generation limbo: 20-somethings today, debt, unemployment, the questionable value of a college education

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http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2012/01/05/essay-new-approach-defend-value-humanities

talks a good talk but not seeing a lot of WANTED: ENGLISH MAJORS job ads, maybe I'm not looking in the right places

bob loblaw people (dayo), Saturday, 7 January 2012 01:48 (seven years ago) link

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/01/09/010912-news-college-costs-1-5/

iatee, Monday, 9 January 2012 19:01 (seven years ago) link

Back in the days of yore, before Bangalore, my mad english major skillz made me a good living as a technical writer. Or maybe is was my technical skillz that did it. Any way, it was one or the other.

Aimless, Monday, 9 January 2012 19:22 (seven years ago) link

well, you also weren't a hindoo

gnome rocognise gnome (remy bean), Monday, 9 January 2012 19:26 (seven years ago) link

nay, nor no vindaloo-sot, neither

Aimless, Monday, 9 January 2012 19:27 (seven years ago) link

Not very insightful or newsworthy imo, the 1% thing is kind of just a hook. Who isn't aware that Harvard et al are full of high-functioning super-keen workaholic children of upper-middle class to upper-class parents? The reason that demographics at elite universities are a demographic issue is not because the top 20 US colleges provide anything like a standard deviation better education than the next 200 colleges; it's the (alleged) resulting insularity of the social networks that develop at those schools. Really tho I suspect that whatever outcome disparity exists between people with BAs from Harvard vs. SUNY Stony Brook—a world-class university according to the usual rankers—looks a lot less significant when you compare students with similar pre-college backgrounds.

tinker tailor soldier sb (silby), Monday, 23 January 2012 05:54 (seven years ago) link

Not very insightful or newsworthy imo

yeah p much

i was a preteen blogger (Lamp), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 00:26 (seven years ago) link

i do love that xp

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 24 January 2012 02:37 (seven years ago) link

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/13/opinion/sunday/the-entrepreneurial-generation.html?pagewanted=all

did this ever get mentioned on ILX? I see some truth to the entrepreneurial spirit yada yada yada, but I don't see it as commercialism and complete lack of rebellion and dissent, I think it's about trying to establish a life outside of the failed system of corporate capitalism, even if it's just a sideline to the job that pays your bills.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 26 January 2012 22:16 (seven years ago) link

yeah we talked about it somewhere. maybe this thread. I made fun of the writer and then dyao said 'no he's cool' and now my gf really likes him because he writes about jane austen and h8ing academia.

iatee, Thursday, 26 January 2012 23:05 (seven years ago) link

dyao said 'no he's cool' (because he had him as a college prof)*

iatee, Thursday, 26 January 2012 23:05 (seven years ago) link

but I agree w/ your general assessment

iatee, Thursday, 26 January 2012 23:08 (seven years ago) link

he is my favourite academia hater

caek, Thursday, 26 January 2012 23:37 (seven years ago) link

yeah we talked about it somewhere. maybe this thread. I made fun of the writer and then dyao said 'no he's cool' and now my gf really likes him because he writes about jane austen and h8ing academia.

― iatee, Thursday, January 26, 2012 6:05 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i have not read that article but your gf otm

horseshoe, Friday, 27 January 2012 04:06 (seven years ago) link

she got her mom his book for xmas!

iatee, Friday, 27 January 2012 04:09 (seven years ago) link

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2094921_2094923_2105257,00.html

its like you can't even make it as an indie rock band anymore

keep working bb, http://i.imgur.com/zi7hd.gif

dave cool, Friday, 27 January 2012 04:11 (seven years ago) link

third thread that's been posted in

iatee, Friday, 27 January 2012 04:13 (seven years ago) link

think maybe that belongs in quiddities and agonies

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 27 January 2012 04:14 (seven years ago) link

no it belongs in

hell

try again, fascist (Matt P), Friday, 27 January 2012 04:20 (seven years ago) link

Deresiewicz follows up on that nyt piece

http://theamericanscholar.org/generational-conflict/

caek, Sunday, 29 January 2012 11:21 (seven years ago) link

I don't think that stanford anecdote is very revealing as the stanford student body isn't very representative of the generation or even the college-attending generation. like, I'd imagine the numbers would be a lot different at cal-state sacramento. it can be dangerous to make assumptions based on yr experience teaching at Yale or living in Portland. etc.

iatee, Sunday, 29 January 2012 19:47 (seven years ago) link

that's the knee-jerk response when people start ~talking~ about mild reforms. cf health care

iatee, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 14:37 (seven years ago) link

A real education policy would ban anaphora on the internet.

tinker tailor soldier sb (silby), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:39 (seven years ago) link

"One, for a small East Bay nonprofit, drew several hundred applications. The other, for the office of the Speaker of the California State Assembly—the second-most-powerful person in the eighth-largest economy on the planet—drew three."

