― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:01 (twenty years ago) link
... not, like I said, that I'm projecting or anything :)
― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:08 (twenty years ago) link
And Stephen King is not innocent hisself. Maybe skeered though.
― Neudonym, Monday, 7 July 2003 18:10 (twenty years ago) link
I think in this case -- I'd have to read what he actually said -- King was just blinded. I like both Harry Potter and Pullman, but I can't see how anyone could argue that Order of the Phoenix is better than the Pullman books. It's got that whole "it's about damn time it came out"/"hunger is the best spice" thing going for it, granted.
― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:14 (twenty years ago) link
Hey now, back up -- I wasn't saying THAT. As noted above, I haven't even read his books yet (though I know something of the general story and approve).
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:18 (twenty years ago) link
My own feeling is that they are much better than Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy, which is their only contemporary competitor. Will kids (and adults as well) still be wild about Harry 100 years from now, or 200? My best guess is that he will indeed stand time's test and wind up on a shelf where only the best are kept; I think Harry will take his place with Alice, Huck, Frodo, and Dorothy, and this is one series not just for the decade, but for the ages.
I would reprint the whole review but I don't want the copyright police after me.
― Nicole (Nicole), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:22 (twenty years ago) link
PUT DOWN THE COMPUTER, NICOLE.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:25 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:33 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:35 (twenty years ago) link
― Nicole (Nicole), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:38 (twenty years ago) link
http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200_web/drp000/p043/p04307mc5wb.jpg
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:42 (twenty years ago) link
(Is it Pas or Pax? God, I'm hopeless.)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:43 (twenty years ago) link
― Nicole (Nicole), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:43 (twenty years ago) link
― Neudonym, Monday, 7 July 2003 18:48 (twenty years ago) link
I suspect the substance of the themes and the brilliant bravura superscience will be lost in a movie adaptation, which will surely aim at the HP audience. I think these are genuinely great books on all kinds of levels, far better than Tolkien in pretty much every way. They are probably my favourite children's books ever, even ahead of Alan Garner. Well made, a lot of it will look really fabulous, especially duelling polar bears in armour. I hope they don't cop out on the seriousness, or the religious and scientific content.
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:50 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Neudonym, Monday, 7 July 2003 19:02 (twenty years ago) link
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 7 July 2003 19:21 (twenty years ago) link
However, I wouldn't compare them to the H.P. tales - I think that _HDM_ is meant for a more mature audience, and the stories are infinitely more complex. While the H.P. story line is becoming increasingly complex and addresses more issues, the stories still make me think of fifth- and sixth-grade student readers, whereas I think of seventh- and eight-grades as being the starting points for _HDM_ (which is the same range for The Lord of the Rings in my mind, though The Hobbit works with younger little ones.
― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Monday, 7 July 2003 20:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 20:48 (twenty years ago) link
Why eight?
― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:06 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:16 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:20 (twenty years ago) link
HDM is very pompous, portentous, but full of excellent tales which do try and push the envelope (ick) for children's fiction. He's really made an effort, and while it all gets a bit up its own arse, it's pretty damn good reading.
― Mark C (Mark C), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:43 (twenty years ago) link
I assume you're able to get in there already, surely.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:57 (twenty years ago) link
― That Girl (thatgirl), Monday, 7 July 2003 22:27 (twenty years ago) link
― adam (adam), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 05:25 (twenty years ago) link
― That Girl (thatgirl), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 06:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 07:23 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 08:51 (twenty years ago) link
― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 09:20 (twenty years ago) link
Is anyone going to buy/read Lyra's Oxford?
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 09:41 (twenty years ago) link
― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 09:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 09:51 (twenty years ago) link
― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 11:37 (twenty years ago) link
― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:01 (twenty years ago) link
("for the Dads")
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:03 (twenty years ago) link
― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Dada, Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:05 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:06 (twenty years ago) link
― That Girl (thatgirl), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 15:15 (twenty years ago) link
― j fail (cenotaph), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:22 (twenty years ago) link
― J (Jay), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:25 (twenty years ago) link
― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:27 (twenty years ago) link
I thought the third was disappointing, but I don't know how it couldn't have been. Pullman was throwing his never ever-wider with every book (staring out in our world at the beginning of Knife was a great shock, and the dust = dark matter stuff was good too). But the third kept having to add more and more concepts, and then characters to explain concepts, to close all the doors it had opened (ha ha). Oh here's xx swooping in to explain what needs to happen next. Felt a little rickedy. Lots of compelling locales/events (land of the dead esp) but the overall shape was a little diffuse.
― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Thursday, 7 August 2003 16:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 7 August 2003 16:24 (twenty years ago) link
finally got round to s2e2
― mark s, Sunday, 29 November 2020 21:20 (three years ago) link
Not feeling this season yet. Both kids’ acting was pretty poor throughout.
