Aldo reads DC's New 52 (So you don't have to)

sic, i'll try and find a bit more of a concrete reference for all this when i'm not at work, hurriedly tapping this out - my memory tells me that it's something i've picked up from mark evanier, somewhere. again, evanier may also be the 'source' for my gut feeling that infantino never really liked or understood the kirby aesthetic - although yeah, he clearly LOVED adams and made him the unofficial style template for his era as EIC. in general, i would say that infantino's tastes still ran to the illustrative - nestor rendondo! - and the elegantly designed over and above the dynamic and powerful (although again, kirby and ditko were, in their own ways, just as much masters of design as infa...) as you say, it's also a matter of taste - my perference has always been for the artist-led 'marvel style' over the editor-led 'full script' DC method.

i also wanted to introduce the subject of MONEY into all this, but then i realised that i know almost nothing about modern-day contractual rewards at marvel and dc for their corporate-comic bks - is there even a royalty system still in place? back when the royalty system was first introduced in the 80s, the fact that most marvel comics outsold most dc comics certainly helped marvel to attract or keep the 'better' artists, and my suspicion is still that marvel prob pays better than dc, on the whole.

Anyway, I’m reading Ostrander’s Suicide Squad for the first time at the moment, and oh man does this fit in with Ward’s endemic theory – the artist is just awful, basically, but you can pretty much tell who people are and where they’re standing, and by god he cranks it out monthly. 20 issues in and he’s had no fill-ins yet, I think.

When I first read scanned copies of SS I too thought McDonnell's art was awful... But when the first trade came out and I reread it on paper for the first time, it didn't look so awful anymore (possibly because the colours look much better than on the low-quality scans). Sure, McDonnell's character work is totally generic, but at least he has a solid grasp of anatomy, perspective, and visual storytelling in general. By the time 1990s came, all that was often missing even from flagship Marvel and DC titles. IIRC the final issues of SS suffer from this kind of Leifeldian art that makes McDonnell look like Kirby.

I'm reading the originals! (picked up half the run for 50c each at lunch one day, then got drunk a week or three later and bought almost all the rest at 60% off and free int'l shipping from Mile High.) I would substitute "insecure but just barely evident" for "solid," I think. But we should probably find a better thread. (It's definitely hugely preferable to, say, dude from Morrison's JLA, the sort of thing you're talking about. But even then, you had eg JH Williams on Chase, and John McCrea being allowed to half-underground, half-bigfoot monthly on DCU stuff for about seven years straight...)

Can definitely see Infantino not comprehending Kirby - brute power vs elegance!

I was about to say - the period of "Grant Morrison can write a flagship title" started with JLA and terrible Howard Porter art - I can definitely imagine the takeaway lesson being "GM's writing sells by itself".

(also on the subject of DC vs Marvel I was thinking the other day that although I have a lot of issues with Bendis, there really is no comparison between him and DiDio/Johns as regards having a coherent plan for how to shake things up rather than just wanking dead superheroes back to life)

Okay, _apart_ from the fact that he hasn't written a crossover since Siege :)

I get the impression he exerts plenty of influence on long-range planning of the whole MU, not just the Avengers titles.

And the Ultimate universe, really.

is there even a royalty system still in place?

IIRC: DC pays royalties, though they had to revise their thresholds when the market slipped below where they used to actually kick in for almost everyone. Marvel pays "incentives" when they feel like it, and as a rule pay nothing at all for foreign licenses - ie if your big successful Marvel books get reprinted in the UK and Spain and Italy and France, you're probably not getting a reprint fee or bonus or royalty of any kind. They're starting to extend this to domestic now - the big pretty magazine-size reprints of Roger Langridge's Muppets comics (without Langridge art on the cover, or any creator credit whatsoever) are not paying him anything, nor did they even tell him they were doing them.

from Jim Shooter's hugely untrustworthy blog:

"Jim, there's an old story that there was an editorial meeting at DC and someone said that the secret to Marvel's success was "bad art". In an Alter-Ego article George Kashdan didn't recall such an event but said he might have agreed with such a statement. Your recollection here would seem to validate the idea that the Marvel material was looked down upon by the old timers."