Presumably people rationally calculated that at the small East Bay nonprofit there would be fewer layers between them and decision-makers and that they would get the kind of real-world experience with civic issues that people like WD constantly berate elite college students for not having. And that this was preferable to making coffee for the speaker of the assembly. I'm not sure this calculation is correct, by the way! But I'm sure it doesn't have to do with some kind of narcissistic entitlement on the part of Stanford students.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 31 January 2012 16:16 (seven years ago) link

it's just such a weird thing to take in isolation - like, is your argument that stanford students don't get involved enough in gov't? cause I'm sure that overall they're well represented in the offices of politicians across the country.

iatee, Tuesday, 31 January 2012 16:46 (seven years ago) link

oh man charles murray's 'coming apart: the state of white america' is just... the actual worst. im like 40 pages in and furious

Lamp, Saturday, 4 February 2012 07:52 (seven years ago) link

its incredible to me that someone so stupid and gross gets to write op-eds in impt newpapers and magazines instead of being kicked in the spine repeatedly

Lamp, Saturday, 4 February 2012 07:54 (seven years ago) link

this is how i feel about Malcolm Gladwell btw

sarahell, Saturday, 4 February 2012 08:38 (seven years ago) link

lamp did you see this

"Is This Racist?" colloquy: the American Enterprise Institute asks "How Thick Is Your Bubble?"

max, Saturday, 4 February 2012 13:35 (seven years ago) link

tyler cowen thinks it's great for some reason

iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 16:00 (seven years ago) link

I like the sleight of hand that lets him only talk about white people (the calculations are complicated enough without adding race into the equation!!)

dayo, Saturday, 4 February 2012 16:35 (seven years ago) link

tyler cowen thinks it's great for some reason

because tyler cowen is an idiot, is why he would think this

Lamp, Saturday, 4 February 2012 17:43 (seven years ago) link

he posts good links but he is like the ultimate troll, it is sad how many times a day he trolls me

iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 17:51 (seven years ago) link

well honestly if you can place yourself within murray's 5% elite this book is tremendously flattering to you. your moral and spiritual superiority to everyone else is never the result of longterm economic trends or technological changes or trade policy or manipulation of institutions on a scale so vast its practically invisible no its because you dont watch nascar and stayed married

Lamp, Saturday, 4 February 2012 17:54 (seven years ago) link

example:

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2012/02/department-of-huh.html

iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 17:54 (seven years ago) link

yeah I mean on the one hand I think it's true that we need to look at cultural factors - like, staying married pretty clearly helps you as an economic unit (having few kids too), so that's not *not* a thing, it's just a pretty shitty explanation for why certain people are billionaires

iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 17:59 (seven years ago) link

my friend sent me a link to the david brooks op-ed on this dude and on a brief skim it didn't seem that objectionable to me. like he frames it in vaguely OWS 1%/99% language and talks about tribalism & segmentation, which I broadly agree with is a problem (in-so-far as it fosters an us-against-them mentality. like maybe rich people would be more inclined to pay taxes if the thought was 'I am contributing towards a common good' rather than 'I can't believe POOR PEOPLE are attaching themselves like remoras to my veins of flowing money.')

but yeah as max's gawker post points out, the whole enterprise is really gross, but I do think every rich white family should take in at least one poor white child so that the rich family's industrious can ~vibe~ into the poor child, it would make for a good reality show, you could monetize this

dayo, Saturday, 4 February 2012 18:01 (seven years ago) link

nah see here's brooks: "Democrats claim America is threatened by the financial elite, who hog society’s resources. But that’s a distraction. The real social gap is between the top 20 percent and the lower 30 percent. The liberal members of the upper tribe latch onto this top 1 percent narrative because it excuses them from the central role they themselves are playing in driving inequality and unfairness."

the liberal members of the upper tribe latch onto this top 1 percent narrative because the top 1 percent narrative is the narrative that actually matters. talking about the social gap between the top 20 percent and the lower 30 percent is hiding the ball.

iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 18:09 (seven years ago) link

what if I adopt chinese baby girl instead? x-post

mh, Saturday, 4 February 2012 18:10 (seven years ago) link

that depends entirely on whether or not you are a tiger mom

iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 18:10 (seven years ago) link

guess that means you're no longer part of the tribe

dayo, Saturday, 4 February 2012 18:11 (seven years ago) link

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/04/the-one-percent-versus-the-twenty-percent/

I didn't read this before I said that I swear

iatee, Saturday, 4 February 2012 18:13 (seven years ago) link

haha yeah I just kind of glossed over that

I do believe that americans should stop being so individualistic though ~love your brothers and sisters~

dayo, Saturday, 4 February 2012 18:15 (seven years ago) link

maybe I've just been interacting with too many libertarians lately

dayo, Saturday, 4 February 2012 18:21 (seven years ago) link

i am not reading david brooks take on this book because the idea of it i have in my head is already depressing enough

yeah I mean on the one hand I think it's true that we need to look at cultural factors

i think cultural factors have to be put in proper context though. like its weird to use the gingrichian idea that young working class men 'dont value work' rather than think about the way say, our culture constructs gender roles so that young men are often shut out of low-skill low-wage service jobs like office cleaning, health care &c

Lamp, Saturday, 4 February 2012 18:34 (seven years ago) link


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