i thought it might be a quick way of demonstrating that boring george smiley nonetheless took all the necessary precautions, that he's a 'proper' spy etc.
Read the book since, and took delivery of the bbc version this morning
― shite pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 20 October 2011 11:59 (twelve years ago) link
in the book i think it serves as an early reminder that underneath the stuffy Whitehall surface of Smiley's life, stakes is high
― Two Noble Klinsmenn (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 20 October 2011 13:13 (twelve years ago) link
like a metaphor for roy hodgson's style tbh
― shite pele (darraghmac), Thursday, 20 October 2011 13:36 (twelve years ago) link
watching bbc series all weekend, it's exceptional
― interim dn (darraghmac), Sunday, 30 October 2011 13:35 (twelve years ago) link
Read the book, not too many complaints (aside from it would doubtless benefit from an immediate re-read, which is not going to happen). One thing that didn't come off for me is Prideaux's stalking at the end. If he was the super-spook he was made out to be, no-one would have seen him. And, if as happened, Smiley and co did see him - even just a shadow that vanished - they wouldn't have brushed it off, they would have known with the certain justified paranoia of the spook that they were being followed.
― antiautodefenestrationism (ledge), Sunday, 30 October 2011 17:52 (twelve years ago) link
Saw this the other day - bored stiff and somewhat confused for the first half an hour or so but everything got much better from the Istanbul section onwards. Most of the characters seemed a bit thin though, especially the mole suspects.
I liked how tedious and unglamorous it made being a spy look.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 30 October 2011 18:29 (twelve years ago) link
bbc has 300 mins + to flesh out al-alein etc, tho strangely there's less of haydon
― interim dn (darraghmac), Sunday, 30 October 2011 18:32 (twelve years ago) link
characterisation is weak i think yeah, whole thing works much better as melancholy, dreamy eye-candy than as any kind of procedural.
― Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 30 October 2011 18:32 (twelve years ago) link
still not sure how film-makers revivified the corpse of Peter Lorre to play movie Esterhase
― Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 30 October 2011 18:34 (twelve years ago) link
thought Smiley was gonna tell him that when he slapped him he'd take it and like it at one point
― Agyness Dei (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 30 October 2011 18:35 (twelve years ago) link
lol my favourite line, that
― interim dn (darraghmac), Sunday, 30 October 2011 18:45 (twelve years ago) link
Nnnnhhh I just missed out on a preview screening of this with a Gary Oldman Q&A because my husband is TOO SLOW Now I have to wait til December with the rest of the US :(
― kinder, Thursday, 17 November 2011 00:21 (twelve years ago) link
hard to imagine this condensed to 100 minutes
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 17 November 2011 00:25 (twelve years ago) link
tbf, it's 127 minutes. It's been years since I saw the TV series, but this didn't feel rushed or at all cramped, but obv. there is plenty of stuff from that and the book which was cut.
screening with Gary Oldman sounds like it would have been A+, shame you didn't make it.
― that mustardless plate (Bill A), Thursday, 17 November 2011 07:47 (twelve years ago) link
It wasn't difficult to follow but it demanded attention (the audience of sixtysomethings snored loudly), and the last fifteen minutes consisted of a "Murder, She Wrote"-style let-me-tell-you-how-it-REALLY-happened denouement
Is Gary Oldman so good an actor that when he disappears into a role like this it's so complete that he doesn't give a performance? I didn't find him very interesting. I did snap to attention whenever John Hurt and his bullfrog face appeared though.
― lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 6 January 2012 19:34 (twelve years ago) link
i got sick of the brown-grey dinginess of everything. yeah yeah europe in the 70s i get it.
― goole, Friday, 6 January 2012 19:41 (twelve years ago) link
Usually I complain about "Mad Men"-style "LOL look how things have changed," but not this time. Alfredsom has an eye for the absurd: the owl on fire swooping out of the fireplace; Santa with the Lenin hat.
― lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 6 January 2012 19:43 (twelve years ago) link
now that i've seen the bbc version, oldman vs guinness is a harsh comparison - the movie isn't about smiley to anything like the same extent
― carpy deems (darraghmac), Friday, 6 January 2012 19:44 (twelve years ago) link
The actors all hit their notes (I particularly the deftness with which Alfredson handles the revelation of a key character's homosexuality) but, as I did with the miniseries, I wanted more friction from these men.
― lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 6 January 2012 19:46 (twelve years ago) link
*I particularly liked
I was surprised at how abstract and oblique this film was. I don't know how it would have made sense to me if I weren't already familiar with the story. It really made me realize how exposition-heavy the mini series is. This was the exact opposite, expecting us to infer a heck of a lot from minimal gestures.
The circus headquarters came off as very sci-fi or even steampunkish. Are those little boxy conference rooms a real life detail or just creative set design?
