― Alex in SF, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
I would have liked to see both live. records don't give you the whole picture. I have nevah seen borbeto but i know they played here sometime last year.
''"spare me the argument" => julio you brought up the "intense + visceral" = "rock'n'roll" rubbish''
the stooges work as rock n' roll but what I am talking about is that free jazz dimension to funhouse, which doesn't do much for me.
''iggy did lots of things borb couldn't do if they tried for a million years: viz dance and be funny and silly and pop, the things they are frightened wd dilute their Big Caps Scary Menace oooh''
In the same way Iggy wouldn't try stuff that borbeto does. Borbeto couldn't dance anyway as they play instruments whereas Iggy is a singer. what i am talking about is the sound that both bands make and that the sound that borbeto make is far gets far closer to rock n' roll for me (even though that is not what they try, they are not in the same ballpark I suppose but they make the 'blazing, powerful' recs that matthew talks about in the question) than the stooges.
''i think you're blaming the stooges for YOUR (and/or byron coley's) misconstrual of the rock+free jazz cliche''
I don't buy as this revolutionary type talk. There's great mujsic there but there are other areas where you can say the same. I haven't read byron's notes for seven reasons even. all of this 'new thing', 'fire music' (talking about david keenan here, haven't read much byron coley), all of that is just lazy.
― Julio Desouza, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
I can sort've see the Stones/Stooges sound similarities - both have some kind of relationship w/ r'n'b, both have 'funky drummers' - but there isn't a single Stones alb that I know of that sounds ANYTHING like 'Funhouse'.
My flatmate owns that 'Funhouse' box: it's really interesting to hear an alb, any alb, being put together. In the case of 'Funhouse', the Stooges wld just play through the songs, again and again and again, getting longer or shorter, tighter or more 'freeform' (30 diff. versions of 'Loose', mmmm...) Also, the rather posh English engineer heard at the start of some of the tracks is v. funny. It's prob. true that they picked the best 'versions' for the finished alb - but virtually every take has something going for it, inc. some v. far out and groovy Ron Asheton soloing that didn't make the final cut. You can also hear what a gd saxophonist Steve McKay was, esp. on the longer takes of 'Funhouse', where he gets up to all sorts of post- Coltrane trickery.
Also, most of the lyrics are terrific.
― Andrew L, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dan Perry, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Sarah, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Regardless of that, Funhouse may be my favorite rock record ever. And I like the gatefold pic, wish I had another for display purposes
― hstencil, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
not what i said. I said it gets closer to the heart of rock n'roll than 'funhouse'.
''Borbetomagus is great, but Seven Reasons for Tears is definitely not their best, nor most "intense and visceral" album.''
I was picking one that was available. 'New york performances' is really something but that is out of print. I am looking for 'snuff jazz' and 'zurich' but there isn't much hope to get those, i think. and yet the stooges have a 7CD box set of a really good 35 minute album.
NO FAIR!!!
I've got all of those, they're not hard to find. Also, Borbeto Jam and the first LP are worth having.
You realise yr complaining aboot a ltd. to 3000 copies, available only over the Internet, box set that was sold out in six months, right, and not some mass produced item? It's not like there's this fictious huge demand for every scrap of sound that they made that you seem to want to convince people there is.
― Vic Funk, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
I rest my case.
― Mark, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Oh, well that's thrown the blinders off. Aside from the fact JJF is mid-tempo, and "Loose" is fast tempo'd and completely falls apart on itself mid-way through, they're the exact same song.
But anyway -- Iggy Pop worshiped the Doors, right? And considered joining the band after Morrison died?
The first one, as far as I know, is a myth. The second one is only partially right.
Ron Asheton: "We just wanted to experiment. We used to listen to Harry Partch, lots of Ravi Shankar. Shankar would be on all day. We also liked to listen to the Mothers of Invention so (you had) a little comedy in there! I also admired Frank Zappa, a really under-rated guitar player. Any kind of strange music. Any electronic stuff. Also, I loved the Tibetan monks playing those great big horns. The big gongs and tambourines and the horns going RRRRRRRRRRRRR. And Gregorian chants. Iggy had a record of that and he loved it. "OK, let's see, we take Harry Partch, Buddhist music, Gregorian chants and try to throw in a little Stones and a little Beatles and see what happens." And then add our madness and our own inexpertise. When you don't know what to play, you're not restricted by a style. So many people are TAUGHT to play a certain way. When you have that free mind, ignorance IS bliss and you come up with some really interesting stuff. The guy who was the manager of the Chosen Few was our manager before we got a record deal. He went to the Monterey Pop Festival and he came back with a Jimi Hendrix record. He woke me up when he got back. "I got this album you won't believe." He had these fat joints so we got stoned and he put it on. We wouldn't give him the record back for three days. "Alright, now we got another..." So that was the start and basically, we just plugged away."
Any kind of strange music. Any electronic stuff. Also, I loved the Tibetan monks playing those great big horns. The big gongs and tambourines and the horns going RRRRRRRRRRRRR. And Gregorian chants. Iggy had a record of that and he loved it. "OK, let's see, we take Harry Partch, Buddhist music, Gregorian chants and try to throw in a little Stones and a little Beatles and see what happens." And then add our madness and our own inexpertise. When you don't know what to play, you're not restricted by a style. So many people are TAUGHT to play a certain way. When you have that free mind, ignorance IS bliss and you come up with some really interesting stuff.
The guy who was the manager of the Chosen Few was our manager before we got a record deal. He went to the Monterey Pop Festival and he came back with a Jimi Hendrix record. He woke me up when he got back. "I got this album you won't believe." He had these fat joints so we got stoned and he put it on. We wouldn't give him the record back for three days. "Alright, now we got another..." So that was the start and basically, we just plugged away."
That doesn't sound like Doors worship at all. Hmm, you think perhaps Elektra's staff made up the Doors worship to sell a few extra records?
Iggy didn't consider joining the Doors. After the Stooges broke up, he had nothing better to do, and Ray Manzerek had nothing else to do, so someone suggested they try something together, and nothing became of that.
That was some closed case.
― Jack Cole, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ronan, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― GCannon, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
I'm not saying in no uncertain terms Iggy was not influenced by the Doors, but, aside from "Ann", you probably wouldn't be able to tell, and the records that Asheton has listed (well, maybe not the Mothers), certainly would seem to be far more influential on the sounds of the first record.
Although, Iggy's whole life seems to revolve around "Louie Louie".
― jack cole, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― matthew james, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Venga, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000005IU2/qid=1029531639/sr=2- 2/ref=sr_2_2/102-3032615-8050518