opeth C or D

Just watched Lamentations. I think it's probably better (for me, anyway) to approach Opeth as if they are a prog band rather than a metal band.

This means, of course, approaching them in a cape.

Right, that does it. I only have 4 of their albums, my bro has the rest. *gets copying*

the first four albums are definitely classic, especially Orchid, Morningrise, and STill Life (I really like My Arms Your Hearse too)

I was bored by Blackwater Park and haven't heard the rest.

I have seen Opeth 5 times. I am Agalloch's booking agent. I have never heard Katatonia. Where the hell do I start?

OK now I have all the Opeth albums, but no real inclination to listen to them. I think Siegbran has a point when he says that they don't really stretch themselves towards dissonance or unusual sounds. It's generally either heavy-ish melodic metal or folkiness, with little in between. Their very best songs make this not matter, but there's no way I can love this stuff as much as the majority of new-era black metal I've heard so far.

"The Baying Of The Hounds", "The Moor" or "The Drapery Falls" are as good a place to start as any. Their best folky section IMO is the bit between about 2 and 5 minutes in "Blackwater Park". That bit actually chills me slightly.

"Their very best songs make this not matter, but there's no way I can love this stuff as much as the majority of new-era black metal I've heard so far."

Why compare it to this (not that you have with this sentence, but it sounds like you have compared them or are associating the two in some way)?

"...they don't really stretch themselves towards dissonance or unusual sounds"

Unusual sounds? I agree. Dissonance? They use dissonance all the time!

Dissonance is perhaps too general. I'm talking about what many would term 'noise', clashing genuinely obtuse amelodic sounds in order to disorientate and challenge the listener. Too much of Opeth is, I believe, comfortable in its tried-and-trusted melodicism. The dude's cookie-monster vocals don't count!

My comparison is perhaps a fallacy, based on my relatively recent pledge to 'get into metal'. I've known about Opeth a lot longer than I've known about all this wonderful stuff I've only recently found out about, and it's natural to compare the two. As you say, treating Opeth as a prog band may bear more fruit, and may prevent me from abandoning them entirely.

Certainly clean production is a key ingredient in Opeth's studio work. It was the first hurdle I had to get over before beginning to love them.

But I agree that there's plenty of dissonance in say the title track on Deliverance.

Just understand that they were a studio band for years and years, almost never playing live at all until Blackwater Park. And as for the noise... they are really technically advanced players. They don't want to be Darkthrone.

These guys are by far the best at what they do.

My only gripes about Opeth are:

1) The production on the first 3 albums is sub-par
2) The first song on Ghost Reveries has a Tool-ish riff
3) Their incredible drummer has left the building

Otherwise, I love love love Opeth.

"I have never heard Katatonia. Where the hell do I start?"

brave murder day. then discouraged ones. then continue forward if you like that stuff.

Even Though Katatonia Are One Of My Very Favorite Rock & Roll Bands I Do Have A Complaint

Hmm. Well my comments on this thread amount to a battle within myself, really. I want to have absorbed and appreciated their entire output, but I'm not sure whether I can motivate myself to go through the process. Some of what I've heard demonstrates inspired songwriting and breathtaking musicianship, but equally a lot merges into an indistinct soup of Nordic handwringing. If you could suggest a couple of songs from each album to concentrate upon, I'd be grateful!

"Bleak Harvest", "Windowpane", "Deliverance", "Baying of the Hounds" are a few of my favorite tracks from the last 4 albums respectively.

Haha, "Baying of the Hounds" is my favourite Opeth song full stop (at this point)!

i think this is my favorite metal album:

http://static.metal-archives.com/images/4/7/4/474.jpg

just sayin' (although the dude from opeth does guest on it).

A friend of mine criticized Lamentations for not containing enough chaos (haw), but, as I said before, I think this is an innapropriate way to approach a band that is essentially a prog band anymore (ok, there are the occasional deathy vox, but what else, especially anymore?). I appreciate Lamentations as a musical performance, not in the same way that I would appreciate, say, Bad Brains Live at CBGB's (as a show). It seems like a common criticism (from metal fans) of Opeth is exactly that: not enough chaos (dissonance, heaviness, etc). This isn't really a criticism in itself, though. It's just about frustrated expectations.

*inappropriate, ugh

Frustrated expectations, yes, but I can't help listening to this stuff and sometimes really wishing they'd throw in a really awesome techno breakdown or noisescape or whatever, just to heighten the sense of progression, to give the ear more things to play off one another.

See, I can't imagine any of that in Opeth's music. There is a lot of stuff going on in there as it is!

other albums i liked in high school:

http://www.icedearth.com/discography/c_burntofferings_400.jpg

http://fsmat.at/%7Eatrax/Florilegium/Paradise-Lost_Draconian-Times_cover.jpg

http://www.metal-rules.com/zine/images/stories/interviews/amorphis/amorphis-elegy.jpg

(lj this one has a silly techno break in one song)

Yeah, Roxy, there's a lot, but I dunno, a lot of the loud parts and a lot of the folky parts sound similar to one another, even if they're devilishly complex or immaculately juxtaposed or whatever.

