REM: Classic or dud?

R.E.M. remembered by some folks in the Athens community

I don't think "world leader pretend" and "the wrong child" are bad, i just think they're less good than everything else on "green."

I should have added "Drive" as portender of future mistakes -- there is speak-singing earlier on the records (notably "Belong," but Stipe also used to do it a lot in live shows in the 80s) but the particular kind of rhythmically dead speak-singing that mars lots of later tracks starts with "Drive," I think. Not that it's always bad. "Belong" is wonderful.

Finally, "You Are The Everything" is the best song of its kind they ever wrote, only I'm having a hard time specifying what the kind is. But it includes "Nightswimming."

"world leader pretend" is completely fucking awesome, probably my favorite song on green

man what a pretty dirge

I don't think "world leader pretend" and "the wrong child" are bad, i just think they're less good than everything else on "green."

From the album that contains the execrable, interminable "Hairshirt", I can't accept that at all. Definitely the worst of 'that kind' of REM song.

Or at least certainly one of the worst during the bigtime era

you might be right, will relisten to "green" to make sure. i still hate the title of "pop song 89" but jeez, what a song. though the riff doesn't seem as HUGE to me as it once did (e.g. I think I once thought of it as comparably huge to the similarly deployed riff in "Begin The Begin," but now I think so.)

I've listened to this so often in my life that it's hard to listen to it with sustained attention. Also, I'm working on something else. After "PS89" and "Get Up" I'm reminded again of how much I like how big and upfront the vocals (both Stipe and Mills) are on this record. Also, the King Missile cover of this is surprisingly good.

When this record came out I thought "You Are The Everything" was a boring mood-killer between "Get Up" and "Stand." How could I have been so dumb?

I share enough of Stipe's pride in "World Leader Pretend" to forgive him for printing the lyrics. "Get Up" and "Pop Song '89" are good dumb-smart pop. "Stand" too. I don't care for the rest, including "Turn You Inside Out."

uh boy i hate stand and pop song 89, but there's a lot on this album i still love, including the admittedly generic-sounding world leader pretend.

On the other hand, when I listened to this cassette for the very first time, the day it came out, "Stand" came out and I was like, "holy crap, this is going to be the biggest hit of the year and it is also the best song I have ever heard" and I think I was not so dumb about this.

Green is the first CD I ever bought with my own money and by lucky coincidence a stone cold classic

"World Leader Pretend" -- the slide guitar -- it sounds like a theremin to me! -- makes this non-generic for me. The part that's mostly piano is the song of which "Nightswimming"is a cheap third-gen photocopy.

Almost as scary as the cello in "World Leader Pretend": Stipe's hair in the sleeve photo.

elvis costello's favorite r.e.m. apparently!

LOVE:
get up
untitled

love:
you are the everything (note: have not heard in 20 years)
orange crush
turn you inside out

like:
pop song 89
stand
world leader pretend
i remember california

no thanks:
the wrong child
hairshirt

elvis costello's favorite r.e.m. apparently!

this alone makes me hate the album

I stand by my claim that the line "tell me what it's like to go outside / i've never been" is almost impossible to sell, and stipe doesn't do it -- but i had forgotten how bracingly weird and dissonant the mandolin arpeggios are on this song, and i'm not sure now what i meant by calling it a foreshadowing of later bad decisions. the final "it's ok, ok" works for me but he does the same thing better with the final "what about me" in "me in honey"

i never think about "orange crush" but this song is unimpeachable. noticing today the way the rat-a-tat that opens the song is echoed by the guitar, quietly, in other non-obvious places throughout the song. one of the best of mills's wordless backing howls (this is where i get to say how much i like "belong" again)

"hairshirt" is slight but pleasant. the refrain of "the wrong child" is so gorgeous and yet must crawl out of the weird verses half-compromised. i think i like the song a lot for that reason.

it's one of my favorite r.e.m. records because it reminds me of fables in its construction: a lot of styles surveyed, and yet they all feel of a piece.

"turn you inside out" was another one i didn't care for when i first listened to the tape, but the live version won me over. just noticing tonight how the first two measures of guitar quote the opening of "superman." maybe THIS is where the speak-singing in its 1990s form really begins?

I can't really say I don't like "Hairshirt." But I reject "I am not the type of dog."

huh -- i always think of myself as liking "i remember california" but tonight it might be least favorite track here -- it sounds so mannered! The way he says "traffic jeee--ams." The ostentatious harmonies. The guitar blares without really rocking that much. Just not feeling it. Though I hasten to point out that "least favorite song on Green" for me is still a song I like a lot.