― Moodles, Friday, 6 January 2012 19:57 (twelve years ago) link
this movie had me trying to puzzle if oldman's recent preference for minimalist performances is a real aesthetic/artistic preference that he's grown into, or if he's just tired of being pigeonholed
have some more thoughts, but im gonna wait until i finish the mini to post them (have watched first two eps)
― maghrib is back (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 6 January 2012 20:04 (twelve years ago) link
the abstractness and obliquity are the film's best assests for me, as a straight story it falls very short i think
― the white plies (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 7 January 2012 01:19 (twelve years ago) link
the conference room insulated from noise is a detail from the novel, btw, altho the film's realisation of it doesn't feel remotely true to the book
― the white plies (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 7 January 2012 01:21 (twelve years ago) link
Was there any story-benefit for
SPOILER
- letting the audience think Prideaux is killed- killing Thesinger- killing Irina
apart from trying to pack in some cinematicness? It had the effect of making Moscow seem more thuggish than crafty.
― mick signals, Monday, 9 January 2012 01:36 (twelve years ago) link
well Moscow was!
― lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 January 2012 01:39 (twelve years ago) link
killing irina sets up smiley's most ruthless moment, when he allows tarr to think that she can be saved because tarr is still of use to him
― maghrib is back (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 9 January 2012 02:14 (twelve years ago) link
i really dug this movie, but it creates sort of a catch 22 i guess. i was really into the movie and left it wanting to have the world fleshed out more, so i watched the miniseries... which then makes the movie seem a bit slight in comparison because of how many details are elided - i think they did about the best job they could though
after viewing the movie the only thing that i was slightly dissatisfied with was oldman's perf. i got a kick out of his constantly probing eyes (like an owl), and his accent was quite nice, but i didnt think much else of it. i wanted him to hit a grand slam, and it was more like a ground rule double. i was even more dissatisfied when i saw how much more guinness did with the same role - though to be fair it wasnt really the same role, the movie's smiley was really pared down with fewer character moments, which makes me less than certain whether or not im judging the performance or judging the role
there are things i thought the movie did better (all the ricky tarr stuff was much more artfully presented without really omitting anything that would deepen our understanding of his story), and i thought a lot of the supporting perfs were great - john hurt (who was actually considered for smiley - that might've been a more interesting movie), mark strong, and colin firth really impressed me with how much he suggested about his character with very little screen time, though i would later see that he got his method of manipulating his glasses from ian richardson's bill haydon
― maghrib is back (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 9 January 2012 02:28 (twelve years ago) link
the Ricky Tarr monologue in the movel, original miniseries, and new version are a dramatic dead-end. I don't know why.
― lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 January 2012 02:30 (twelve years ago) link
*is
― lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 January 2012 02:31 (twelve years ago) link
In the novel it was interminable.
i really love how the tv version kind of starts off on this note of smiley being this totally out-of-the-loop outsider who is "too old for this shit", and then he sits down with the british agents at the estate house to meet with the spy-on-the-run, and he takes off his glasses and puts them back on and gives this dude a look which says in an instant that he's the smartest and toughest dude around and it's like "oh shit."
― ('_') (omar little), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 1:43 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark
i actually said 'damn!' out loud at that shot
haha. oldman is so good. has he really never won an oscar?
― tylerw, Thursday, June 30, 2011 10:58 AM (6 months ago) Bookmark
i was looking at his credits recently and was surprised to find that he wasnt nominated for The Contender as i would've sworn he was - he seemed to get the most positive buzz of anyone in the picture at the time, but Bridges got the supporting nom instead
i don't even mind firth, but i'm sure even he would say that oldman's the better actor.
― tylerw, Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:09 AM (6 months ago) Bookmark
not so sure about this now tbh!
― maghrib is back (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 9 January 2012 02:32 (twelve years ago) link
― lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, January 8, 2012 9:30 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
it killed the second episode of the mini for me, just dead in its tracks. definitely not deserving of a 30 minute flashback
― maghrib is back (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 9 January 2012 02:33 (twelve years ago) link
i thought the looks that strong and firth exchange in the xmas party flashback were pretty devastating
― maghrib is back (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 9 January 2012 02:39 (twelve years ago) link
So I did actually go to a Q&A with Alfredson when I saw this and he said the owl fireplace thing was something that actually happened to Le Carre.
― kinder, Monday, 9 January 2012 03:04 (twelve years ago) link
Also I can't be the only person for whomhttp://www.pajiba.com/assets_c/2011/04/toby-jones-AFP_62176s-thumb-300x251-23283.jpeg
=
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2n9G8hS3AbI/TUzDmoPtMFI/AAAAAAAACMQ/-OBCVvsCpps/s400/Pinky+and+the+Brain+Photo.JPGcan I?