Look, I'll shut up and listen to the yet-unheard albums, see if anything changes. :)

Haha, I only threw techno breaks in as an example of contrast, of surprise. I can't imagine many bands pulling it off *in actuality* without it sounding a teeny bit incongruent/silly.

JGO:

Perhaps you should start with the recent live album, The Roundhouse Tapes, which is a fairly career-spanning 2CD set.

...but I have all 8 studio albums right here on my computer!

*checks brother's collection*

Haha, he's got the Roundhouse Tapes AND Live in Toronto...

OK fuck I stick Blackwater Park (live) on and the idiot crowd are CLAPPING their way through the REALLY CREEPY, MOVING, BEAUTIFUL FOLKY BIT, aaaaargh

I agree that Still Life is their masterpiece.

Ghost Reveries is the only one I have, it leaned a bit too much toward the folky/soft for my taste. Love the first track!

So Still Life or Blackwater Park next?

so you agree with me, roxymuzak. yay!

big hoos, opt for 'still life' next, but really you can't go wrong with 'blackwater park' either, since it's fantastic as well, and perhaps the acknowledged fan favourite.

louis, i can imagine that slogging through their entire catalogue in one go is a pretty full-on task. there is just so much to take on board - the evolution of the band, the path that it has taken to get where it is today, is actually one of the more intriguing aspects of the band. also, there's so much to discover in opeth's music, a lot of which will only become apparent after several listens. 'the moor', as you identified somewhere, is one of the defining moments though.

nate, i really like the production on 'morningrise' :) often sounds like the tunes are hiding beneath layers of frost, but the music and sound does an impeccable job of encapsulating the atmosphere of the classic cover art.

I have listened a bit to "Blackwater Park" as they have been sort of recommended to me as the metal band I could like.

And, I mean, parts of it is really great. Some really nice atmospheric arrangements, great playing, great compositions. Some of the track I really like.

But then, in other parts of the record, they have to drag the entire thing down with that unbearable growling and way exaggerated über-heavy marshall riffs that make me scream "Why???" Why do they have to ruin an otherwise good record with those unlistenable elements?

Hey, Geir, you might like their acoustic album "Damnation".

Oops, sorry, not exactly acoustic - but from what I've read, it's minus the growling and heavy riffs.

Yeah, Geir, you would like Damnation a lot, and I think there are gonna be a lot of things you'll like about the upcoming album.

I definitely haven't written off the first 3... but at this point I own so much Opeth. It's hard to feel like I'm missing anything. Anticipating the new album though!

Well, the parts I liked sounded kind of like Porcupine Tree - a band that is obviously not metal but I know they still have several metal fans. And Opeth without the obvious metal elements would be really good. I checked out that album because it is sort of considered their "classic", but maybe I should have a listen to the others too. Except they will then be their answers to "The Elder" and "Their Majesties Satanic Request", I suspect: "Unrepresentative" albums that I like just because they sound atypical of the act's usual style.

'blackwater park', the record is largely phenomenal. 'bleak' is perhaps the best opeth track out there, and then you have undeniable classics like 'the drapery falls' (awesome live incidentally) and 'the leper affinity'. but i've never been sold as much on the second half of the record. the title track is an engaging riff-monster, but 'dirge for november' (one of the least inspired opeth tunes ever) and 'funeral portrait' are pretty unimpressive to me when weighed up against the band's best material.

anticipating 'watershed' along with everybody else!

just sat through 'black rose immortal'. it's majestic all the way through, but doesn't have much of a cohesive feel to it. sort of feels like a pastiche of a whole bunch of individual passages. that's sort of cool in a way - makes the experience of listening to it feel like an expression of distinctly different moods, kind of like the ballet.

i've actually been on a bit of a 'morningrise' kick recently. i used to play this one a few times a day back in around 1998. i haven't revisited it in a serious way in quite a while. pretty fantastic record.

yeah - other bands who on the surface seemed super-harsh turned out to be up to at least as much interesting stuff as Opeth. Especially Katatonia (who have also jumped the shark tho), the Brave Murder Days comp was kinda my "why would I listen to Opeth when this is sorta aiming for the same mood only hitting it so much harder and deeper" moment - Opeth starts to seem like the whitewashed version of something a lot more complex & interesting

If the "Brave Murder Days comp" is the same as the Brave Murder Day album (or overlaps it), then I have finally gotten around to listening to this. I ahve to say though, I don't find the Katatonia to be "a lot more complex & interesting" - in fact, the opposite. Not that the Katatonia is bad. I like it and will continue to listen to it, but it seems a bit apples & oranges to compare it to Opeth, despite having Akerfeldt's vocals on it. The Katatonia is a lot more goth, even a bit shoegazer - where Opeth is more prog & folk. Katatonia is a bit droney - not as much dynamic and structural varation - though perhaps more consistent in mood. I can see why some might prefer it, but I don't think it's quite the Opeth-killer it was made out to be.

yep, it's definitely very difficult to put opeth and katatonia in the same basket. the beauty of it is, you can have both bands in your world and they'll provide completely different listening experiences and take you to different places.