I wasn't at the alleged meeting in question, but I was in several smaller-scale discussions at DC that echoed the sentiments allegedly expressed at said meeting. DC editors thought Marvel's art, especially Kirby, Ditko and Ayers', was "crude" and child-like. Mort mused that maybe kids related to it because it was like their own scribbles in their school notebooks. I never actually heard anyone tell an artist "draw worse," but that was the implication.

Evanier, writing about the go-go checks period, says:

In later years, some of them would deny it but others say it was true; that the DC execs thought the Marvel books were horrible — bad art, bad stories, bad characters, bad everything. DC artist Mike Sekowsky used to do an impression of the company's publisher throwing down a Marvel book and gasping, "This is garbage! The readers have no taste!" At some point, an explanation began to emerge for the ghastly sales trends. Obviously, it went, readers were getting confused and were buying non-DC books thinking they were DCs.

Count me as one of the people who think these are so much better than what actually came out. I have some issues (Lantern having no ring, Supes' 'alien form') but I would actually buy and read the DC reboots if they were nearly as clever (I am digging Action though). Reminds me of Tom Strong, which I love.

Actually, as far as Marvel's long-term planning goes, I feel like they're "pulling a DC" at the moment -- i.e. crossovers and continuity fanwankery, no jumping on points. (Loving Daredevil, though.)

actually X-Men just reached an excellent jumping on point (Cyke/Wolvie ideological fallout where Cyke continues running a separatist paramilitary team on Utopia and Wolvie goes back to Westchester to rebuild the school with the major X-Men splitting along interesting and sometimes unexpected lines behind them)

UPDATE!

Green Arrow: #1 - inker replaced. #4 - horrible writer JT Krul dropped. Another writer offered book, turned it down. Didio tags regular shrugging sidekick Giffen to step in alongside penciller Dan Jurgens as co-writing team.

Giffen/Jurgens out as writers with #7, to be replaced by ANN NOCENTI. Yes, three months after challenging those complaints about gender imbalance at SDCC, Didio has reconsidered, racked his brains, and boldly brought into the fold The Only Woman Superhero Comics Writer He's Ever Heard Of.

at this rate, I'm guessing we can expect Gerry Conway to take over from issue #10.

This must be due to Giffen replacing Perez on Superman, no?

Luke McDonnell's art does look better when he inked himself. I'd think with as much black he liked to use, those Suicide Squads would have looked pretty good in a black and white Showcase.

If you are a fan of that run of Suicide Squad, be sure to check out the Deadshot mini-series that Ostrander, Kim Yale and McDonnell did when the series was going That's one of the best of the lot.

Yeah, I realised after my noting his reliable monthliness upthread that he also did a four-issue spin-off miniseries at the same time. Take that, Rags Morales!

He also did 12 consecutive issues of The Phantom around that time.

There's actually a couple-ish jumping on points at Marvel now, particularly in THUNDERBOLTS and THE HULK, but I'd be the first to admit that they're "blink and you miss 'em."

But overall, Marvel is where DC was just a couple years ago: Line Architects, Too Many Crossovers, Fanservice 101.

A book like DD is completely unexpected and wonderful, and honestly, it's simply bog-standard superheroics. But it's bog-standard superheroics that have largely jettisoned the baggage that the character has been stuck with since one F. Miller took over the book in NINETEEN EIGHTY ONE. It should not have taken this long, and yet it did.

I really do wonder what the DC line is going to look like in a year. How many number twelves will there be?

10

20

$1 office pool, anyone?

I'll chuck one in.

I was gonna say 23, but I'm going with 17.

Ewige blumenkraft!

30, although they may not all be from the launch 52.

My LCS had their order sent to the wrong place this week, so I will be catching up on last week's titles this weekend.

We might want to put caveats in there. I was basing my number off of the original 52.

I was assuming that everything would be so delayed that by the end of the first year something that hasn't been published yet might manage to cram 12 issues in.

I've only been hitting the comic shop once every 2-4 weeks and this is the first time there was more than a couple of the titles on the shelves, as my local store got stocked up with a bunch of the reprints.

