why do people on ILM hate "live through this" ?

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I did a presentation on Kurt and Courtney in my last semester. All it basically revealed was that her dad irrefutably is an asshole, and Bloomfield is far from an objective documentarian, and more focused on himself than his own subjects (it ultimately became a documentation of Bloomfield vs. Ms Love, instead of going anywhere deeper than rumorville).

-- Vic (filmclasse...), September 1st, 2004.

You had to do a presentation on the film to get that across?

Anyway, as for my two cents worth: I've always been indifferent towards Hole/Courtney Love. I don't have that scarily irrational hatred that some people seem to have of her. She's written some good songs ("Violet" and "Doll Parts" especially). But I dunno, she never made much of an impression on me.

The whole Cobain wrote LTT thing is bullshit. Any similarity between Hole and Nirvana prolly comes from them working in roughly similar styles of music and the fact of Cobain and Love being married. It's well-known that they influenced each other's writing, but that doesn't equal cobain writing hole's album.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:05 (nineteen years ago) link

Imagine if all musicians NEVER EVER erred in drawing "too much attention to themselves", We might have 50% less music in the world. Let's let the performers perform and not spit too much bile if they cross the line.

We creepy people typing away are far from the brain of a rock-star, I'm sorry to say this but I must. vive la difference

― Thea (Thea), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:06 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, I have my creepy moments, I shouldnt' judge anyone else of course

― Thea (Thea), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:06 (nineteen years ago) link

Good lord, man, Thriller over most anything anywhere anytime.

Oh for cryin' out loud, Fuck Michael Jackson!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:11 (nineteen years ago) link

biliousness

― Thea (Thea), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Sorry, Alex, I ain't jacking in some of the best music memories ever I had while growing up.

Thea isn't creepy or bilious. Sure, she hangs around in belfreys and keeps talking about the blood of the living, but who doesn't?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:13 (nineteen years ago) link

>Any similarity between Hole and Nirvana prolly comes from them working in roughly similar styles of music and the fact of Cobain and Love being married.<

I wonder if they combined their album collections? Or kept them in separate rooms. (Kurt's was more indie '80s pigfuck and Courtney's more major-label '80s modern rock, from what little I've read. I bet Curt would be real pissed if Courtney mis-filed his Flipper album!)

― chuck, Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Ned you shouldn't apologize for that last. That's like dropping a daisy into a vat of lye.

― Thea (Thea), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:19 (nineteen years ago) link

Propping up Courtney as a feminist icon doesn't work at all (self-destructive behaviour is by definition not the most constructive response to patriarchy), but I love how the moment anyone mentions gender as a factor it's suddenly like "OH SO NOW SHE'S A FEMINIST ICON IS SHE!??!" Sophisticated (or even basic) understanding of gender politcs to thread.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 2 September 2004 00:27 (nineteen years ago) link

I haven't read this thread, but I just want to say that I love 'Live Through This'. Even though I don't own it. I used to own it, but I lost it. I haven't bothered to buy it again since, mainly cuz I can't seem to find it at stores. (That's the kinda place I live in.)

People probably hate it cuz they hate Courtney, cuz...she could be a cunt sometimes.

― Nowell, Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:05 (nineteen years ago) link

is "pretty on the inside" any good?

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:09 (nineteen years ago) link

No.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Never heard it. I doubt it.
I heard that song "Teenage Whore" is good though.
Girls were very angry back then.

― Nowell, Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh for cryin' out loud, Fuck Michael Jackson!

For once in this thread I'm in agreement with Alex

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Malibu is a catchy little tune, but I wouldn't like it half as much without the ugly undercurrent she, herself gives to it. No use for the rest though.

― Kim (Kim), Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:47 (nineteen years ago) link

"She Walks On Me" is one of my favorites.

This is kinda embarrassing, but when I first heard her sing that line in "Asking for It" - "Live through this and I swear that I would die for you," or something like that - I actually cried.

"Doll Parts" is also excellent. Heartbreaking, too.

― Nowell, Thursday, 2 September 2004 01:54 (nineteen years ago) link

I love love love "Heaven Tonight", that Primitives/Beatlesy/Altered Images sound, those horsey imagery--it just sends me! I can't believe they never released it as a single. And "Awful" is such a funny/sad song about that whole scene--"I was punk! Now I'm just stupid! I'm so awful!" I'm surprised her detractors don't at least like that one.

I hate the corny Chinatown/LA dystopia images on the cover and the insert, although the nod to the cover of the Gun Club's Miami is sort of nice.

Tim Finney--sorry I missed your comments about Eric Erlandson just three posts above mine. I wonder if he's retired? He used to be a real man-about-town, EfH, but I rarely see him out anymore. Not that I get out much, though.

― Arthur (Arthur), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:02 (nineteen years ago) link

ah, I was hoping Nowell would get in on this thread.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:07 (nineteen years ago) link

AaronHz - can I call you Aaron? - I knew you'd say something patronizing like that. NOT THAT I CARE.

― Nowell, Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:09 (nineteen years ago) link

ah, I was hoping Nowell would get in on this thread.

how is this a patronizing statement?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:12 (nineteen years ago) link

It just is.

Wait, am I using the word "patronizing" correctly?

(Also, I'm leaving in less than twenty minutes.)

― Nowell, Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:14 (nineteen years ago) link

no you misunderstand me.
I meant that you're someone young enough to genuinely like Hole without feeling the need to try to justify it to us bunch of snobs with a lot of nonsense.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:23 (nineteen years ago) link

But why do you wanna be a snob? Snobs suck. I listen to lame shit, and I don't really care what anyone thinks.

― Nowell, Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Which is exactly why I was hoping you would get in on this thread.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Mm-hmm.

Dammit, I know I'm gonna have to leave any minute now...

― Nowell, Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:32 (nineteen years ago) link

listening to LTT for the first time in a while, inspired by this thread...it really does hold up well, especially relative to 90's alt-rock in general (which for me always skewed more toward Pearl Jam than Nirvana anyway). "Miss World" has really grown on me over the years, I love the way it build to the first chorus.

― Al (sitcom), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:46 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't know if I'd vote for it, but I'd consider nominating it for the 90's poll if it hasn't been already.

― Al (sitcom), Thursday, 2 September 2004 02:47 (nineteen years ago) link

i don't like courtney love very much because she wasted so much energy slagging off riot grrrl, its so backward! and this slagging-off is all over live through this. but i'm going to be perfectly honest and say right here that if i'd never heard hole i might never have found out about riot grrrl. but thats not all live through this means to me - the songs are great, they rock hard and courtney's voice is so blisteringly fantastically raw. i really need to get my own copy.

courtney introduced to me the idea that i could be a rock bitch, and the riot grrrls drove it home. i haven't heard any other hole albums. i had the misfortune of hearing "mono" recently and found it boring and lifeless.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:23 (nineteen years ago) link

>I heard that song "Teenage Whore" is good though.
Girls were very angry back then. <

This is my favorite comment on this entire thread, I think!

― chuck, Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, I loved that one too, Chuck.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 2 September 2004 17:05 (nineteen years ago) link

what's interesting, is that the songs that everyone credits kurt cobain with writing were at least partially formed before they met."violet" and "doll parts" were both recorded at maida vale for john peel in 1991, and unless one of the first things cobain did when he met courtney was to write her a couple of singles, whilst also writing "nevermind" , i don't really think it seems awfully plausible. just a thought.

― laura joyce (snow white), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 13:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Xpost

What's so great about what I said?

― Nowell, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 19:12 (nineteen years ago) link

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