in terms of hitting a particular mood in a profound way, i'd agree that katatonia is more fitting. the premise of the songs often relates to melancholy and depression of a day-to-day nature. raw, candid emotions are channeled very explicitly and directly through both the lyrics and vocal deliveries. jonas renkse appears to be some sort of depressive.

opeth are undeniably sombre and melancholy at times, but listening to their songs is like hearing a story or narrative unfold. m. akerfeldt is all about developing and creating a sad scenario and musical backdrop for us. there is a fairly elaborate creative process to most opeth songs that stems from an imagined and often rather ethereal and otherwordly vision. the listener is therefore best advised to approach the music as a complete construction, rather than as an expression of sheer tangible emotion that naturally translates itself into song. that's not to suggest that opeth are wooden, soulless bores a la dream theater. for opeth, the emotive element is derived from an all-encomassing love for music and a desire to explore the possibilities of song and sound in innovative and touching ways. the fact that the crafting of music is such an honest and inspired process for opeth is one of the principle resons the music can be so affecting.

C

Blackwater Park is a great work soundtrack today.

Blackwater Park's alright, but I'm really not into the clean vocals, they're limp. And the cookie monster vocals sound a bit noncommittal too. My favourite parts are the intros to The Drapery Falls and the title track - great epic riffing. Are there any bands who do this kind of thing but better?

Honestly I feel like "Ghosts of Perdition" is their ultimate high point, everything they do well at top level within a mere 11 minutes!

crapeth

This means, of course, approaching them in a cape.

― roxymuzak, Thursday, January 3, 2008 9:16 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark

the grand conjuration

I'd been following them for a while but Blackwater Park was where I really got on board. That's also when they started touring the states.

At this point though, I think the production has improved so much, that I strongly recommend the last two for the new listener.

If you're just looking for brutality though, Deliverance is their heaviest work through and through. That title track... wow.

Also want to add that I've seen them live six times now. I've seen them be good, and I've seen them totally suck (due to the drummer not showing up, and the drum tech attempting to fill in). But this year's tour, with Enslaved in support, was just epic. Opeth has finally become a world class stage act. I mean I felt like I was seeing Rush or Zeppelin. It was that powerful. Took them 20 years, but they've got it.

crapeth

― Spectrum, Sunday, October 4, 2009 11:07 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

Probably their best since Heritage and my favorite since Ghost Reveries

Listening to the Swedish version now, it's fascinating how in English my ear goes right to the lyrics, rising out of the music, but in Swedish it all sounds very much of an equal-tiered piece.

Really like this

I love listening to Mikael talk about music he likes. That "Whats in My Bag" makes me want to go out and listen to all of those records.

I shot this video with him back in 2012, when I worked at Roadrunner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgbEajT3TnE

Probably their best since Heritage and my favorite since Ghost Reveries

Same. Hoping they do all their future records in Swedish as well.

this album just didn't do anything for me on first listen, and I've really liked their stuff since Ghost Reveries or so. Will give it another shot.

North American tour dates!

Feb 13 - Cleveland, OH - The Agora Ballroom
Feb 14 - Chicago, IL - Riviera Theatre
Feb 15 - Detroit, MI - Royal Oak Music Theatre
Feb 17 - Worcester, MA - Palladium
Feb 18 - Montreal, QC - Mtelus
Feb 19 - Toronto, ON - Rebel
Feb 21 - New York, NY - Apollo Theater
Feb 22 - New York, NY - Apollo Theater
Feb 23 - Silver Spring, MD - The Fillmore
Feb 25 - Indianapolis, IN - Egyptian Room at Old National Centre
Feb 26 - Nashville, TN - Ryman Auditorium
Feb 28 - Houston, TX - House of Blues
Feb 29 - Dallas, TX - The Pavilion at Toyota Music Factory
Mar 1 - Kansas City, MO - Arvest Bank Theatre at the Midland
Mar 2 - Denver, CO - The Mission Ballroom
Mar 4 - Los Angeles, CA - Hollywood Palladium

Also, there's a non-album track streaming on Decibel's site.

I gotta admit that having never been to the Apollo Theater, the idea of going there for the first time to see Opeth feels a little weird.

I bought Ryman tickets. Unless something comes up it'll be my first Ryman show and it's definitely an odd feeling.

opeth are playing the ryman? that fuckin rules

They're hitting so many classic venues on this tour.

Another good one, includes embarrassing drunk Steve Wilson story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjV8JYcbtFw

I love his honesty and shamelessness. Such a soft-spoken dork, he seems like he's the best.

Blackwater Park remains tough to find at a good price.

20th anniversary this year, perhaps a reissue is imminent.

It really went out of print?!

Nah, it seems like it is still in print; Music For Nations is under Sony/BMG now.

but I can't help listening to this stuff and sometimes really wishing they'd throw in a really awesome techno breakdown

The other day I went out to rake the leaves, and I felt like listening to Opeth, but not their early growly stuff or their more recent stuff, something in the mid-catalog Steven Wilson sweet spot. My instincts told me "Damnation," but for the life of me I couldn't remember where it fell on the Opeth spectrum (getting old). So I took a gamble, and yep, jazz/folk/prog/Radiohead Opeth hit the spot.