all college students should just drop out and start multi-billion dollar computer companies - y/n
― iatee, Sunday, 23 October 2011 22:17 (eight years ago) link
Well, one thing that colleges can teach is critical thinking, which might have been of some help to the author of that strange piece. I think I expect too much out of the New York Times these days.
Not a shock, the author is one of those bizarro "business gurus". http://www.powerofeyecontact.com/
― Spectrum, Sunday, 23 October 2011 23:04 (eight years ago) link
― medium rear (silby), Sunday, 23 October 2011 23:08 (eight years ago) link
If the availability of student loans contracts, or if students are less willing to take those loans, I would guess the non-prestige big private unis will be taking an enrollment hit, if they don't differentiate their environments from public schools. This is just a random thought I had on this topic he other day.
Also occurs to me that plenty of places likely won't even do something to lower the nominal tuition price. As long as there's still at least one student who can afford full pay, they will cheerfully extract it from them, even if the average discount rate goes up.
― medium rear (silby), Sunday, 23 October 2011 23:14 (eight years ago) link
yeah I think non-prestige private unis are gonna be at the forefront of the crisis, cause they've always been offering a luxury product - the idea that they're offering a luxury product (rather than a 'better investment') is finally reaching the mainstream.
lowering tuition is difficult when you have fixed costs dependent on that tuition, but there are only so many rich people interested in non-prestige private unis in the country.
― iatee, Sunday, 23 October 2011 23:29 (eight years ago) link
^ complicating factors for those schools. people will always secretly believe that more expensive things are better and the race for that elusive prestige signal is expensive.
― iatee, Sunday, 23 October 2011 23:35 (eight years ago) link
schools should charge a sliding tuition based on their national rankings
― dayo, Sunday, 23 October 2011 23:45 (eight years ago) link
"non-prestige private unis" are prob gonna take a big hit---glad I don't work for one---unless they can get kids jobs that pay better than state unis, or if the bad guys kill our public unis.
― Euler, Sunday, 23 October 2011 23:59 (eight years ago) link
the prob is public unis are gonna have increasing enrollment regardless in the future as they're increasingly considered 'the pragmatic decision' - so they can be defunded again and again before they'll actually start losing students.
― iatee, Monday, 24 October 2011 00:02 (eight years ago) link
that's true but there's a lower bound on how defunded they can get (we're playing with that already)
― Euler, Monday, 24 October 2011 01:52 (eight years ago) link
― turkey in the straw (x2) (remy bean), Monday, 24 October 2011 21:54 (eight years ago) link
― iatee, Tuesday, 25 October 2011 01:02 (eight years ago) link
we were talking about migration in this thread?
― dayo, Friday, 28 October 2011 01:59 (eight years ago) link
RIP cooper union ;_;
― dayo, Tuesday, 1 November 2011 10:07 (eight years ago) link
founded in 1859 to provide free education for the working class
lol that game's been over for a while
― elan, Tuesday, 1 November 2011 14:03 (eight years ago) link
But here's a revenue idea: contract students out for arch/engineering jobs and make them work for free. Call it an internship.
― elan, Tuesday, 1 November 2011 14:06 (eight years ago) link
― iatee, Saturday, 5 November 2011 23:53 (eight years ago) link
Despite the grabby headline, that article at least calls out the writers of the myopic Jeremiads for what they are.
I need to learn more about this bit of data:
Their results are sobering. The Collegiate Learning Assessment reveals that some 45 percent of students in the sample had made effectively no progress in critical thinking, complex reasoning, and writing in their first two years. And a look at their academic experience helps to explain why. […] Half the students in the sample had not taken a course that required more than twenty pages of writing in the previous semester, while a third had not even taken a course that required as much as forty pages a week of reading. […] two points come through with striking clarity. First, traditional subjects and methods seem to retain their educational value. Nowadays the liberal arts attract a far smaller proportion of students than they did two generations ago. Still, those majoring in liberal arts fields—humanities and social sciences, natural sciences and mathematics—outperformed those studying business, communications, and other new, practical majors on the CLA..