I have liked everything I have read so far, even though there is a whole lot of 'this is so and so' and this is how it is going on. But I really dug how all of the epic back story is kind of swept away and it's a new start, it really made some of the old ideas seem kind of fresh like OMAC which is definitely Kirby as genre and welcome now that Godland is almost done.

Action 1-2
Frankenstein Agent of SHADE 1-2
Animal-man 1-2
Stormfront 1-2
OMAC 1-2

Sad thing is that I know I am going to love some of the weird titles and they are just going to run 8 issues.

Still to read-
Swamp Thing 1-2
Superman 1
Batman 1
Detective 1
Batwoman 1

On the Marvel tip, Thunderbolts is quite a bit of fun even the tie in to Fear Itself which was actually used as a good way to shake things up and change the status quo.

Then again it does often seem the better comics at Marvel and DC are the one's furthest from the major characters.

"one of the major problems for DC since abt 1970 is their generally 2nd-rate artists"

DC seemed to be run so different than Marvel back in those days, as you would have editors that worked almost with their own lines and seemed to have regular artists that stayed on their titles.

Oddly enough many of the the better artists DC would have outside of Jim Aparo would regularly not be doing the super hero comics instead could be found on the war or western or mystery horror titles. And some others like Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez or Neal Adams would do quite a bit of work for DC in the 70s, but often generally doing advertising or artwork used outside the comics for toys etc.

Outside of Swan on Superman and say Aparo on Brave and the Bold, you also got a quite a bit of artist change up all the time and I think it goes back to the editorial difference on comics with DC in that it was much more rare to ever have a story go beyond a single issue or even sometimes fill up a whole issue, as DC continued to use the shorter format stories so much more so than Marvel in the 70s, especially in the comics that were not super hero books. They kind of used their back stock a bit different than Marvel, as even in the mid to later 70s you see occasional drop in issues that are reprints- which became a big no-no at Marvel after a certain point in the early 70s. DC's lines always had a ton of reprints going too with the 80 and 100 page giants.

come back, aldo!

another casualty of the new 52

Aldo has changed writers.

too many pouches, couldn't have his feet drawn right, etc

ILX downtime, comic shop fuckup, me being away last weekend: I'll summarise the Week 2s when I have actually read them (before the end of the week I guess) but it is unlikely to be picture heavy just because of the time that takes.

Feel free to commission some fill-in artists, Aldo

OK, catch-up. Week one of month 2 i.e. the ones I have read thus far:

Batwing #2: Still lovely to look at, still Winicky, still not buying it past #3. The cliffhanger from the last issue is resolved by "he got better", although in a true Batman way it takes two weeks, during which the bad guy has advanced his plot NOT ONE IOTA. Once we've established the hero is well enough again then he continues. Actually, I quite like the new character that gets introduced and could have been on the fence for getting this if the same team was sticking to it, but no.

Detective Comics #2: Blimey, Bruce Wayne is a right dirty shagger in the new DCU, isn't he? The awesome climax of the last issue gets forgotten so he can have possibly non-plot related sex, but when we actually get into it this is still pretty good. Dollmaker has the makings of a pretty good Bat-villain, even if I don't like his retinue very much.

Green Arrow #2: JT Krul just goes from bad to worse. This is truly appalling stuff, with crap youthspeak peppered throughout and the characters are plain ridiculous - Lime and Light, for example, are attention-seeking criminals. Light's power is light, so Lime's power is... not being a lemon? Making cuts sting? No idea. Anyway, we get the murder of a young kid just so it can get filmed and put on the Internets, following the happyslapping theme of the first issue, which is a trap to get GA to FITE. Which is going to be streamed live on the internets. My head hurts with the amount of DO YOU SEE in this comic. Dreadful stuff.

