generation limbo: 20-somethings today, debt, unemployment, the questionable value of a college education

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one hopes they like it, if they're doing PhDs xp

whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:16 (seven years ago) link

that was a p shitty post i dont know why im so sour this morning

i have lots of advanced opinions abt 'practical' majors but it mostly just boils down to the fact that a lot less ppl should be going to university than currently do

so solaris (Lamp), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:17 (seven years ago) link

i'm doing a masters in critical theory

plax (ico), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:19 (seven years ago) link

I think this thread more or less agrees with you on that last point. xp

plax I hope you aren't paying money for that

whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:20 (seven years ago) link

unless you are like wealthy or whatever in which case neat

whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:20 (seven years ago) link

anything that can be described as "practical" is stupid

max, Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:20 (seven years ago) link

i'm not a very practical person

plax (ico), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:21 (seven years ago) link

yeah, when I become a computer science professor six or seven years from now my goal will be to make computer science departments less practical

whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:21 (seven years ago) link

ppl can learn to program on their own time, it's pretty difficult to teach people to be good programmers in a classroom anyway

whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:22 (seven years ago) link

practical degrees are p funny partly because theyre so completely impractical, ppl are wasting so much time and money getting a degree that teaches them nothing and 'signals' increasingly less. mostly ppl should just work admin or entry level positions for a couple of years and take w/e professional certification courses theyre going to have to take anyway at night and both they and employers wld be better off blah blah blah work farms in new hampshire

i mean i think education is p fantastic but what if most ppl dont really want to learn about greek history or genetics or chaucer they just want a job that earns them some money

so solaris (Lamp), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:46 (seven years ago) link

kinda feel like everybody should just major in a science, at worse you become a lab tech and make 40k

ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:47 (seven years ago) link

not even true for lots of science majors tho

iatee, Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:51 (seven years ago) link

that's true, everybody should just major in biology or biotech or bioinformatics

ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:52 (seven years ago) link

the bigger problem is that we actually do need a certain amount of people to do generic white collar jobs, a 'liberal arts education' is prob as good a preparation as you're gonna get (powerpoint on hegel -> powerpoint on car insurance companies)

but it's unclear how many people and even more unclear how many people 10 years from now and really hard to imagine that this is some dynamic situation where you can expect most people to look at the macro picture and be like "oh clearly we need X more people in this field" - you can plan ahead w/ some things but right now you're asking 18 y/os to make 6 figure investments in a super complicated market. I'm not sure what the answer is beyond 'college needs to be cheaper'.

iatee, Sunday, 6 November 2011 20:03 (seven years ago) link

I majored in communication because I thought it was the same thing as communications, but it's not, so I switched to "Journalism and Media Studies" which wound up JUST being journalism, and not even modern tech-centric journalism but like entire classes on how to report news for radio and stuff like that. So now I have a journalism degree. I still am trying to work out how I wound up with a journalism degree.

Parker Posey as herself dancing to house music in NYC in 1995 (Stevie D(eux)), Sunday, 6 November 2011 20:06 (seven years ago) link

'this person is demonstrating that they think more like me and picked a *practical* major* because we are *practical* people

I was a comp sci major dropout and lol @ the immense mutual disdain between the theoretical comp sci/maths+CS people and the Business & IT majors

how do i shot slime mould voltron form (a passing spacecadet), Sunday, 6 November 2011 20:32 (seven years ago) link

the bigger problem is that we actually do need a certain amount of people to do generic white collar jobs, a 'liberal arts education' is prob as good a preparation as you're gonna get (powerpoint on hegel -> powerpoint on car insurance companies)

sure, except that most white collar jobs dont need a liberal arts education at all, and shouldnt require one, and a good liberal arts education probably shouldnt be abt powerpoint

so solaris (Lamp), Sunday, 6 November 2011 20:37 (seven years ago) link

xp lol, i thought it was just me (another cs dropout)

Nhex, Sunday, 6 November 2011 20:40 (seven years ago) link

ya I agree w/ all of that but I think our culture is at a point where it'd be pretty hard to convince people (esp since the people 'in charge' almost all went to college) otherwise. instead things are going in the opposite direction even, w/ fast food places weeding people out if they don't have a college degree.

also our unreliable hs education system makes a college degree that much more insurance that you have rudimentary math and writing skills.

xp

iatee, Sunday, 6 November 2011 20:43 (seven years ago) link

and even then...

