craftsmanship, consumerism, virtue, privilege, and quality

sure - you can't put all that IP in the country and not expect them to copy it or reverse-engineer it!

Guys this is a great thread but I want you all to watch this for a few minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfN4_52loC4

this is really easy to run into if you buy liquor these days--microdistilleries are popping up all over the place and using words like "local" "artisinal" and "craft" and they pretty much ignore some basic facts of the beverage alcohol industry (liquor branch in particular), such as 1) distilling is really hard; 2) once you can do it it's really easy to do large-scale; 3) market competition and consumer choice have resulted in an environment where 95% of midshelf and higher products are quite high-quality.

I think the term "local" stands a bit apart from "artisinal" and "craft". The latter two terms can sometimes just be clever marketing, or a misleading implication of quality, but if we're talking about a locally distilled product made with locally-sourced ingredients, that's a bit different. Some people are happy to pay a bit more for something if they're supporting a local business. I think the increased interest in supporting small/local/craft businesses is partly due to a desire to live in a more self-sustaining, neighborhood sort of economy, where we can grow and make and buy a lot of the things we need/want without the raw ingredients, processed components, and finished products having to be shipped halfway across the world three different times.

And if you buy that locally distilled liquor, you're probably supporting several local businesses, not just one. There's the distiller, the farmer, the maltster, the barrelmaker, the local shops that proudly carry the local product- I could go on and on. These community businesses all depend on each other, (hopefully) treat each other well, and share in the rewards of the enterprise.

And then of course there's the idea that you're giving your money to a known entity, a person, and not some shadowy corporation using unfair business practices, and paying their employees the bare minimum, and making horrific political contributions, etc. This is of course a sweeping generalization but that's part of the mindset at play here, I think.

the local distiller could still be getting all his grain from global sources, you don't know that

Right but I was talking specifically about "a locally distilled product made with locally-sourced ingredients."

artisanal moonshine

My point was that the decision of whether to support a local distiller is not solely based on whether the midshelf mass-produced product is of equal quality.

i sold a book on canning/preserving and a how-to moonshine book to a dude last week. the revolution will be pickled.

feel like a lot of these products' 'rustic' quality is more like a 'hey mommy look what I made in arts and crafts today!' quality

this is maybe only tangentially related to this thread but i thought it was interesting--boutique brooklyn chocolatiers get a shipment of cocoa beans by sail

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303714704576385951539124310.html

Right but I was talking specifically about "a locally distilled product made with locally-sourced ingredients."

― epistantophus, Friday, November 4, 2011 8:37 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark

ime "locally-sourced ingredients" is a huge issue here. there are some microdistilleries that claim to use locally-sourced grains but they only do for a fraction of their output, with the rest being the same bulk grains that everyone buys. similarly, i'd be willing to wager that a lot of these guys use the same handful of sources for malt and barrels.

from an environmental standpoint local is not necessarily better. depends on the situation but mass production + shipping stuff via enormous container ships can actually have a lower overall footprint.

but if we assume people are ~buying less stuff~ then that effect can make up for it I guess.

you have to be careful with some of these young hip dudes making axes because a lot of them went to progressive schools that stressed "process" over "product". just watch where you swing that axe is all i'm saying.

Insert Pink Floyd img joke here.

xxxxxp True, the "local" tag can be used misleadingly as well, I suppose. But, at least in my area, there's been an explosion of new, local grain farms, hop farms, and even maltsters in the past few years. I think that as we see more and more of these "support" businesses open on the small/independent/local/community scale, the local distillers, brewers, etc. will have more options for sourcing their ingredients locally without breaking the bank. Because, in the end, why start a small, local business if you're not going to support other small, local businesses in doing so? And I guess that's about all I'm going to say on the subject, because I'm getting really sick of writing the word "local". Somebody get me a thesaurus.

to make money, tbh

"regionally indigenous"

xxxxxp True, the "local" tag can be used misleadingly as well, I suppose. But, at least in my area, there's been an explosion of new, local grain farms, hop farms, and even maltsters in the past few years. I think that as we see more and more of these "support" businesses open on the small/independent/local/community scale, the local distillers, brewers, etc. will have more options for sourcing their ingredients locally without breaking the bank. Because, in the end, why start a small, local business if you're not going to support other small, local businesses in doing so? And I guess that's about all I'm going to say on the subject, because I'm getting really sick of writing the word "local". Somebody get me a thesaurus.