Hawk & Dove #2: Oh my. I thought #1 was bad, but this takes the biscuit. We start with the introduction of the new villains of the piece, Condor and Swan. Don't laugh. Actually, this throws away some of the basic premises of the history of the characters - firstly, Hawk and Dove makes sense because they are birds we would associate with war and peace and it makes sense for their avatars to be called that. But what are Condor and Swan? The gods of getting trapped in valleys and appearing serene while frantically moving your legs? To make it worse (as if it could be) Swan becomes Swan after killing Osprey. Now as above, does the god of catching fish really need an avatar? But also how does he then change what he's the god of? As we saw after the death of Don and Dove transferring into Dawn, it doesn't change what the avatar is. The writing is possibly worse than the first issue but it's a close run thing. In other news, this is as Liefeld-tastic as the first issue. I may do another montage.

Justice League International #2: After a good first issue, this dips back to being a pretty standard hero book with not much to offer. The one thing that is clear is Dan Jurgens seems to have lost his ability to write - do we really need lines like "...and that looks like my native Africa!"? We also learn that Dan has no idea what menage a trois actually means. Not a winner, but this issue might just be a blip.

Men of War #2: The Rock part of this book is better than last month, the SEALS part worse. Tbh I don't get what the flying woman with the red scarf for clothes has to do with any of it, but it kind of works and at least shows the book is going somewhere. The SEALS thing is still going nowhere though, and takes 8 pages to move the plot on about 3 panels. And the artist still can't draw feet or ankles.

OMAC #2: See notes for #1. This is just really more of the same, although the Brother Eye plot is beginning to expand. This issue kind of reminds me of RASL, of all things. Probably the most all-out fun of any of the 52 books. You should still all be getting it.

Red Lanterns #2: After the first issue, this is more philosophical musing on the nature of rage and anger barely held within the confines of a funnybook. I think if this was an indie we'd all be raving about it but I'm not entirely convinced it works in this context. I'm prepared to stick around and see. We are teased at the end that Atrocitus will make one of his Red Lanterns more than the vegetative state they currently are. Who will it be? MAYBE THE ONE THAT'S ALREADY BEEN IN ANOTHER BOOK?

Static Shock #2: Putting the boot in with yet another shitty book, this is at least slightly better than #1. I can't really explain why, as flipping through it to remind myself while I write this there's so much to hate I'd forgotten about - Dakota being the nexus of America for street gangs, for example. Somebody should tell Scott McDaniel there's a black Spider-Man now, so we don't need this one.

Stormwatch #2: This is more like it. The plot of the first issue is developed at pace and we get some proper thrill power. Yes, it's still kind of sub-GMoz, but let's go with it. I'm genuinely looking froward to #3, for nothing else than to see the teased villain reveal.

Swamp Thing #2: As Tuomas asked for it last month, this issue explains a lot of the history he wanted. That done, the second half is a rollercoaster ride through the threat to our hero with a whole pile of artistic nods to the Moore/Bissette/Totleben era and a final splash page sure to have you buying #3. A triumph.

Batgirl #2: Stop trying so hard. This is so tied up in trying to work the Killing Joke and crippled Babs into the reality of the current book that it gets in the way of the storytelling. There are times (the fight in the cemetery, for example) when the book is an absolute joy and times (the policemen in the hospital) when it's a complete mess. It's so frustrating, but Gail Simone's a good enough writer to work past it. I just wish she would, and quickly.

Batman #2: If the first issue of this was some people's highlight of the #1s, this may well be the standout #2 for most. An utter pleasure, and the fight between Bats and NOT NITE OWL is quite superb. Buy this book.

Batman and Robin #2: If this was issue 217 and not issue 2 I suspect I would be enjoying this book far more than I am. It's kind of a mid-paced filler book and the problem is that it has to stand on its own merits, which it fails to do against the other batbooks. It's not bad as such (the "Yes, that's exactly where you are tonight!" splash is the closest it gets to that) but it feels bloated and could be far tighter. Maybe the introduction of BatDog will help? Good job that's the direction Peter Tomasi appears to be going.

Batwoman #2: Find a dictionary and open it. Look up the word awesome. If it doesn't have a picture of Batwoman #2 in lieu of a definition then throw it out and get a better one. I have no doubts that this won't keep up the quality (not least if all the rumours of the issues being in the bank because of the slow pace JH Williams works at) but enjoy it while it's here.

