else but found nothing when I googled it.

Did you try googling "their personal blogspot named after their favorite Michael Cera quote"?

funnily enough, I did. Apparently, it's "You would like be the meanest wife ever."

this morning i saw a news segment on Fuse about Lana Del Rey and her talking about how she doesn't like live TV, and then i changed the channel and MTV Hits had a news segment about Lana Del Rey responding to her 'haters,' it's kind of surreal that they're basically beaming this stuff out to a viewing audience that for the most part probably hasn't heard her music at all yet if they didn't see the SNL performances.

i can't say for sure, but I wouldn't be shocked if more people watch SNL than Fuse or MTV Hits

well sure, duh. i just mean that they're doing this blanket media push on all these different outlets, and it's less "here's a new artist to be excited about" and more "here's someone you might've just heard of for the first time a week ago responding to their first big career controversy." it's weird.

i'm a sucker for her betty-boop squeals in "off to the races"

― ⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, January 10, 2012 2:48 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

so otm

also the 'light of my life/fire of my loins' reminds me of most fav thread titles

Ebay, Light Of My Life, Fire Of My Loins, My Sin, My Soul

xp Thanks - couldn't find it earlier for some reason