Lana Del Rey

Man, I was just about to write that this is just like Liz Phair, but was beaten to it. I'm trying to remember the horrible live performance *she* had...was it "Never Said?" I remember her being motionless and terrified...

So everyone should be relax, 'cause in a few years LDR will be coming out with amazing stuff like "Bollywood" and we'll look back on her early career missteps and laugh.

Liz Phair's super-awful SNL was post-Guyville iirc - oh no wait I'm thinking of the Tonight Show when she did one I think called "Double Dutch," that was pretty fuckin harsh

well yeah not many people in general do national TV spots before their first album is even out but i think in general there was a lot of chatter about Phair's stage fright and/or bad performances from very early on

i hadnt heard 'off to the races' til yesterday, its so good also -- i guess i dont really care if shes a trainwreck live

you guys, i just realized that ldr is totally the wife in manos: the hands of fate.

http://horrorfanzine.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/manos-the-hands-of-fate-15.jpg

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvi3w6460r1qzozj1.jpg

I remember her being motionless and terrified

I'm beginning to think, perhaps, that's part of the persona/schtick. Its been part of every public performance by LDR I've seen.

Its not gansta Sinatra, its well groomed time-warp abuse victim.

i can't deal with jaymc's deliberate obtuseness right now either. there is another part to that clause!!!! jesus christ people.

Uh, you asked what's rockist about live shows; I pointed out that live shows are, at least according to Kelefa Sanneh's landmark article (which I think most of us agree with, no?), one of the things that rockists most value. Putting live shows in opposition to music videos doesn't change that essential point, IMO; it simply delineates the sides more clearly. I dunno, I was just trying to be helpful.

i think the 'live shows are real UNLIKE MUSIC VIDEOS' really is the point of that bit, though. i don't think there's really that many people, r*ckist or otherwise, who across the board go "live performance doesn't matter, it's irrelevant, recorded music is all there is."

Maybe I misunderstood the context of Lex's question.

i think the 'live shows are real UNLIKE MUSIC VIDEOS' really is the point of that bit, though.

Yes, that's a big part, I agree. But I think there's also a lot of people who put a premium on "bands who can play their instruments" and the sacredness and raw energy of musicians and fans in a room together. And who categorically dismiss certain artists for supposedly not being able to achieve those things.

I would like to point out that I never actually said LDR was out of tune. My comments about tuning were in direct response to "it's impossible to sing in tune on the SNL stage" commentary that was at best tangentially related to the mewling harpy with the terrible voice that we saw on Saturday.

It's hard to sing with strings!

Wants to be Joanna Newsom; is barely Kimya Dawson.

But I think there's also a lot of people who put a premium on "bands who can play their instruments" and the sacredness and raw energy of musicians and fans in a room together. And who categorically dismiss certain artists for supposedly not being able to achieve those things.

i wasn't doing that. must i spell everything out? i was actually saying on twitter y'day morning that a shitty live performance doesn't = worthless artist, and i'm fine with DLR being a total studio creation who hit upon one great song. but i don't see why that means i should defend that dreadful performance! especially as the manner in which she failed was totally at odds with her on-record appeal. ie, she totally butchered everything great about her own song.

t-swift sang very well when i saw her live show, though i don't think i defended her pitchy live tv performances either.

I saw her on Jonathan Ross show.

how 'awful' was that one by comparison? (not a rhetorical Q)

i just watched this again and the beginning of video games really isn't bad at all actually! she's just completely at sea

it's like she doesn't understand her own instrument or how to use it which is a shame because when properly protooled it works it's beguiling and unique

haha god where do these accents she uses come from?? "a mill-ee-on yeaaaahhrs"

it is crazy how the anti-anti-anti-backlash backlash to the anti-backlash goes with this person, even on a personal level..... like i am watching Blue Jeans again and rooting for her all over again because honestly she is just VERY BIZARRE, in a way that she seems not really in control of, as if there are at least three or four separate homunculi inside her attempting to incant the charm that will release them (none of them, as DJP notes, particularly communicating with the others)

i think the 'live shows are real UNLIKE MUSIC VIDEOS' really is the point of that bit, though. i don't think there's really that many people, r*ckist or otherwise, who across the board go "live performance doesn't matter, it's irrelevant, recorded music is all there is."