Is Mountain Goats "I remember California, I remember Malibu" a nod to this song?

haha doubtful, jd hates r.e.m. (lyrics aren't literal enough i don't think)

it sounds so mannered!

i'd say this about most r.e.m. songs, except maybe circus envy.

but "untitled" is as simple and beautiful as I remember.

j.d. hates rem? that's horrible, it's like telling me that fdr hated ice cream

don't worry: FRD loved ice cream.

thanks, please send follow-up article about how darnielle loves r.e.m.

"turn you inside out" was another one i didn't care for when i first listened to the tape, but the live version won me over.

Yeah, Tourfilm made "Turn You Inside Out" and "World Leader Pretend" really click for me, especially "World," which eventually became my favorite song on the album after my three earlier favorite songs on the album.

Green is fantastic, I love nearly all of it, and I've always preferred it to Out of Time and Document. I Remember California is the only song that's never really done it for me.

Green, especially coming off Document, was where they briefly teetered into U2 territory, but the band thankfully righted themselves.

Green is fantastic, I love nearly all of it, and I've always preferred it to Out of Time and Document.

^This^

IR California is going for that Oddfellows vibe and doesn't quite pull it off but I love the "end of the continent" part

Green reminiscent of Fables in some ways but has more going on in the rhythm department, one of the things lacking in the latter and something that annoyed me about it

yeah Green kicks the arse of Document and Out Of Time. it does seem to be the album that most fans have changed their mind about in recent years. used to be in everyone's top few REM albums; much less so now cause i guess it's too shiny, too 'pop' and so on. i still love it.

used to be in everyone's top few REM albums;

Not when it came out -- as I remember it, old-time fans saw it as kind of a sellout and it was always the lowest-ranked record on rec.music.rem, back when that was a going concern.

"Pop Song 89" is killer but the acoustic take that's the b-side on the single is even more killer.

I don't care for "I Remember California" or "The Wrong Child" & "World Leader Pretend" is only ok. I'm not sure what I think about "You Are The Everything"; the opening crickets make me nostalgic for Georgia, but Stipe's singing is...ugly? Spider-like? Are those vocals treated? It's a wonderful melody, though it's only finally resolved when it leads into "Stand" with its opening chords, so I think of "You Are The Everything" as an album track in essence. Whereas "Stand" is something more.

I still vote for "Turn You Inside Out" as the best song. It shoulda been a hit on rock radio.

I'd forgotten how often Stipe uses his high register on Green, and it's fuckin annoying.

I still vote for "Turn You Inside Out" as the best song. It shoulda been a hit on rock radio.

I seem to remember that it was. In Chicago, at least, the album-rock station ("The Loop") played it often.

they played it a lot in the Twin Cities, too

I wish REM had dome more bubblegum stuff like Pop Song 89, Stand and Get Up. Ah well.

I think The Wrong Child is the only thing I'm not 100% behind on Green. I'm not sure they made an album after it that I prefer (though I certainly like large chunks of Out Of Time/Automatic/New Adventures, and all of Monster).

Listening through now, still have a slight dislike of the wrong child, but otherwise pretty perfect. Never noticed the similarity between I Remember California and Oddfellows, but I can see where you're coming from (except that I love I Remember California).

I prefer 'I Remember California' over 'Oddfellows Local 151', myself. 'The Wrong Child'... I can see why some dislike it, but it's always felt like quite a heartfelt thing to me, especially the outro where Stipe sings 'I'm not supposed to be like this/but it's okay'. I just love the prettiness of the choruses.

It's funny that another person here mentioned rec.music.rem - I've been getting a bit nostalgic recently, and looking up at old newsgroups I used to post on in the '90s (and, of course, a lot that I didn't)... but I found myself reading people's reactions to Monster when it first came out...

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.rem/topics?start=44698&sa=N

also, re: Green.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwZkYc7GCL8

This might be old news to everyone, but it just struck me that "Nightswimming" is like a wistful nostalgic version of "Gardening at Night", celebrating the same subjects - youth, friendship, freedom - only this time in retrospect.

whoever put T H I S together should get some kind of Grammy or whatever cause it really is fantastic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2xclbhrQGw

That bit at the end with the different logos is the best thing about REM in about 10 years

Everybody loves you when you're dead...

Master OTM.

xxp ha yeah fricking AMAZING that. love it.