― the thing that the angry Left forbids (hardcore dilettante), Sunday, 29 November 2020 21:55 (three years ago) link
Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note that this show's 2020 season is nominated in the 2020 ILX TV poll:
ILX's Best Television of 2020 Poll / VOTING AND CAMPAIGNING THREAD / Voting Ends After January 29, 2021
If you like this show and you'd like to see it have a good showing in the poll (running in February) all you need to do is submit a ballot including it and your other favorites (3 minimum, 25 maximum, ranked by your favorite to least favorite) to forksclovetofu at gmail. It'll take five minutes; get to it!
― the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 21 January 2021 19:46 (three years ago) link
finished season 2 the other day! i thought it was a big improvement on season 1 (especially in the daemon department, aka the most important department) while still feeling like it's missing something essential and ineffable that the books had. it seems like they're neutering the "killing god" aspect of the books, which might make season 3 very weird, and they've totally messed up scoresby and the witches. but they've got the will/lyra relationship down, and ruth wilson is transfixing even as she's completely different from my conception of the character from the books lol
― boz conspiracy by toby hus (voodoo chili), Thursday, 21 January 2021 20:02 (three years ago) link
Lin-Manual Miranda is terrible in this!
― Dan I., Saturday, 30 January 2021 20:17 (three years ago) link
horrifically miscast, it’s true
― tiwa-nty one savage (voodoo chili), Saturday, 30 January 2021 20:25 (three years ago) link
Season 3 is 2 episodes in - one of the Belgian reviewers called this whole series "probably the best fantasy series ever"
― StanM, Wednesday, 7 December 2022 17:55 (one year ago) link
I will probably watch the last season, but I found season 2 to be a bit dull
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Wednesday, 7 December 2022 18:00 (one year ago) link
waiting with bated breath for the final book of dust book lol, but i will def check out this season. i have absolutely no idea how they're gonna manage to adapt this final book, but i am intrigued to see how they fail
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 7 December 2022 18:55 (one year ago) link
it's years since i read these and i remember book three as hurried -- this version has a measured pace to it that is maybe righting that?
― mark s, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 19:17 (one year ago) link
just got a massive goosebumps moment so that's a 👍🏽
sadly it involved lin-manuel miranda 👎🏽
― mark s, Tuesday, 3 January 2023 22:13 (one year ago) link
Didn’t watch the first season past a couple episodes as it seemed to be sticking to the original book so closely, and because I wasn’t enjoying McAvoy and the Lyra actress
Super curious to see this season though - thought the third book was disappointing but I’m interested to see how they do the final battle and God and the wheely creatures and whatnot
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 4 January 2023 00:01 (one year ago) link
I enjoyed in the 3rd book how the literal actual death of god was like a passing thing buried in the middle of a paragraph and you might have missed it.
― The land of dreams and endless remorse (hardcore dilettante), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 06:10 (one year ago) link
It was the same in the show I now realise. There was this very brief scene with a large crystal cube that has a person/angel curled up in it that they disintegrated. I didnt understand what it was but I do now.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 07:27 (one year ago) link
the wheely creatures look a bit too like if snorky from the banana splits turned up in avatar -- and the rush through the plot-points is beginning to arrive: mary's discovery of the amber lens seemed both too easy and under-explained
its various settings are still great and i feel that dafne keen has grown into the role and the character now that lyra (like keen) is a little older
ruth wilson remains MVP
― mark s, Wednesday, 4 January 2023 10:41 (one year ago) link
iorek byrnison giving mcavoy a richly deserved hard time lol
claws shd have been out tho
― mark s, Wednesday, 4 January 2023 18:47 (one year ago) link
the battle in heaven was p well realised IMO, tho it also makes you realise how dr who-ish the steampunky dimension of this story can get -- like the story will be resolved when who (or whoever) gets to press a red button on the head villain's dash which reads "my evil universe-transforming plan into explodey ruins"
(does the book use the term "mutiverse"? it's not wrong exactly but i was wincing every time azrael said it)
one ep to go
― mark s, Thursday, 5 January 2023 11:21 (one year ago) link
Of what I remember, Asriel & Mrs Coulter's motives get increasingly confusing in the last book, like they're two characters from an old Gossip Girl episode whose motivations change on a dime, just because plot
― Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 5 January 2023 13:48 (one year ago) link
in that case -- as my memory of the book is v spotty (i suspect bcz flaws in book but also a long time since i read it) -- the TV show handles this with rather more clarity even when their motivation is intensely conflicted (towards lyra, towards one another). with her especially -- more thx to ruth wilson than philip pullman maybe? -- we have learned always to read everything she does thru a "things not as they seem" filter. metatron is amusingly rude abt her to her face ("you are a cess-pit of moral filth") but she is NOT AT ALL BOTHERED and her face just says "i know you are but what am i"
― mark s, Thursday, 5 January 2023 14:02 (one year ago) link
Really enjoyed the whole series of this. The Amber Spyglass was prob my least favourite of the books and I did wonder how some things could possibly work on screen, but they pulled it off. Both young leads loads better in the last season. Not a spoiler, but the visuals for the physical battle in heaven and plunging fall were absolutely stunning.
― that mustardless plate (Bill A), Thursday, 5 January 2023 17:00 (one year ago) link