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Sunday, 6 November 2011 02:37 (eight years ago) link
The goddamn liberal arts are still the foundation of our goddamn civic society, is what my takeaway is.
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Sunday, 6 November 2011 02:38 (eight years ago) link
My problem: I don't have a degree. In anything. I should get one so that I can go farther in society. I'd prefer to get something like General Studies or Liberal Arts, something that gives me a good background in life. I know that no one takes either one of those degrees seriously. What should I do?
Sorry to drag this off topic.
― Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Sunday, 6 November 2011 02:49 (eight years ago) link
my honest to god advice is to put a fake BA on your resume from somewhere inconspicuous and believable
― iatee, Sunday, 6 November 2011 02:52 (eight years ago) link
that said, I know your situation right now is kinda shitty and there are things to be said about actually learning shit for 4(+...) years. you should look into the very cheapest public university you can find (generally = 2 years at cc -> transfer). you'd qualify for pell grants and there are actually *tons* of scholarships out there in america, some of them are pretty obscure and few people apply to them.
student loans are a devil, but if you only took gov't loans and planned ahead to pay them back w/ IBR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_Based_Repayment) you could be alright even if you didn't find yourself in a fantastic situation after your degree. IBR is new and I think some people think it won't last forever.
but 'going to college' might actually be a decent way out of your life situation, come to think of it. the process more than the career options afterwards.
― iatee, Sunday, 6 November 2011 03:13 (eight years ago) link
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Saturday, November 5, 2011 10:37 PM Bookmark
This strikes me as a bit misleading though -- since when are "natural sciences" and "mathematics" considered part of the liberal arts? And since when is communications considered a "practical" major -- I always thought that was liberal arts lite.
― pass the duchy pon the left hand side (musical duke) (Hurting 2), Sunday, 6 November 2011 18:00 (eight years ago) link
"liberal arts" is just supposed to be "general knowledge"--science is a liberal art! "humanities" and "liberal arts" are not the same thing
― max, Sunday, 6 November 2011 18:05 (eight years ago) link
& ive always thought of communications as a practical major. its where ppl go to become like... ppl who work in "marketing."
― max, Sunday, 6 November 2011 18:08 (eight years ago) link
I've heard many people knocking college over the past few months (touring in a band in the southeast, so maybe it's a demographic thing). I knew an arts degree "wouldn't amount to anything" but went ahead and got my B.A. and I learned many wonderful things, had some inspirational teachers, got to study in Egypt, and in general had my worldview opened up. I wouldn't take any of that back. Plus, having a degree went good on my resume and no doubt helped me get some work.
I do think things are changing though, with student finance laws, with tuition rising and program cutbacks. Back when I was in school, I had HOPE cover tuition and got a couple grand per semester from the Pell Grant, so I could work part-time and still afford to go to school. And have the spare time needed for studies. I think if I ever go back, it's going to have to be in another country.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 6 November 2011 18:24 (eight years ago) link
I've always thought of communications as the sorority girl version of a business major (at least at my school...)...it's practical insomuch as it might signal to certain employers that you're someone who was more interested in getting a job than learning for the sake of learning, but at the same time it doesn't actually give you a real skill
― iatee, Sunday, 6 November 2011 18:44 (eight years ago) link
I don't think the people who give them jobs usually think that. They're probably communications, business or hospitality majors themselves, so they're not going to be snobs about it.
