Lana Del Rey

could totally imagine her singing Trash by suede. plus most of dog man star.

Thought it might be the NY Dolls song.

Hmm, her voice actually sounds weaker in that vid and she still seems pretty uncomfortable; I believe that was CMJ 2008.

flopson otm, the whole "you are so YOU" thing is just tiresome at this point, every thread doesn't need to become a catalog of which posts are 'in character'

typical some dude post^

lol

this thread was good before the ship derail

1) whole rockism vs popism has been done to death since seven years ago however
2) to deny the distinction has any meaning at all or can ever be useful seems willfully ignorant especially in debate about whether whether latest pop sensation with one good song has any musical talent, ability, etc and accuse others of needing schooling in the basics doubles up on that
3) Ergo, posts very much in character

0) (why even try to post more than one line on iPhone)

how many t-swift apologists are going in on LDR about not being able to sing live? just lex?

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxljzw1kSB1rn3zv4o1_500.jpg

not gonna lie, that shirt makes me happy

Have to say, strong negative reaction striking me as a little *like punk never happened*. Agree with aerosmith that her pitch was mostly accurate and surprised by the shock over a performer with some natural, human idiosyncrasies. Part of what made it enjoyable imo.

lot of people get away with not being technically accomplished singers if they have some stage presence or charisma, including in punk

like if she had been a really confident performer who just happened to sing off key for a verse the only person being negative itt would be DJP probably

Well, as I said, I think it was technically OK. She would not have won American Idol, but that wasn't the most important thing to me when I watched it.

I think if it was Mary Margaret O'Hara or the Raincoats, something approximately like the charisma and stage presence she projected last night would have been the exact expectation.

yeah it's crazy, almost strikes me as a little *like Lana Del Ray wasn't punk*

The point is that after punk, we don't worry about those things.

i don't want to sound like a total dick, but if you think her performance was technically OK, i think maybe you're not that discriminating?

The Velvet Underground can't play their instruments.

this whole thing feels very reminiscent of the beginning of Liz Phair's career tbh

They make rude remarks about me
They wonder just how wild I would be

the fact that you can make good music without being technically accomplished does not mean that music can't suck when it's badly played/sung, and it moreover doesn't mean that technical proficiency is no longer a valid criticism after punk. the legacy of the velvets etc is that one need not let lack of technical aptitude stand between you and your vision. this legacy is decidedly not "it doesn't matter whether people can play their instruments or not"; to take that as the lesson is to miss not only some of the point, but all of it. after punk (much of which was played by outstanding musicians; if you think Glenn Matlock wasn't an excellent bassist who could've played with absolutely anyone, then you have tin ears), we say "just because something isn't played by a muso doesn't mean it can't be good." it doesn't mean we stop paying attention to whether somebody's a good musician or not, unless we are utter idiots.

unless we are utter idiots.

I don't think you can just assume that this is not true

yeah i'm fairly idiotic in the way i approach music. *shrug*

Yeah, I'm certainly NOT making the point that criticism of music's technical aspects is invalid after punk. I'm asserting that a fundamental of a post-punk world allows for tolerance of, like, the fact that she missed three notes or something in her Saturday Night Live performance.

Man, I was just about to write that this is just like Liz Phair, but was beaten to it. I'm trying to remember the horrible live performance *she* had...was it "Never Said?" I remember her being motionless and terrified...

So everyone should be relax, 'cause in a few years LDR will be coming out with amazing stuff like "Bollywood" and we'll look back on her early career missteps and laugh.

Liz Phair's super-awful SNL was post-Guyville iirc - oh no wait I'm thinking of the Tonight Show when she did one I think called "Double Dutch," that was pretty fuckin harsh

well yeah not many people in general do national TV spots before their first album is even out but i think in general there was a lot of chatter about Phair's stage fright and/or bad performances from very early on

i hadnt heard 'off to the races' til yesterday, its so good also -- i guess i dont really care if shes a trainwreck live

you guys, i just realized that ldr is totally the wife in manos: the hands of fate.

http://horrorfanzine.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/manos-the-hands-of-fate-15.jpg

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvi3w6460r1qzozj1.jpg

I remember her being motionless and terrified

I'm beginning to think, perhaps, that's part of the persona/schtick. Its been part of every public performance by LDR I've seen.

