haha what an unbelievably terrible ballot
― HOOS steen is it anyway? (Lamp), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:00 (twelve years ago) link
the smile sessions are a bit tricky though, because it's not really a reissue, the stuff was never officially released or leaked in that form before.
i mean, if a band's album sits in limbo for 3 years then comes out, it's kinda the same thing imo
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:01 (twelve years ago) link
haha i found that when i was looking to see if anyone voted for that great Craig Wedren record and was v disappointed when i saw the rest of the ballot
― lana shel game (some dude), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:01 (twelve years ago) link
Ned (and everyone else), please vote in the ILM 2011 poll! It's clearly a more worthy enterprise. If you're already maxed out on list-making for the year you can just resubmit your P+J ballot.
― rhetorical questino (seandalai), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:02 (twelve years ago) link
yeah Smile is a unique case, although something like that that's such a big deal and in some ways still a 'new' product i feel like it's fair game for the main poll, like Bruce's The Promise the year before.
― lana shel game (some dude), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:02 (twelve years ago) link
wtf are you listening ro when hella dated Smashing Pumpkins records sound better than anything else in 2011
Drake and Rick Ross, probably
― Bam! Orgasm explosion in your facehole. (DJP), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:03 (twelve years ago) link
that dudes ballot is like inverse case of those ppl whose ballots i checked cuz the voted for like a rad spectrum spools lp and find at least one terrible james blake record or s.thing in the rest of their top ten
― HOOS steen is it anyway? (Lamp), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:06 (twelve years ago) link
are you voting for the ALBUM itself primarily or how much value is added by the remastering or bonus material or liner notes?
Most of the reissues that used to score in the results, when it was its own category, weren't really this kind, though -- They tended more often to be career retrospectives, or box sets, or unearthings of previously obscure stuff by cult acts like Os Mutantes or Shuggie Otis or Esquivel or whoever. (Not saying the category was great -- in fact, mediocre cult acts who got hip cred for a year and bloated boxes by Hall Of Famers were part of what dragged it down. Which is part of why the category wound up seeming like a waste of time to tabulate. Just saying it wasn't dominated by pre-existing old albums with outtakes tacked on.)
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:11 (twelve years ago) link
Agreed that "Smile" is a special case when it comes to reissues. Similarly, "The Basement Tapes" (1975) and "VU" (1985) were also "new" music.
― Jazzbo, Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:49 (twelve years ago) link
cover feature on the artist with the #190 albumhttp://thewire.co.uk/images/artists/lil_b/cover336.jpg
― Jimmy Riddle Orchestra (Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:51 (twelve years ago) link
gtfo
― 誤 means 訳. 訳 means 侮辱. (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:52 (twelve years ago) link
shut it all the fuck down
― 誤 means 訳. 訳 means 侮辱. (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:53 (twelve years ago) link
photo is all "thank you based godzilla"
― 誤 means 訳. 訳 means 侮辱. (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:55 (twelve years ago) link
i knew you would be pleased
― Jimmy Riddle Orchestra (Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:55 (twelve years ago) link
wanna read that KFW article tbh
― 誤 means 訳. 訳 means 侮辱. (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 18:58 (twelve years ago) link
haha i was thinking the same thing. p excited for the record he has coming out on editions mego. (i was also happy to see ital on the cover but i doubt youd share that enthusiasm)
― HOOS steen is it anyway? (Lamp), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 19:00 (twelve years ago) link
I sent them over 5,000 words, and only one line was bitchy. Of course that's what the rat bastards print. "Apparently it's now cool to like fucking Bon Iver but not TV on the Radio." I'm only one of two people who voted for Graveyard and Elder, and one of three for Uncle Acid & the Deadbeats :(
My ballot and positions in the poll:
1 TVOTR, 432 Graveyard, 2843 White Denim, 814 Elder, 2955 Been Obscene, 8826 At Devil Dirt, 15837 Uncle Acid & the Deadbeats, 4088 The Vaccines, 1149 Mastodon, 4710 Tom Waits, 5
― Fastnbulbous, Wednesday, 18 January 2012 19:11 (twelve years ago) link
were all 3 ilxors?
