Transport in London is shit

although now that I've got that off my chest I feel like I should say that transport in london is still pretty fucking amazing.

in my experience, the route changes are mostly to do with drivers hours - they can't drive passengers after a certain number of hours. i once got on a bus which turned us all out *1 stop* later (and then proceeded past where i was going and onto the depot empty).

but yes, anyone who's ever lived anywhere where the buses stop at 18:00 and there are no buses at all on a sunday would never complain at london transport.

Seriously. I moved here from a city with pretty much 2 and a half subway lines (for over 3 million people).

but yes, anyone who's ever lived anywhere where the buses stop at 18:00 and there are no buses at all on a sunday would never complain at london transport.

the village up the hill from where i grew up had one bus a WEEK and i still complain about london transport's permanent guerrilla campaign to ruin people's lives

buses abruptly terminating mid-journey is one of the worst things it does. especially if it's a pretty packed bus, the one behind that everyone has to try to cram on to is also packed, and for the entire miserable experience you get to pay the overpriced fare twice

in my experience, the route changes are mostly to do with drivers hours - they can't drive passengers after a certain number of hours.

seems what the problem is, is failing to plan adequately so that drivers can actually get to the end of the route within their hours (ie including taking into account mental traffic jams which mean it takes 45 minutes to drive round holborn circus FOR EXAMPLE) (cuz in practice, that's when it most often happens - ie when all the passengers are at their most stressed/late/grumpy anyway)

Barclays bikes are definitely my favourite thing about transport in London these days. Use them all the time for quick trips into town etc, much more convenient than taking my own bike.

citymapper not so good as it doesn't have regular rail in it (only the orange lined "overground" rail)

xxxp, can you ask for a ticket from the driver if the bus terminates early or is that only if it breaks down?

> seems what the problem is, is failing to plan adequately so that drivers can actually get to the end of the route within their hours

traffic isn't that predictable though. you could err on the side of caution but that'd mean drivers getting to the depot way ahead of their shift change and the result of that's the same, a driver not driving (although it would mean the bus was free to go out again. but is the bottleneck the buses or the drivers?)

> you get to pay the overpriced fare twice

the three times this has happened to me in the 10 years i've been here, the driver's written a transfer ticket. or i've just walked the extra mile. and it's not an issue if you have a season ticket.

tbf if the driver wrote a transfer ticket for everyone who had to change bus for this reason during peak time - it would be quicker to walk

They used to do one ticket for everyone on the bus.

^^exactly. plus factor in bus drivers who ignore you if you ask for them. i've never seen anyone ask for or receive a transfer ticket at these times cuz everyone recognises that it's just more hassle at a time when you're already stressed out of your mind.

ANOTHER problem w/london transport is how british people are SO ACCEPTING of INADEQUATE SERVICE

"exactly" xp to post

um, Oyster card?

The system is never going to work because the way London is built, managing or directing traffic is pretty much ungovernable (short of extending the congestion charge boundaries to Brent Cross/Uxbridge/Croydon/Tilbury and then you'll still get BBC/Evening Standard whines about OH I HAVE TO PAY FOR PARKING MY CAR IT'S SOOOOOOO UNFAAAAAAIR). The free-for-all roadworks are a direct result of eighties Thatcher deregulation and nobody's got any teeth to do anything about it because the lobbyists will come round like moths and talk them out of it.

^^^^this. All things considered, the buses in London are a fantastic service, compared to just about any other city on earth, in my experience. The occasional terminated journey is a small price to pay. Also, despite fare increases, London buses are still very good value- compare Oxford, where a 2 mile journey can cost £2.50, or Manchester, where Oxford Rd has 4 bus companies competing for business and yet you'll still pay more than you would in London.

The Tube on the other hand is a disgrace, but that again is a legacy of Conservative deregulation, like the national rail network in microcosm.

I don't pay twice in terminating-early situations (used to happen a lot more often on the Victoria-bound 38, especially in the bendy days), I tell the driver on bus #2 that I've just been booted off the one in front and walk past. OK, back in the bendy days, this wasn't even an issue.

> SO ACCEPTING of INADEQUATE SERVICE

if the alternative is being wound up by tiny things, of minor delays "RUINING" your life, i'll take the accepting.

xpost Yes, I've never had a driver ask me to pay again in those situations. They usually know if the bus in front has terminated early, and if you say that's what happened, they'll just shrug and thumb you on. Doesn't stop the infuriating situation sometimes where the announcement that the bus is terminating is made, but the bus you're supposed to be decanting to shoots past just as you're getting off the terminator.

yeah drivers aren't deliberately making things hard for anyone, just doing what must be a difficult job at the best of times. No excuse for rudeness, but rude drivers are very much the minority.

xpost I don't know about that. While I try to maintain a zen-like calm in these situations, it's very hard not to let RAGE take hold of you. On one memorable occasion I was running down the road after a bus, with a schoolboy iirc, both of us roaring obscenities, he stopped, took off his shoe and hurled it at the back of the bus and I threw a book I was holding.

Both slightly rueful afterwards as we went and collected our belongings, but agreed it was, in his words, 'whack'.

and for the entire miserable experience you get to pay the overpriced fare twice

No you don't, you just walk on the 2nd bus without paying, that's what I always do... and whenever I see my fellow (stranded) partners pulling out their Oystercards for the 2nd journey, I always feel like going up to them and saying, "What are you doing? This journey is free!". Haven't done it yet.