Its not gansta Sinatra, its well groomed time-warp abuse victim.

i can't deal with jaymc's deliberate obtuseness right now either. there is another part to that clause!!!! jesus christ people.

Uh, you asked what's rockist about live shows; I pointed out that live shows are, at least according to Kelefa Sanneh's landmark article (which I think most of us agree with, no?), one of the things that rockists most value. Putting live shows in opposition to music videos doesn't change that essential point, IMO; it simply delineates the sides more clearly. I dunno, I was just trying to be helpful.

i think the 'live shows are real UNLIKE MUSIC VIDEOS' really is the point of that bit, though. i don't think there's really that many people, r*ckist or otherwise, who across the board go "live performance doesn't matter, it's irrelevant, recorded music is all there is."

Maybe I misunderstood the context of Lex's question.

i think the 'live shows are real UNLIKE MUSIC VIDEOS' really is the point of that bit, though.

Yes, that's a big part, I agree. But I think there's also a lot of people who put a premium on "bands who can play their instruments" and the sacredness and raw energy of musicians and fans in a room together. And who categorically dismiss certain artists for supposedly not being able to achieve those things.

I would like to point out that I never actually said LDR was out of tune. My comments about tuning were in direct response to "it's impossible to sing in tune on the SNL stage" commentary that was at best tangentially related to the mewling harpy with the terrible voice that we saw on Saturday.

It's hard to sing with strings!

Wants to be Joanna Newsom; is barely Kimya Dawson.

But I think there's also a lot of people who put a premium on "bands who can play their instruments" and the sacredness and raw energy of musicians and fans in a room together. And who categorically dismiss certain artists for supposedly not being able to achieve those things.

i wasn't doing that. must i spell everything out? i was actually saying on twitter y'day morning that a shitty live performance doesn't = worthless artist, and i'm fine with DLR being a total studio creation who hit upon one great song. but i don't see why that means i should defend that dreadful performance! especially as the manner in which she failed was totally at odds with her on-record appeal. ie, she totally butchered everything great about her own song.

t-swift sang very well when i saw her live show, though i don't think i defended her pitchy live tv performances either.

I saw her on Jonathan Ross show.

how 'awful' was that one by comparison? (not a rhetorical Q)

i just watched this again and the beginning of video games really isn't bad at all actually! she's just completely at sea

it's like she doesn't understand her own instrument or how to use it which is a shame because when properly protooled it works it's beguiling and unique

haha god where do these accents she uses come from?? "a mill-ee-on yeaaaahhrs"

it is crazy how the anti-anti-anti-backlash backlash to the anti-backlash goes with this person, even on a personal level..... like i am watching Blue Jeans again and rooting for her all over again because honestly she is just VERY BIZARRE, in a way that she seems not really in control of, as if there are at least three or four separate homunculi inside her attempting to incant the charm that will release them (none of them, as DJP notes, particularly communicating with the others)

i think the 'live shows are real UNLIKE MUSIC VIDEOS' really is the point of that bit, though. i don't think there's really that many people, r*ckist or otherwise, who across the board go "live performance doesn't matter, it's irrelevant, recorded music is all there is."

― some dude, Monday, January 16, 2012 12:21 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

good framing there, I do think that you have to treat an artist's live performance and her studio performance as two completely separate entities, one should have no bearing on the other. but I don't think that live performances are completely irrelevant either - if they're good, it can elevate your appreciation of the artist, if they're bad, move on, you still got the studio recording honey

if you're all "I really loved 'video games' but after that SNL performance I just don't know" then smh @ u

if you're all "I really loved 'video games'" then smh @ u

I really loved 'video games'

actually itunes tells me I've only played it 4 times, ever. I don't even know why I'm in this thread. actually I do know why. I saw '200 new answers' and thought 'I really need to have an opinion on this and share it with everybody.' ; )

haha

i have a friend who is having trouble being around a large percentage of her friends at the moment because of this video games song + that twilight book

(she sees the two as being closely related and articulated why really well, but i fear if i try and explain what she said i'll get sbanned-sexist-asshole)