HIS DARK MATERIALS

Director's cut needed

All you folks who LOVE the books (like me) might want to read the best (adult) sci/fantasy series of all time The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe. Yes, it's better than Tolkien or Pullman or Herbert. Thank me later.

Holy shit... I think I read that...

Wolfe's pretty damn great, no question.

i liked those gene wolfe books a lot. they were pretty weird. i never read past the first 4, i think there were more.

this movie had its heart in the right place but still managed to be almost completely terrible.

SPOILAZ!

milo upthread OTM -- the plottier adventure parts of the story were by far the most intoxicating parts of the trilogy (everything about <i>Golden Compass</i>, when Will and Lyra recover the alethiometer in <i>Subtle Knife</i> -- awesomes!), and while I have to admire the ballsiness of the its anti-church bias, it stacks the deck too neatly against religion -- curious, since the bad guy(s) in the work that inspired HDM is extremely morally equivocal. If I had to identify a shark-jumping point, it was two-thirds of the way through <i>Subtle Knife</i>, when the story just became Will & Lyra walking forever, and Will losing blood.

And OTM x 1000000 about Lyra gradually transforming into a weepy & clutchy broad after <i>TGS</i>, very dispiriting since she started out as such a compelling spitfire in vol. 1. Also very ;_; that from vol. 2 on, she barely got to lie, and when she did, she was immediately punished for it.

Totally didn't realize that the decrepit angel getting eated by ghasts was the Authority until I read this very thread! I ar dum!

I'm on my second read through of these, this time aloud to my son. He's entranced by them; I'd wondered if he was too young (he's 8, but he's kind of a mature 8), but we'd already finished all the Harry Potters and needed to move on to something else. Haven't let him watch the disappointing film yet, maybe I won't.

BBC TV adaptation!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2015/his-dark-materials

Exciting.

nice, I hope there's an opportunity to see these in the US

I re-read these over the summer, they were still great despite bogging down a bit in book 3

Could be good, the beeb have been doing well with literary adaptations of late.

On a similar note, is their version of Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell worth a watch?

thank good, the film was a botched opportunity.

Anyone check out The Book Of Dust: La Belle Sauvage yet?

i finished last night and I didn't fall head over heels in love with it like I did Northern Lights, but it was engrossing, especially towards the end. Malcolm was always an interesting character to follow, even if his adventures were a bit repetitive until the flood came. Pullman really knows how to capture the thoughts, languages, and feelings of a kid, even after all these years. The image of creeping religious authoritarianism in schools really resonated with me given current events. It was cool to see younger versions of characters like Asriel and Mrs. Coulter, and seeing how their characterizations conflicted with the characters we saw in HDM. No spoilers, but I think if the old trilogy was about exploring the magic of the North and traveling to other worlds, the new one will focus on the magic that governs Oxford and Britain, along with the continuing fight for intellectual liberty in Lyra's world.

I read a couple weeks ago, was totally absorbed in it though looking back at it the pacing is super weird and Malcolm’s back-and-forth spy adventures are pretty repetitive. Not as great as Northern Lights but he’s still excellent at describing people discovering the world around them. Was caught off-guard by the more mythical elements, fairy food and so forth - they didn’t seem as well integrated as the armored bears and witches in the original trilogy; and there’s something v ugly implied near the end that seems to be weirdly not followed up on. Thought it was funny how much Pullman mentions characters needing to pee, change diapers, etc. But it’s great immersing oneself back into that world, I’ll def read the next one.

Was caught off-guard by the more mythical elements, fairy food and so forth - they didn’t seem as well integrated as the armored bears and witches in the original trilogy

It was a more "realistic" book overall than either of the first three--despite the presence of daemons, it felt more speculative than fantasy for about the first 2/3s of the book. I think part of the reason the tone was strange was just because Malcolm was the single most unflappable 11-year-old anyone has ever met. He took every single mythical interaction in stride and somehow always knew exactly what to do. That was true of Lyra in the original books, but it was always implied that she was a girl of extraordinary talents, while Malcolm seemed to be clever, but more ordinary.

Still, looking forward to the next book

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yuIE1OYnVI

Yes!

... unless they mess up the anti-religion stuff. Then I meant No!

Has anyone read The Secret Commonwealth yet? I have one chapter to go and I think it's Pullman's best yet. I really enjoyed La Belle Sauvage, but this is next level. I've found some of it very emotionally difficult to deal with.

I didn't even realize it was out until I went and explicitly looked it up. Just got it yesterday, looking forward to it.

Just read it. Really liked most of the travel narrative and think he's overall done a very good job of writing Lyra as a 20-year-old with a lot of traumatic experiences in her past. I didn't buy the business about the book, though - we're told that it's affected her thinking and personality but I don't see any actual evidence of it.

I thought of the book(s) as - not quite maguffins, but almost the opposite of maguffins? Like Lyra had changed for a multitude of reasons - not least separation from Pan and the trauma thereof - plus just general ageing and social changes, and the book(s) were almost scapegoats, things that Pan had picked up on and fixated about as being the causes, whereas reading them and identifying with them was more of a symptom of the general direction she was heading in. Like they described her condition rather than causing it.