Birds of Prey #2: I'm pretty sure I have already cut this book, which on the evidence of this issue might have been a little hasty. It definitely seems to be going somewhere, even if it is a bit Sadface in places. On the other hand, it just isn't distinctive enough to be worth it - I finished it about 10 minutes ago and the diversion of making a cup of tea has meant I don't remember a single thing about it. Something that slight isn't worth your money.

Blue Beetle #2: I definitely cut this after #1, but #2 is not without its charms. The 'kid trapped in a suit he can't control and doesn't understand' trope is an old reliable one and well done here, especially once they get to the party, but then OH NOES A DESTROYER OF WORLDS IS COMING TO EARTH TO GET THE SCARAB BACK. We're all doomed (although probably we're not).

Captain Atom #2: Hoo boy. If JT Krul ever works in comics again then there's something wrong with the world. A complete stinker. Over-written rubbish of the highest order. Don't even think about reading this out of curiosity.

Catwoman #2: The things people hated about the first issue are back in this one. So are the things people liked about it. This issue isn't going to change anyone's opinions about it, but I think it's okay. It's annoying inconsistent though, primarily with the ease in which Catwoman is smeared across the walls of her apartment, and that's probably the main reson why I'm not going to be sticking with it. And the post-coital stuff at the beginning with Batman is just weird. Sorry.

DCU Presents: Deadman #2: Is this even the same book as the first one? The two issues seem almost completely unconnected and despite seemingly being sequential (the climax of the first leads directly into this) Boston Brand is a completely different character and understands far more about himself and the Supernatural DCU than he did last month. Maybe it's all that hanging out with Dove. Maybe his real name is Vulture. Maybe this will be more readable next month.

Demon Knights #2: SLEEPER BOOK OF THE RELAUNCH. I wouldn't be surprised if nobody was picking this up, but they're all missing out. This is a hoot from start to finish, and Vandal Savage is a damn fine comedy creation. Who knew? If the editorship is letting people write books like this then more power to them.

Frankenstein #2: Up until this is cancelled people will be calling it a poor man's BPRD , and with good reason because it is. I guess it's entertaining enough but it always feels like it's ripping off other material and the constant comparison detracts massively. A shame, because the writing is quite good, but inescapable.

Green Lantern Corps #2: This comic will never get better than the panel where John Stewart goes "RRARR!" and Guy Gardner goes "YARRH!". After praise for the last one, this is far more prosaic and to be truthful much less of a good read. I'm not sure I like it, it's pointlessly violent in a TINY STOMPING FEET way and has OH SNAP a villain who is immune to Green Lantern constructs and rings. WHO CAN GUESS HOW THIS WILL END? I bet I can, and it's with me quitting the book.

Grifter #2: I really can't bring myself to care about this. In issue 1 the lead character was confused about what was going on and in issue 2 the reader is. Bizarrely, this covers a whole pile of the same ground as OMAC #2 but is in no way engaging. A waste of ink and paper.

Justice League #2: Parademons! For Darkseid! I don't know what's more surprising, their appearance or the fact I actually like a Geoff Johns book. This is far superior to the first issue and actually goes some way to establishing the relationship between all the characters - the interplay between Hal and Barry is pretty great. I repeat, A GOOD GEOFF JOHNS BOOK.

Legion of Super Heroes #2: This has about 5 different plots going on and works on distraction. If you keep moving from the main Daxamite plot to one of the sub-soap opera plots about the internal relationships between Legionnaires fast enough then it stops all the Legion fanboys realising nothing's actually going on. Which I don't mind, but I could see people hating. Really not recommended for anyone who isn't a LoSH fan.

Legion Lost #2: Conversely, this is much less WOW KEWL than the previous issue and is far more enjoyable. The characterisation of several of the cast is brilliant (specifically Timber Wolf) and Wildfire's difficulties in understanding exactly what's happening with the Doctor and how it relates to his own life. Excellent stuff.

Mister Terrific #2: Better than the first one, but that's not saying much. I can't think of a single reason why anyone would want to buy or read this, and absolutely none of it stands out or sticks in the memory. Really, why?