― Jimmy Riddle Orchestra (Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 19:12 (twelve years ago) link
Beats me, I don't know everyone's names.
Jonathan LundeenPatrick McNally
― Fastnbulbous, Wednesday, 18 January 2012 19:23 (twelve years ago) link
Well uh I was one of the Uncle Acid voters so I'm guessing its pretty easy to figure it out from there.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, 18 January 2012 19:27 (twelve years ago) link
yeah dude your ballot ruled
― pass the hatchet i think i'm gordon (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 19:29 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i think other dude might be an ilxor if its who im thinking of
― Jimmy Riddle Orchestra (Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 19:30 (twelve years ago) link
Anyway, one reason a reissues poll would theoretically make sense is for albums like Matos's #3 this year, which doesn't really make sense to rank up against current music, but which -- if it's as great as he says -- also doesn't make sense to ignore entirely:
http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/critics/2011/685276/
Only problem is, when there's a reissue poll, albums like that aren't necessarily what most people vote for -- and it might be even worse now, when lots of critics seem to think "reissues" only mean boring expanded remasters of classic albums.
― xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2012 19:33 (twelve years ago) link
wow, the rapture had an album out this year! who knew?
― scott seward, Wednesday, 18 January 2012 19:37 (twelve years ago) link
Not sure if that was for me or FastnBulbous, but, uh, thanks.
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, 18 January 2012 19:38 (twelve years ago) link
had no idea they were even still a group. i liked that one song that everyone liked. years ago. next thing you'll be telling me the strokes and interpol are still going!
― scott seward, Wednesday, 18 January 2012 19:39 (twelve years ago) link
The Strokes in at #164 on P&J was pretty rough even by extremely low standards
― some dude, Wednesday, 18 January 2012 19:41 (twelve years ago) link
― 誤 means 訳. 訳 means 侮辱. (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, January 18, 2012 1:52 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― 誤 means 訳. 訳 means 侮辱. (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, January 18, 2012 1:53 PM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
*works for magazine that put das racist and odd future wolfgang on consecutive covers*
― tyga mother (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 18 January 2012 19:43 (twelve years ago) link
nah that album blew dick xp
― 誤 means 訳. 訳 means 侮辱. (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, January 18, 2012 1:55 PM (44 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
this is otm th
of course it blew dick, not what i was saying
― some dude, Wednesday, 18 January 2012 19:45 (twelve years ago) link
had no idea they were even still a group. i liked that one song that everyone liked. years ago.
the first single from that Rapture record is pretty great imo. How Deep is Your Love. indie-dance piano-house track. didn't really like the rest of it
The Men "Leave Home" is cool too. noisy art-punk
― dmr, Wednesday, 18 January 2012 20:10 (twelve years ago) link
dmr otm on both counts
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, 18 January 2012 20:12 (twelve years ago) link
are the new men as good as the old men? i like this one a lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGWdoJU3HSg
― scott seward, Wednesday, 18 January 2012 22:55 (twelve years ago) link
reading the scott pl essay and this caught my eye:
he head-spinning end result is an indie-rock world that feels like a place where fitting in is more valued than standing out. Chillwave and its electro-pop cousins—easily digestible, rooted in collective memory and experiences, lo-fi enough to mask amateurishness—were tailor-made for the job, capturing mood and vibe and, by extension, providing a ready-made soundtrack for listeners. The resulting pattern of looking over one's shoulder for approval while attempting to embrace an artist as early as possible doesn't foster a healthy creative environment but one dominated by conservative choices, where the familiar (or easily understood) trump the bold and the brave. Ruptures in expectations, risks, and singular artists who defy categorization are suppressed if the overarching motivation of the audience is a fear of looking foolish.
as someone not very tapped into this stuff i thought it was kind of the other way around, at least on some superficial level? i feel like the indie crit/blogosphere has gotten very big into valuing the 'bold and the brave' over the 'conservative'? like most of the really hyped acts seem to have some angle of "this isn't your usual white guy/girl with a guitar, and here's why (plus they use the word 'gangsta!')". i mean i'm as much a fan of novelty in the classic sense as anyone, so i'm not trying to be snarky when i say there seems to be a premium on novelty at the moment. am i wrong?