― kinder, Monday, 9 January 2012 03:08 (twelve years ago) link
Michael Philipps called Toby Jones "the greatst sniveler" in movies.
― lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 January 2012 03:09 (twelve years ago) link
Toby Jones really annoys me
― Dr Morbois de Bologne (Dr Morbius), Monday, 9 January 2012 03:57 (twelve years ago) link
thought it was funny to find out jared harris was up for toby jones' role first, because ive been getting those two mixed up for a couple years now
― maghrib is back (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 9 January 2012 04:30 (twelve years ago) link
I didn't like this much at all (and I loved the book and mini-series). Just plodding and with all the richness of the characters leached out (would have like to have seen this cast stretched out, but as it was most of the performance could at best be described as workman-like here).
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, 9 January 2012 13:42 (twelve years ago) link
found firth's haydon an improvement, if only on physical appearance
Oldman's smiley a bit of a non-event, think placing his character/development at the core of the movie missed the point somewhat.
― carpy deems (darraghmac), Monday, 9 January 2012 14:15 (twelve years ago) link
I know this is unlikely in any case, but you really must avoid Your Highness. Lots of naked Toby Jones.
― Nicole, Monday, 9 January 2012 14:17 (twelve years ago) link
I rather enjoyed this.
― Do you know what the secret of comity is? (Michael White), Monday, 9 January 2012 16:24 (twelve years ago) link
so they were all gay?
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 9 January 2012 16:29 (twelve years ago) link
Apart from Bill Hayden, who is just decadent.
the Ricky Tarr monologue in the movel, original miniseries, and new version are a dramatic dead-end. I don't know why.― lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, January 8, 2012 9:30 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmarkit killed the second episode of the mini for me, just dead in its tracks. definitely not deserving of a 30 minute flashback― maghrib is back (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 9 January 2012 Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― maghrib is back (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 9 January 2012 Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Certainly the weakest bit in the mini-series but 'dead in its tracks' is a bit strong.
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 9 January 2012 22:03 (twelve years ago) link
I liked this. It's been 30 years since I saw the miniseries, so the story was more or less fresh to me, but the melancholy vibe seemed in line with what I remember.
Agree w/Moodles above about the abstractness and obliqueness, I liked how often the movie made me fill in the blanks. The editing provided momentum that the performances and unspooling of the plot didn't. And maybe I'm just an Oldman fanboy, but I thought he was really good -- sort of a master class in "strong/silent."
What I really took away from it was the sense of this whole generation fading, which must have been what Le Carré felt when he wrote it. These guys (and women) who had won the War, but now had to slog through something a lot murkier and less satisfying no matter what side you were on.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 15 January 2012 04:40 (twelve years ago) link
the point of the soundproofed rooms is not to keep noise out but to keep their voices from traveling out of the room. i am assuming the historical details are all accurate as le carre was an executive producer. i wasn't there at mi6 in 1973 but other spy agencies used similar systems.
i agree with hungry4ass's interpretation on the killing of irina.
as far as i can tell the point of killing thesinger is to establish that the russians were willing to "scorched earth" on the matter of irina, which giving her mole story credibility
we think prideaux is killed because smiley is the protagonist - we know everything he knows, and learn things at the pace he learns them at. we are in his shoes. that sets up the question of "why didn't anybody tell us prideaux was still alive?", answer being because the witchcraft dudes don't want anybody digging deeper into control's idea there is a mole (hayden because he's a mole, everyone else because they're far up their own ass and don't want to risk discrediting witchcraft) so they secretly repatriated him and sent him off to teach public school
the hate on this movie is inexplicable to me and seems to consist of
1) a lot of WHY OH WHY DID THEY PUT IN ISTANBUL INSTEAD OF LISBON without actually explaining why keeping all of le carre's details would have made a difference
2) comparing a 2000s movie to an 80s (sorta) miniseries to a 70s novel. get a life, snobs.
― the late great, Monday, 16 January 2012 00:27 (twelve years ago) link
i agree with hungry4ass's interpretation on the killing of irina.i agree with hungry4ass's interpretation on the killing of irina.i agree with hungry4ass's interpretation on the killing of irina.i agree with hungry4ass's interpretation on the killing of irina.i agree with hungry4ass's interpretation on the killing of irina.i agree with hungry4ass's interpretation on the killing of irina.
― til the power failure (darraghmac), Monday, 16 January 2012 00:29 (twelve years ago) link
good summation of thesinger killing imo
― til the power failure (darraghmac), Monday, 16 January 2012 00:30 (twelve years ago) link
i dont know why you had to end your post like that, and i dont think anyone on here was really 'hating' either
― maghrib is back (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 16 January 2012 00:31 (twelve years ago) link