I think the book Pan hates is akin to Jordan Peterson’s type of reductive, sneering faux-intellectualist blather. Lyra’s acceptance of it is especially galling to her daemon because she, uniquely, has proof of the depth of the Secret Commonwealth due to her childhood experience. Also, I’m a little squicked by Malcolm’s infatuation with her.

Whoa, I had no idea that Pullman extended the HDM stories! Do I need to read the other ones before I get started on the new trilogy?

Probably yes.

I’d read in chronological order? Belle Sauvage, OT, Secret Commonwealth, next one?

I think I’d choose publication order. A lot is revealed about how lyra’s world works in the original trilogy that isn’t explained in La Belle Sauvage.

yeah I think reading La Belle Sauvage first would be confusing.

Might do for a reread of the OT then, it's been a while.

Working my way through commonwealth and it’s really engaging so far. Only on chapter 8 or so, but it’s hitting me hard already.

The human/daemon relationship is endlessly fascinating, honestly, I could read an encyclopedia about it if Pullman we’re willing to write it lol

So, who watched episode one?

Thoughts?

Halfway through. It's pretty good, feels like it's just not for me though.

I don't really get the plot, or why I would care about any of the characters. The anti-religious stuff is very obvious, though.

Seems reasonably true to the book but I haven't read it in 10 years or something.
Trying to work out what falls within this series.
Seeing the summary on some tv listing as 2 children travel through multiple dimensions or some similar paraphrase. & I thought they didn't before the 2nd book.

Want to read the new books.

Like the look of the series anyway. Though somewhat jarred by the vehicle used to transport baby Lyra at the start seemed to be a 50s or 60s looking helicopter after which they jump forward 12 years to airships. I thought they basically had 30s level technology on the starting world if that from what I remembered from the books.

"I don't really get the plot, or why I would care about any of the characters." I take it you haven't read the books then?

No one is particularly likable aside from Lyra.

I got irrationally annoyed whenever I couldn’t see a character’s daemon. I mean sure it could’ve been hiding in a pocket or something, but idk, Pullman always goes out of his way to let us know what form a character’s daemon takes—it’s a literal window into their souls

After one episode there's either not much plot, or else fucking loads - someone is stealing children; this guy has discovered 'dust'; dust lets you see alternate dimensions; girl is somehow implicated and starts on a journey.

Not seeing everyone's daemon perturbed me slightly too, but only slightly. There's a lot in the latest book about people who don't have daemons, and how you can just tell they don't have one even if it's not visibly apparent, the inference from which I took was that a lot of people's are small animals that sit in pockets a lot of the time, so I wasn't too fussed.

Pullman's been involved as executive producer hasn't he, and has certainly given full blessing to this version, so the helicopter (gyropter!) intrigued me rather than seeming anachronistic. I don't think it's as simple as them having pretty much 1930s technology - they've obviously just got different levels of tech in all sorts of different directions. Some of it magic!

I thought it was pretty good. Lyra a lot posher than I imagined her, but I guess she did grow up in an Oxford college! The actress' performance is a little odd, but maybe she'll grow on me. Rest of the cast and design and pacing seemed decent.

My partner who's never read the books loved it, so that's a good sign.

Trying to work out what falls within this series.

Pretty sure it'll just be book 1, particularly as casting for Will hasn't been announced.

No one is particularly likable aside from Lyra.

Not sure this is true? Been a decade since I read them, but Will and Lee Scoresby spring to mind.

I was thinking the actress was teh same girl as Eleven from Stranger tHings when i first saw her face in publicity material.
Is that just a type for this year or something.
Seemed like years ago you would have a lot of somewhat lookalike actresses turning up in films at the same time following the appearance of an actress that was deemed somewhat iconic or hip for that year who they semi resembled. Like Faye Dunaway being followed by clones or whatever.

The girl is Wolverine.

hugh jackman is such a chameleon

a lot of people's are small animals that sit in pockets a lot of the time, so I wasn't too fussed.

yes i thought of this too. but there should be more dogs, dammit!

I liked it. I'm glad it steered clear of all-out exposition but I did have to stop and explain a couple of things to my kids (13 & 11). It generally looked great with a couple of bits of old school Saturday evening telly thrown in, but that's fine.

I tried watching the film before and I don't think I got much farther than Lyra leaving with Mrs. Coulter, or if I did I don't remember. This is already much better IMO.

the only thing the film has over the series so far is that Nicole Kidman was pretty much a quintessential Coulter.

Yeah thought she was more of a siren or whatever.
This one might be ok but I think I have her in the back of my mind.

I quite like Ruth Wilson and her weird mouth even if I do keep expecting her to stab someone in the neck any moment.

Yeah I meran she could be great if I didn't already have an image of the previous actress. May be something I can overcome and will be something that people who didn't see the film won't have to deal with.

Did they start the film thinking they were going to do other parts of the trilogy then not do well at the box office or something?

Also the actor playing Roger has a small part in The Aeronauts. Liked that film a bit not sure how many people would.