― some dude, Monday, January 16, 2012 12:21 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

good framing there, I do think that you have to treat an artist's live performance and her studio performance as two completely separate entities, one should have no bearing on the other. but I don't think that live performances are completely irrelevant either - if they're good, it can elevate your appreciation of the artist, if they're bad, move on, you still got the studio recording honey

if you're all "I really loved 'video games' but after that SNL performance I just don't know" then smh @ u

if you're all "I really loved 'video games'" then smh @ u

I really loved 'video games'

actually itunes tells me I've only played it 4 times, ever. I don't even know why I'm in this thread. actually I do know why. I saw '200 new answers' and thought 'I really need to have an opinion on this and share it with everybody.' ; )

haha

i have a friend who is having trouble being around a large percentage of her friends at the moment because of this video games song + that twilight book

(she sees the two as being closely related and articulated why really well, but i fear if i try and explain what she said i'll get sbanned-sexist-asshole)

a live show or a recording will always have a bearing on the other things you've heard from that artist because they're coming from the same person, and it all comprises the constellation of things that swim up to the surface of your mind when you are reminded of them. i don't think people can or do compartmentalize these things! a (quasi) rockist position might be if del rey refused to do live shows on the basis that she wasn't very good at them, and said "PAH! she is thus lame". but she DID decide to do them. and you can't unsee it. at least not yet. i'm reminded of the time i went to see annie (the singer) at the tribeca grand with phil oh and some other people and what an unmasking-the-wizard kind of moment it was for us - this woman with a badass sound, schaffel beats etc turning up on the night with no stage presence whatsoever and a breathy voice you could barely hear

it's like, OK, i still like "chewing gum" but the excitement and desire and ravenous craving i feel for pop stars i've fallen for was just halted in its tracks, it was like that moment when you're on E when suddenly you realize you're not quite as high as you were the moment before

the impulse is natural, yeah, but I think it's one that can be easily unlearned. like, I still love all of taylor swift's albums even though I've seen the shitty performance youtubes and that awful music video with the fake donkey. I guess I'm good at compartmentalizing.

RIP Annie (From Norway)

Annie (from Norway) not many have heard her but those who did all voted for her in the ILM EOY Poll.

if you're all "I really loved 'video games' but after that SNL performance I just don't know" then smh @ u

is anyone saying this? who are you arguing against?

and then the Velvet underground got involved.

I do think, and some people have been making this argument itt, that live performances today are important as a primary source of revenue, so if it leaks that you got an all-around terrible show then you probably should try to make sure your studio songs are really really good (which yono dil roy has not done, it seems). not like people will buy those albums anyway! what happens when the fader blog hit adsense google stream dries up? don't quit your day job! hence my 'metasnark' upthread about her selling a lot of albums.

que?

if she dedicated the song to gwbush and spent half the performance sobbing would that affect your appreciation of the song?

what's funny is that DLR of all people could probably afford to go the "mystique" route and refuse to perform live

ln dl ry went out with george w bush?

but in all honesty? nope

what happens when the fader blog hit adsense google stream dries up?

one of the more plaintive and existential questions i've encountered lately

with a few adjustments it could make a good lyric

lana del rey to perform her hit song "fader blog hit adsense google stream" on saturday night live

I do think, and some people have been making this argument itt, that live performances today are important as a primary source of revenue, so if it leaks that you got an all-around terrible show then you probably should try to make sure your studio songs are really really good (which yono dil roy has not done, it seems). not like people will buy those albums anyway! what happens when the fader blog hit adsense google stream dries up? don't quit your day job! hence my 'metasnark' upthread about her selling a lot of albums.

― dayo, Monday, January 16, 2012 8:16 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

is there ANYONE out there who can't sell tickets because despite people liking their albums because they have a rep as a lousy live act? never heard anything about Cat Power playing to an empty room (except maybe by the end of the set).

cat power probably sells tickets /because/ she of her horrible live show rep, not in spite of it?

totally going to this cat power show tonight because she might freak out and pet a squirrel

Ditti Amy en passim, PDoherty, etc.

"Hey let's go to the show tonight, it might be crap wheeee!"

vs

"The records are dull, but they're always entertaining live"

vs

... um, forgot the point i was making.

I mean yeah if you've got a fader blog post about you and you're playing in NYC you'll probably be okay. but how many artists can turn that into a consistent revenue-stream through nationwide touring? idk, I'm not an artist and most of the acts I've gone to see live, I've done so because of their reps as being really great live.

oh yeah: Can't think of one. Unless GG Allin counts.

i wasn't doing that. must i spell everything out?

Of course you weren't. You're the last person I would expect to do that.

Listen, I wasn't even paying attention to whatever point you were making! While skimming the thread, I just happened to notice a question ("what makes live shows rockist?") and decided to respond!

I mean yeah if you've got a fader blog post about you and you're playing in NYC you'll probably be okay. but how many artists can turn that into a consistent revenue-stream through nationwide touring? idk, I'm not an artist and most of the acts I've gone to see live, I've done so because of their reps as being really great live.

― dayo, Monday, January 16, 2012 8:28 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

well yeah of course you're gonna go see people you think are good live or have heard are good live. but seriously -- a TON of popular recording acts are in some way or another objectively terrible live performers (but not in a trainwreck Cat Power type way, just lame/boring/etc.) but afaict as long as their albums are well regarded they never have to worry about selling tickets. sure, it might cost them the occasional big festival or slow down their ascent to bigger venues, but in general it seems like the "being shitty live is always bad for business" concept has its limits.

watched the snl performance last night. laughed my ass off. its very sweet that some people walked away feeling sympathetic or protective or whatever, but whoooo

whether she winds up a flash in the pan or singing the next bond theme or both, only time will tell