― Planned Perrintweet (some dude), Thursday, 19 January 2012 00:37 (twelve years ago) link
just spitballing but i think you may be right about how these artists are described while scott is right about how they actually function
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 19 January 2012 00:41 (twelve years ago) link
and apparently i need to read his whole essay because i'm loving that graf
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 19 January 2012 00:42 (twelve years ago) link
i mean i'm as much a fan of novelty in the classic sense as anyone, so i'm not trying to be snarky when i say there seems to be a premium on I GOT THE SWAG AND ITS PUMPIN OUT MY OVARIES
― 誤 means 訳. 訳 means 侮辱. (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 19 January 2012 00:43 (twelve years ago) link
if he's knowingly and purposefully describing what he sees as the reality beneath the narrative he should've said so at least to be more overt about the 'emperor's new clothes' implications of it (xpost)
― Planned Perrintweet (some dude), Thursday, 19 January 2012 00:43 (twelve years ago) link
yeah makes sense.
ok i'm gonna get some wine and read the whole thing.
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 19 January 2012 00:44 (twelve years ago) link
to an extent. i posted s.thing abt scott's essay upthread during last nite's excellent 'zan wit that lean' argument but i dont think theres a specific premium on novelty nor do i think theres a refusal to embrace risk or the singular. its not that theres isnt a fair # of underground bands working a similar and similarly tiresome post-anco fugue but the underground is a very diverse very weird place atm and one in which 'approval' has increasingly less meaning
― HOOS steen is it anyway? (Lamp), Thursday, 19 January 2012 00:50 (twelve years ago) link
lol man i am shocked by the gorilla vs. bear top 30 and how little of it i know #old
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 19 January 2012 00:55 (twelve years ago) link
ha i was looking at the bottom of the list and saw "new crayons" by big zach and "king gampo" by prof w/one mention and knew it was pete
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 19 January 2012 00:55 (twelve years ago) link
as a whole scott's essay was really terrible but hard to argue against vehemently because its framed w/in the context of pazz and jop which i guess is theoretically less interested in underground music. but think its hard to argue that underground music is particularly 'conservative' this year simply because it doesnt have a breakout star and i dont know how much if any this has to do w/the quality of that music or really how much this poll and critics as a whole really 'get' avant/weirdo music. theres always been wide segments of what you could call 'indie' esp the places that border w/ various ill-represented genres like jazz/classical/experimental thats sortof nodded at vaguely by mnstrm indie critics w/o much real engagement regardless of w/e currents and evolutions these microgenres are undergoing.
― HOOS steen is it anyway? (Lamp), Thursday, 19 January 2012 00:57 (twelve years ago) link
How can you say P&J is theoretically less interested in underground music when tuneYARDS was #1 this year? It's an aggregate!
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 January 2012 00:59 (twelve years ago) link
because tuneyards isnt underground music.
― HOOS steen is it anyway? (Lamp), Thursday, 19 January 2012 01:00 (twelve years ago) link
the underground is a very diverse very weird place atm and one in which 'approval' has increasingly less meaning
as an idea this sounds awesome, but i wonder if it is in practice and/or if it's true. one of my pet theories is as sales not only matter less but don't exist for a lot of free mixtape!/band camp sects of indie, it seems like actual number of fans or even how fanatical that fanbase is matters less than having the right kind of exposure on the right kind of sites, not just for the power of the co-sign but to put you in the category you aspire to be in, subculturally, which means more and more emphasis on bullshit 'approval' from an increasingly lame array of tastemakers
― Planned Perrintweet (some dude), Thursday, 19 January 2012 01:00 (twelve years ago) link
oh Lamp
everyone's a sellout to somebody ::looks on wistfully, wipes a tear::
having read the whole thing i think there's a few ideas happening and he doesn't really tie them to his central which is about the evacuation of a broad swath of indie from the results.
basically he's looking for the new brooklyn and not finding it and my response would be don't hold your breath because logistically and economically no one wants to be in an indie band anymore.
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 19 January 2012 01:04 (twelve years ago) link