Nhex, Monday, 7 November 2011 00:10 (seven years ago) link

yeah, when I become a computer science professor six or seven years from now my goal will be to make computer science departments less practical

― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Sunday, November 6, 2011 7:21 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

<3

new rap guy (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 7 November 2011 05:55 (seven years ago) link

our computer science department is a total circus sideshow imo - all sorts of obnoxious industry trendhopping going on

fill up ass of emoticon fart (crüt), Monday, 7 November 2011 06:08 (seven years ago) link

your <3s mean the world to me hoos; if you can send them along also to the graduate admissions committees of the schools I'm applying to…

whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Monday, 7 November 2011 08:03 (seven years ago) link

yeah I could go off on a huge tear about computer science's role/function/mission in the academy but I won't

whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Monday, 7 November 2011 08:03 (seven years ago) link

http://graphicsweb.wsj.com/documents/NILF1111/#term=

J0rdan S., Monday, 7 November 2011 16:46 (seven years ago) link

That table comes from this:

http://cew.georgetown.edu/whatsitworth/

Finding - if you want to be comfortable study engineering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgzl1Sai4Y0

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 7 November 2011 16:55 (seven years ago) link

I think the CS program at my university now has a software engineering track that is more focused on the methodology and practice of programming. The long, math-and-logic proof classes are still there, but as a core.

mh, Monday, 7 November 2011 17:02 (seven years ago) link

engineering is prob the safest bet for a lot of people individually but 'everyone becomes engineers' is not really a solution for our bigger unemployment problems. it's not like there are a million open engineer positions going unfilled - I know some people who graduated from good engineering programs and are pretty underemployed.

iatee, Monday, 7 November 2011 17:06 (seven years ago) link

what if they create an organic computer, ya'll silicon lightweight type engineers won't be sitting so high huh

ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Monday, 7 November 2011 17:11 (seven years ago) link

Run it on carrots and parsnips!!!!!!

bunnicula, Monday, 7 November 2011 17:12 (seven years ago) link

free range motherboards

new rap guy (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 7 November 2011 17:13 (seven years ago) link

fwiw, a friend works at John Deere and a lot of his engineer colleagues are Indian dudes who went to college in the US

mh, Monday, 7 November 2011 17:15 (seven years ago) link

My girlfriends brother graduated with an engineering degree in may and now has a job where he is being paid me and my girlfriends combined salary. Otoh his job sounds so boring.

Not really any reason for this post other than my own jealousy

max, Monday, 7 November 2011 17:28 (seven years ago) link

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/business/2011/11/why-kids-are-all-broke/44664/

generational warfare c/d

will it 'catch on'

iatee, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 01:34 (seven years ago) link

I mean beyond the stuff already done by congress on a regular basis

iatee, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 01:34 (seven years ago) link

with respect to those present i have been saying since i was 16 that the boomers left us fucked

new rap guy (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 8 November 2011 04:43 (seven years ago) link

some suggestions re student debt via mike konczal

http://rortybomb.wordpress.com/2011/11/07/two-steps-towards-tackling-our-current-student-loan-problems/

max, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 15:48 (seven years ago) link

that's a good article

I like the framing of 'public option' tho irl we're drifting away from that instead if coming closer to having a feasible 'public option'. it's more complicated because education is more of an investment than health care. but it's a personal investment *and* a social investment and right now we're failing at funding the 2nd part.

iatee, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 16:23 (seven years ago) link

yeah i liked that framing too. the demise of the public university is a really bad thing for everyone, private schools and their students as much as anyone, in particular w/r/t controlling costs.

heres a longer thing about "public options" that konczal has linked to before

http://slackwire.blogspot.com/2010/09/public-options-general-case.html

max, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 16:38 (seven years ago) link

yeah there's a never ending price spiral atm w/ public universities capable of justifying any price increase - as long as they remain cheaper than private schools they're 'the bargain' and private schools operating w/ their own weird games - super 'competitive' w/r/t everything but price (even that isn't *always* true, which is why this is a weird market)

iatee, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 16:58 (seven years ago) link

yeah shoulda read that first looks like he's saying that and more

iatee, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 17:19 (seven years ago) link

One of the two who is still in engineering plans to work in finance after graduation.

lol

ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Tuesday, 8 November 2011 18:03 (seven years ago) link

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/the-tyranny-of-meritocracy/248061/

what is she saying here? my brain is too tired to parse this

ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Tuesday, 8 November 2011 18:10 (seven years ago) link

oh who gives a fuck

goole, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 18:15 (seven years ago) link

i literally read that URL and went "pffffffffffft" at my desk

what's happening to our based god??? (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 8 November 2011 19:24 (seven years ago) link

key graf

This overlooks a more important question, which is why the system went wrong. Don't tell me it got hostage to the wrong ideology--tell me why all those professors we paid millions of dollars to study economics couldn't provide a convincing rebuttal to that ideology in advance of the crash. Don't tell me that regulators were stupid or bankers got greedy until you first explain to me why tens of thousands of very well educated people, most of them graduates of colleges and professional schools that had aggressively winnowed them based on intelligence, barely outperformed a bunch of upstart micks, third-generation coupon-clipping WASP dimwits, and central bankers who still worshipped the barbarous relic of the gold standard?

what's happening to our based god??? (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 8 November 2011 19:26 (seven years ago) link

yikes

ah, how quaint (Matt P), Tuesday, 8 November 2011 19:27 (seven years ago) link

I'm not sure I'm really following her point.

pass the duchy pon the left hand side (musical duke) (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 8 November 2011 19:41 (seven years ago) link

i think she's saying "the problem is the meritocracy, cause clearly it fucked us just as badly as the robber barons"?

what's happening to our based god??? (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 8 November 2011 19:53 (seven years ago) link


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