Steve Jobs RIP 1955-2011

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it's more at discord with apple's image as an environmentally friendly, left leaning company

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 22:35 (ten years ago) link

people totally went after Phil Knight

unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 7 October 2011 22:36 (ten years ago) link

but dayo OTM that's a big part of it too, the disconnect between marketing image + reality

unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 7 October 2011 22:36 (ten years ago) link

Late RiP for Steve. Agree that some of his business practices (and areas of his personal life) were far from sterling, but I have to respect his innovation. How many people are famous primarily for being intelligent in this day and age?

monster_xero, Friday, 7 October 2011 22:38 (ten years ago) link

Per capita the number of suicides is high, but the living/working conditions are not unlike a college dorm, the deceased were mostly around 20, and the suicide rate tends to be naturally higher in those situations. Publicizing a suicide also has a proven copycat influence, and word would spread quickly in the area given the fact they jumped off a building.

Blaming Apple, when not only are there other companies manufacturing at foxconn and the very circumstances would lead to an increased suicide rate, seems a little overblown.

( ) (mh), Friday, 7 October 2011 22:42 (ten years ago) link

there's more of a narrative hook to other people suffering for your luxury good than other people suffering for your cheap good, because in the case of say a cheap bicycle, sure maybe it was made by a kid under candle light, but the brakes are really bad and you could die, too, so there's a kind of parity in suffering. also there's an expectation that some of the premium for buying a luxury good goes towards making sure everyone in the chain gets treated properly, so people are cheated out of the guilt-free premium.

like if you paid 30c more for fair trade banana and it turned out there's still body parts being severed haphazardly, you'd be mad!

Philip Nunez, Friday, 7 October 2011 22:44 (ten years ago) link

Actually, the suicide rate on college campuses is, on average, four times that of Foxconn employees that year.

( ) (mh), Friday, 7 October 2011 22:45 (ten years ago) link

Yeah, and have you seen how popular Apple devices are on college campuses? Coincidence? I don't think so.

brotherlovesdub, Friday, 7 October 2011 22:48 (ten years ago) link

It's also that Jobs's schtick was "I can change the world" -- he took on the music and movie industries and bent them to his will because he wanted them to work differently. When you do stuff like that, "it's just the industry, we can't change this, but at least we're the best of a bad bunch" isn't really good enough.

Like making a pizza isn't theoretically very difficult but when a great pizza place opens up near you, of course you get excited.
Hah, superb!

stet, Friday, 7 October 2011 22:50 (ten years ago) link

Apple has a fairly comprehensive recycling program that probably doesn't involve children in southeast asia scraping capacitors off of motherboards into a bucket, but I might be wrong. That's a hell of a change.

( ) (mh), Friday, 7 October 2011 22:54 (ten years ago) link

also FYI music industry isn't really "working" very well btw

unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 7 October 2011 22:56 (ten years ago) link

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I think a lot of it was overblown bullshit, but there's still something ~off~ about iPads being made in a factory by workers who never even get to *turn one on*. Compare w/Ford, who arranged higher salaries for his staff so they could afford to buy cars.

If Jobs had demanded Foxconn workers be paid enough that they could in theory afford an iPad, would it really have taken all of this $74bn surplus they're sitting on? I don't think so.

stet, Friday, 7 October 2011 22:56 (ten years ago) link

xp

stet, Friday, 7 October 2011 22:56 (ten years ago) link

I mean, I am all about talking about the shortcomings of individuals and companies, but creating issues or doubt to root around for a reason to be skeptical is kind of a bad look.

If Foxconn workers were paid enough to afford an iPad, then you're going to have to pay them enough to have all the things they'd rather have BEFORE an iPad and that's going to cost more than $74bn because you'd be basically building a whole new infrastructure for their lives.

( ) (mh), Friday, 7 October 2011 22:59 (ten years ago) link

No, that's paying them enough to have the disposable income to buy an iPad, which is a different thing. Ford didn't pay his guys so much that buying a car was a no-brainer: it'd still be stretch, something that needed saved up for etc. But a car wasn't this laughably impossible dream for them, either.

stet, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:02 (ten years ago) link

You're assuming they know how to use a computer or have internet access.

( ) (mh), Friday, 7 October 2011 23:02 (ten years ago) link

also FYI music industry isn't really "working" very well btw

― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Saturday, 8 October 2011 09:56 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

idk the big labels seems pretty flush despite all the reactionary whining

Autumn Almanac, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:02 (ten years ago) link

Apple has a fairly comprehensive recycling program that probably doesn't involve children in southeast asia scraping capacitors off of motherboards into a bucket, but I might be wrong. That's a hell of a change.

― ( ) (mh), Friday, October 7, 2011 6:54 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

wait, how many people actually take advantage of this? and from what I understand apple subcontracts their recycling program out to an appraently pretty shitty third party who loves to shaft you.

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:04 (ten years ago) link

in terms of environmental friendliness/social justice w/r/t jobs, those only seem to come into play if they are a byproduct of excellence -- like they'll reduce materials usage, packaging, if it makes the product more elegant. subjecting workers to decent hours and benefits don't fall under this rubric. if he's willing to work first-worlders to the bone in the name of excellence... on the other hand, I don't think foxconn china gets beer bashes. (foxconn US workers get to attend, though!)

Philip Nunez, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:04 (ten years ago) link

but a "every foxconn employee gets an iphone at cost" would be a good policy, imo, even if none of them would ever take foxconn up on it.

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:04 (ten years ago) link

idk the big labels seems pretty flush despite all the reactionary whining

lol you are insane

unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 7 October 2011 23:04 (ten years ago) link

i dont think stet is proposing that the foxconn workers actually buy an ipad, or whatever, i think he means that "can this worker afford the thing he or she is making" (just in, like, numerical terms) is a good way to think about it

max, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:05 (ten years ago) link

I'm going to stop shitting on the thread and get back to Jobs stuff, not computer/Apple industry..