Nightwing #2: Maintaining the high standard of the first issue is very much order of the day here and it just about achieves it, although I couldn't care less about Dick's relationship with Circus Girl and really don't need to see them joining the Mile High Club. (Trousersnakes on a plane!) At the end we get some kind of really weird reveal about the circus he grew up in - given the tone of many of the New 52 books I won't be surprised if it's a paedophile ring - which has me dying to read the next issue, which is always a good sign.

Red Hood and the Outlaws #2: I've been dreading this one. Yet, somewhat bizarrely, it barely has any of the faults which bedevilled the first issue and is actually quite a good read (although, like the first, in a sub-Deadpool Max kind of way). The Jason and Talia stuff is, dare I say it, actually pretty good. The sexism is never too fara away though and I'm sure it'll be business as usual next month, which is when I leave it.

Resurrection Man #2: Well, we have a plot this month. Unfortunately it's not a very good one. We also have some SEXEY KILLER GURLS who can get drawn in stylised poses, one of whom is wearing what I believe passes in American pr0n for school uniform. That's bound to help things. Neither of the above make me want to keep reading this, so thankfully I only have one to go. Very poor.

Suicide Squad #2: The trouble with reading too many of these in one go, or writing as you go along, is that you end up contradicting yourself. This is the genuine sleeper hit of the relaunch, a fantastic book which makes you wonder why the creators weren't employed before this. BUY THIS. "Relax. I have a giant hammer."

Supergirl #2: I think this is secretly the best Superman Family book of the relaunch. Kara's failure to comprehend the reality of her situation, which forms the centrepiece of this issue, is excellently written and only generates further mystery - how did she leave Krypton well after it was destroyed? Why is someone using her as a trap for Superman? ALL THIS AND MORE WILL BE REVEALED, TRUE BELIEVERS.

Wonder Woman #2: Boo, hiss etc. Not a patch on issue 1. You promised us this was a horror book, Azzarello, so make it one. The first issue hinted you could do it, so DO IT. (Confession time; I actually did like this but it's a plain WW book and could have been written at any point, possibly most identifiably during the George Perez comeback run.) Disappointed.

The one thing that is clear is Dan Jurgens seems to have lost his ability to write - do we really need lines like "...and that looks like my native Africa!"? We also learn that Dan has no idea what menage a trois actually means.

lol that he ever could write - that said, post the page that prompted the last sentence!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6112/6287255712_21c98c03ba_z.jpg

eh, I'll allow it, there's three of them and it's just some blond chick having a cheap perv

more lol at Batman pledging to follow Jurgens' pet character tbh

dan jurgens never had the ability to draw, never mind write

it's a hard competition as to which he's worse at tbh

though I just also remembered making small talk to be polite at a convention table in high school, bcz I was looking at preview pages and he was standing behind it, and getting shudders at his weird nerdery

erm sorry, drunk, shouldn't have said that!

lol go for it! he always been esp despised by brit comic fans of a certain age after he named ronald reagan as his hero in a convention booklet

It is really odd that this relaunch has killed all of my interest in Stormwatch/The Authority but has made me interested in Grifter and Voodoo.

So far, Action Comics and Batwoman are the only keepers for me, but the Lemire, Cornell and Snyder titles are all decent. The rest I'm too broke to buy. Hopefully there'll be some digital deal in the next year: if there was a 5 for $5 weekly deal, I'd probably spend, well, $260 more every year than I do now.

eh, I'll allow it, there's three of them and it's just some blond chick having a cheap perv

Maybe she's saying "who gives a shit about Booster Gold, why don't you two come over here and party with me"? Seems like it would go with the female voices presented in half of the other books.

aquaman #2 felt like it was 8 pages long and sucked. i almost worked up a little bit of respect (or less-hatred) for geoff johns w/ the 1st issue then, boom, $2.99 for a bunch of splash pages of aquaman spearing dagons.

loving batman, swamp thing, demon knights, i vampire.

and action obv

I am getting into Justice League? Which is shocking to me as I've never cared about that book before.