― epistantophus, Friday, November 4, 2011 9:20 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah i mean there is reason for cautious optimism in this space due to some of the things you point out; it's just not quite there yet imo.

if everyone that needs an axe were to buy their axe at their local artizan axemaster and that axe were the only axe they'd ever need, how long could that local axemaster earn a living before he'd run out of customers

he'd need to charge quite a high price, that axemaster, tbh

or else he'd need to diversify his product range to include other cutting & chopping tools

people used to make money by selling things and then repairing those things when they needed repairing. so maybe the axe guy could make extra axe bucks by sharpening your axe for you.

even so, realistically speaking he'd be working with a very limited demand pool

door to door knife sharpening. when are the kids gonna get on that old job.

if everyone that needs an axe were to buy their axe at their local artizan axemaster and that axe were the only axe they'd ever need, how long could that local axemaster earn a living before he'd run out of customers

That's why business for small-town artisans is so different when people can order this stuff online.

ok, so we have a blacksmith in the village, allowing for sharpening, grinding, etc. Sustainable as a local enterprise?

darning socks. my mom used to do that! she never had to buy socks. probably put a ton of sock retailers out of business near us.

scott: we still had 'tinkers' doing that and pot mending etc up to maybe two generations ago, but there's reasons the door-to-door tooling trade died out

i think we're heading into m night shyamalan's 'the village' with this.

wear jeans until they have holes. patch holes. when holes no longer patchable make into shorts. when too ripped up as shorts cut into rags and use as rags. when too raggy sew into quilt. we were like the indians and their damn beefalos.

rags-quilt is a bit of a manky progression tbh

xxp Yes, now people buy cheap things, packaged in the least recyclable materials possible, and then throw them away when they wear out. Thanks, free market!

okay maybe not a quilt. cut into strips and, uh, hook a rug or something. that's what grandma was good for.

Although the "used-rag quilt" does not sound appealing. xp haha

i still have a little pillow made out of a pair of my jeans from when i was a kid. lovely little pillow.

POT MENDING, now there's something you don't hear about. How do metal pots need mending?? Who wears a whole in the bottom of a cook pot? Maybe I'm taking this too literally?

Easy on the crazy quilts, there, you disgusting savages. Every worn out garment has some part that's still good. Things wear out where you do the work.

cf http://joyfulhomaker.com/RagCoatbook.jpg

<3 <3 Appalachia

I always wondered that too; maybe handles break off or something?

i'd go shorts-rags-call it a day

Course, once upon a time there'd a bin a local rag n bone man but now it's just hipsters traipsing around in a $100k handmade oak wagon looking for last year's abercrombie scarves to weave into neil gaiman's next graphic novel masterpiece

i still have some of my grandparents pots and pans. some of them must be 60 years old or more.

maybe pots are just better-made or modern cooking appliances are easier on the potarse or maybe we microwave everything, myriad causes imo

Well you can't "mend" cast iron, it has to be cast. So at the most, we'd be talking about...tin?

i use a cast iron pan for a lot of the cooking i do and i can't imagine that i'll ever need another one in my lifetime. i have two actually. one big and one small. same with the big stew pot that i use. it should last forever. that's, like, 60% of my cooking materials right there. pots for boiling though yeah the handle problem.

cast iron gets cast in the bin when it breaks iirc.

Yes, exactly. So what could a pot mender be mending? Steel? I don't know. Tin, for sure. In fact isn't that where the word "tinker" comes from, now that I think of it?

Copper pots were a thing once, right? Nowadays they are lined or clad to avoid copper poisoning.

Copper pots are awesome but expensive as hell.

Also I agree (to an extent) with the OP characterizing a lot of artisinal products as Veblen goods. There is definitely a degree of conspicuous consumption going on there. The more expensive, the better! In the old days, it was exotic esoteria from faraway lands. Today it's handmade, artisan goods from the local craft workshop. As much as I love to support local business, it bugs me when this stuff is outrageously overpriced and marketed toward the affluent so they can be all bohemian and rustic in front of their peers.

*esoterica