I have a pass, sometimes revalidate it just for kicks.

My bus usage is such that on most occasions I fully expect to use at least four buses, at which point the cost for the day caps out at £4.00 (I don't use the tube). On the few occasions when I know I'm only going to use two buses (for a there and back trip = £2.60), I always demand an extension ticket when a bus terminates prematurely. I have never had a problem with drivers being unwilling to provide extension tickets. It seems it's an easy matter for them to tap something into their console, which then issues an extension ticket. It's actually quite simple because it's irrelevant where you got on or are planning to go as the £1.30 fare covers the entire journey of the bus. Therefore the extension ticket is valid for the remainder of the bus route (but subject to time limitation, of course).

Alternatively (as suggested above) you can just brazen it out and walk onto the second bus, although that can occasionally lead to problems. Better to have an extension ticket in such situations.

Or, of course, you could get a bus pass for £17.80 a week and not have to worry about any of this.

I could, but that would involve me wasting money since I don't use the bus every day.

Of the last six journeys I've taken on the 63 going to work, I think 4 of them have stopped early. It's not a new development, but it seems to be getting worse.
I sent a complaint letter to TFL back in July? maybe August? about it (about it and the way the drivers can be such dickbags about giving out transfers !!!), and they didn't bother to respond.
It just happened again this morning... bus driver told everyone to get on the other 63 in front... except that it wouldn't let anyone on. FANTASTIC.

TFL cover a massive area -- better surely to make the complaint to the specific bus company covering your area and routes: put their complaints number* on yr mobile and ramp it up the moment this happens

(it's on the bus somewhere, but obv with iphones and such is now much easier to find after the fact)

I somehow spent £14 on my oyster yesterday before I'd even made my trip home, even though I didn't leave the house till noon. What the fuck happened? How is it even possible when there's supposedly a price cap? (My trip - bus to Shoreditch, then Liverpool St -> Bank -> Waterloo [through that odd Waterloo and City line] -> Surbiton.)

most likely is that it failed to check you out of a journey -- when you swipe at the end, if it doesn't read it for some reason, it treats it as you doing a runner (also if you forget to) (or actually do a runner)

Isn't there separate caps for tubes, trains and buses?

There shouldn't be for anything that would be covered by a standard one-day travelcard. Mark S is probably right.

Sounds like you were capped at the price of a zone 1-6 anytime travelcard (which is ore than I would have thought):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx

Waterloo and City line a likely culprit for that - no gates, you can exit without swiping.

yep, go to a desk and explain what happened and they'll refund you

yeah I was surprised to find myself suddenly out in the open of Waterloo station, but thought I'd be alright because I was immediately swiping again to get onto a train anyway. Bawbags. (That's the first serious problem I've had with transport in London, though!)

yes waterloo is terrible for that (as well as actually getting lost and going in a giant circle via underground passages for hours on end): always swipe out even if it means hunting around -- the first time i made this mistake i was with a student-age person... when i told her that was weird i seem to have escaped without swiping she literally screamed a little, grabbed my card and ran around till she found somewhere to swipe me out (they have loans to pay back) -- you have a few seconds' grace apparently

A few seconds? I suppose they have to "time out" your journey sooner or later but would've thought you'd get a lot more leeway than that.

london bridge is bad for that too

i was very struck by that little scream -- she may have exaggerated the lack of time allowed to get the point home

A few seconds? I suppose they have to "time out" your journey sooner or later but would've thought you'd get a lot more leeway than that.

I'm sure I remember an occasion when I went home after work via a few beers in finsbury park, without touching out or in again, and only getting charged for the one journey. i hope i'm not making this up.

i think different territories have different policies or programming maybe? there was a whole year when some of the south london stations wouldn't accept oysters at all

I didn't touch out or back in once (gates were open), half an hour drink, timed me out.

Vauxhall had a problem for ages where even if you did touch in, it wouldn't register it on your journey history. So you'd get charged extra.

Of the last six journeys I've taken on the 63 going to work, I think 4 of them have stopped early. It's not a new development, but it seems to be getting worse.
I sent a complaint letter to TFL back in July? maybe August? about it (about it and the way the drivers can be such dickbags about giving out transfers !!!), and they didn't bother to respond.
It just happened again this morning... bus driver told everyone to get on the other 63 in front... except that it wouldn't let anyone on. FANTASTIC.

― salsa shark, Thursday, November 17, 2011 9:39 AM (9 hours ago)

Aaaaand 2/2 today. The driver on the way home didn't even bother making an announcement that the bus would stop early, just flashed the lights when he arrived at the 'last' stop. At least the 63 driver immediately in front actually let the other bus rejects on.

three of us flicking the Vs at the 43 driver who decided to drive his bus with 1 passenger slowly along the queue making "hey, try the next bus maybe?" gestures at us. nice moment.

(That's the first serious problem I've had with transport in London, though!)

aaand number two is the entire victoria line being closed this weekend. taking a sleeping bag on the bus it is.

i often wonder whether the much-vaunted improvements that tfl have shut down london every weekend to make since before i moved here SEVEN YEARS AGO will ever materialise

the overland system has improved immeasurably (and not just the ELL), but that's new stuff opening rather than stuff closing and repoening

repwning

No tube near me so I take the bus. Why exactly do buses terminate early? Assume it's to do with them being able to claim that 99% of their buses are consistently on schedule?