( ) (mh), Friday, 7 October 2011 23:05 (ten years ago) link

the article mentioned that foxconn workers make about 1100 CNY a month, which is not a lot, but it's not that much less than what college grads in china make fresh out of college, if we're speaking comparatively

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:07 (ten years ago) link

noah wylie really does look a LOT like yung jobs

max, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:07 (ten years ago) link

Final scene of the movie will be Scoble watching the very same movie on his iPhone7S or whatever, a tear down his cheek.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:07 (ten years ago) link

idk the big labels seems pretty flush despite all the reactionary whining

Total revenues for CDs, vinyl, cassettes and digital downloads in the world dropped 25% from $38.6 billion in 1999 to $27.5 billion in 2008 according to IFPI. Same revenues in the U.S. dropped from a high of $14.6 billion in 1999 to $10.4 billion in 2008. The Economist and The New York Times report that the downward trend is expected to continue for the foreseeable future[8][9] —Forrester Research predicts that by 2013, revenues in USA may reach as low as $9.2 billion.[8] This dramatic decline in revenue has caused large-scale layoffs inside the industry, driven retailers (such as Tower Records) out of business and forced record companies, record producers, studios, recording engineers and musicians to seek new business models.

and this is just the big 4. smaller labels, retail chains, and mid-level artists have all taken huge hits to their incomes. this is not "reactionary whining" it is a fact.

anyway, there's other threads for this.

xp

unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 7 October 2011 23:08 (ten years ago) link

thx for the knowledge, dayo

( ) (mh), Friday, 7 October 2011 23:09 (ten years ago) link

re: free iphone,
it'd probably be more efficient to give every foxconn employee the difference between what they'd fetch from the secondary market as a bonus.

in that article about working at the apple cafeteria, was a little blown away by the 6-figure+ engineers buying exactly $12 worth of soda to extract full value of their meal plan -- total 3rd world behavior, or at least starving college student behavior.

Philip Nunez, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:09 (ten years ago) link

I mean, maybe this is a totally acceptable set-up. I suppose there are Westerners who work in factories and could never afford to own the products they make, too, like say at Boeing or Rolls-Royce. It's just a feeling, is all.

stet, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:09 (ten years ago) link

where was the cafeteria link?

stet, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:10 (ten years ago) link

I kind of wonder how the music industry compares to 1990 instead of 2000, because even without the consideration of online distribution and piracy, things were looking incredibly unsustainable by 1999.

( ) (mh), Friday, 7 October 2011 23:10 (ten years ago) link

like, I was considering taking an english teaching job in beijing, which would have paid about 4000 CNY a month. I think 4000 CNY is on the high end of starting salaries for fresh grads, unless you graduated from a top u. I think salaries of 1500-300 are more realistic for fresh grads? that is, if you can even find a job - china is graduating far more people than the job market can handle, is what I've been reading.

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:11 (ten years ago) link

total engineer behavior xxp

max, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:11 (ten years ago) link

in that article about working at the apple cafeteria, was a little blown away by the 6-figure+ engineers buying exactly $12 worth of soda to extract full value of their meal plan -- total 3rd world behavior, or at least starving college student behavior.

― Philip Nunez, Friday, October 7, 2011 4:09 PM (1 minute ago)

haha, you don't know many engineers, do you?

citation needed (Steve Shasta), Friday, 7 October 2011 23:12 (ten years ago) link

xxxxp

citation needed (Steve Shasta), Friday, 7 October 2011 23:12 (ten years ago) link

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsprd82GM61qk7pano1_500.png

max, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:12 (ten years ago) link

I know a foxconn engineer that was so paranoid about bringing me inside the campus, that he brought our mac burgers OUTSIDE the building to eat.

cafe expose:
www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/27/apple-cafeteria-caffe-macs_n_983053.html#s374554&title=Aaron_Lefkove_New

Philip Nunez, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:13 (ten years ago) link

I'm a software developer and one of my coworkers admitted that he's had to force himself to stop counting the number of steps to the cafeteria and the number of stoplights on the way to work. He used to know all those numbers off the top of his head.

Engineers: you may not have aspergers symptoms, but you are sure a hell of a lot likely to

( ) (mh), Friday, 7 October 2011 23:14 (ten years ago) link

So I guess Jobs's last public appearance was the Cupertino city council thing where he got approval for the new campus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtuz5OmOh_M

I suppose it works as a legacy.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:16 (ten years ago) link

thanks! xp

stet, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:16 (ten years ago) link

I keep forgetting about Pixar as well, they've got a tribute up:

http://www.pixar.com/

Ned Raggett, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:17 (ten years ago) link

and this is just the big 4. smaller labels, retail chains, and mid-level artists have all taken huge hits to their incomes. this is not "reactionary whining" it is a fact.

k, no worries

Autumn Almanac, Friday, 7 October 2011 23:26 (ten years ago) link

I'm friends with the author of that op-ed piece, and his FBook status update is "Received my first sincere, legitimate death threat today."

per metal injection (Eazy), Saturday, 8 October 2011 03:06 (ten years ago) link

I keep forgetting about Pixar as well, they've got a tribute up:

http://www.pixar.com/

― Ned Raggett, Friday, October 7, 2011 7:17 PM

yo thanks for the heads up -- i hadn't seen that yet

markers, Saturday, 8 October 2011 03:16 (ten years ago) link

(sincerely hadn't seen that yet, surprisingly)

markers, Saturday, 8 October 2011 03:16 (ten years ago) link

love that picture too

markers, Saturday, 8 October 2011 03:16 (ten years ago) link


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