― bamcquern, Sunday, 6 November 2011 18:47 (eight years ago) link
totally, that's not their actual thought process, but there's still this unconscious signaling game going on. even if it's just 'this person is demonstrating that they think more like me and picked a *practical* major* because we are *practical* people'
― iatee, Sunday, 6 November 2011 18:56 (eight years ago) link
incidentally people getting business/communications/etc. degrees are probably a 'bigger part of the college bubble' (if we want to look at it like that) than humanities majors
― iatee, Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:04 (eight years ago) link
communications is a made-up major for girls who arent rich/hip enough to major in art history
― so solaris (Lamp), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:06 (eight years ago) link
what do we think about girls who major in psychology
― ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:13 (eight years ago) link
psych is the 'I like learning but I have absolutely no clue what I want to major in' major, tho I do know multiple girls who are now in psych phds so maybe they actually like it
― iatee, Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:14 (eight years ago) link
^^had a long conversation with an old friend who is in the midst of her psychology phd. pretty sure i made some cracks back in the day when she was an undergrad, but she's sure shown me.
― encarta it (Gukbe), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:16 (eight years ago) link
one hopes they like it, if they're doing PhDs xp
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:16 (eight years ago) link
that was a p shitty post i dont know why im so sour this morning
i have lots of advanced opinions abt 'practical' majors but it mostly just boils down to the fact that a lot less ppl should be going to university than currently do
― so solaris (Lamp), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:17 (eight years ago) link
i'm doing a masters in critical theory
― plax (ico), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:19 (eight years ago) link
I think this thread more or less agrees with you on that last point. xp
plax I hope you aren't paying money for that
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:20 (eight years ago) link
unless you are like wealthy or whatever in which case neat
anything that can be described as "practical" is stupid
― max, Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:20 (eight years ago) link
i'm not a very practical person
― plax (ico), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:21 (eight years ago) link
yeah, when I become a computer science professor six or seven years from now my goal will be to make computer science departments less practical
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:21 (eight years ago) link
ppl can learn to program on their own time, it's pretty difficult to teach people to be good programmers in a classroom anyway
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:22 (eight years ago) link
practical degrees are p funny partly because theyre so completely impractical, ppl are wasting so much time and money getting a degree that teaches them nothing and 'signals' increasingly less. mostly ppl should just work admin or entry level positions for a couple of years and take w/e professional certification courses theyre going to have to take anyway at night and both they and employers wld be better off blah blah blah work farms in new hampshire
i mean i think education is p fantastic but what if most ppl dont really want to learn about greek history or genetics or chaucer they just want a job that earns them some money
― so solaris (Lamp), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:46 (eight years ago) link
kinda feel like everybody should just major in a science, at worse you become a lab tech and make 40k
― ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:47 (eight years ago) link
not even true for lots of science majors tho
― iatee, Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:51 (eight years ago) link
that's true, everybody should just major in biology or biotech or bioinformatics
― ASPIE Rocky (dayo), Sunday, 6 November 2011 19:52 (eight years ago) link
the bigger problem is that we actually do need a certain amount of people to do generic white collar jobs, a 'liberal arts education' is prob as good a preparation as you're gonna get (powerpoint on hegel -> powerpoint on car insurance companies)
but it's unclear how many people and even more unclear how many people 10 years from now and really hard to imagine that this is some dynamic situation where you can expect most people to look at the macro picture and be like "oh clearly we need X more people in this field" - you can plan ahead w/ some things but right now you're asking 18 y/os to make 6 figure investments in a super complicated market. I'm not sure what the answer is beyond 'college needs to be cheaper'.
― iatee, Sunday, 6 November 2011 20:03 (eight years ago) link
I majored in communication because I thought it was the same thing as communications, but it's not, so I switched to "Journalism and Media Studies" which wound up JUST being journalism, and not even modern tech-centric journalism but like entire classes on how to report news for radio and stuff like that. So now I have a journalism degree. I still am trying to work out how I wound up with a journalism degree.
― Parker Posey as herself dancing to house music in NYC in 1995 (Stevie D(eux)), Sunday, 6 November 2011 20:06 (eight years ago) link
'this person is demonstrating that they think more like me and picked a *practical* major* because we are *practical* people
I was a comp sci major dropout and lol @ the immense mutual disdain between the theoretical comp sci/maths+CS people and the Business & IT majors
― how do i shot slime mould voltron form (a passing spacecadet), Sunday, 6 November 2011 20:32 (eight years ago) link