― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 7 April 2007 15:01 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Saturday, 7 April 2007 15:03 (sixteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro, Saturday, 7 April 2007 16:20 (sixteen years ago) link
― Tim F, Saturday, 7 April 2007 17:04 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Saturday, 7 April 2007 17:10 (sixteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro, Saturday, 7 April 2007 18:09 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Saturday, 7 April 2007 18:17 (sixteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro, Saturday, 7 April 2007 18:46 (sixteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro, Saturday, 7 April 2007 18:47 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Saturday, 7 April 2007 18:58 (sixteen years ago) link
― Bimble, Sunday, 8 April 2007 04:57 (sixteen years ago) link
― Bimble, Sunday, 8 April 2007 04:59 (sixteen years ago) link
― Bimble, Sunday, 8 April 2007 22:27 (sixteen years ago) link
― Eric H., Sunday, 8 April 2007 22:35 (sixteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 8 April 2007 23:24 (sixteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro, Sunday, 8 April 2007 23:38 (sixteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro, Sunday, 8 April 2007 23:40 (sixteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 8 April 2007 23:48 (sixteen years ago) link
― Eric H., Monday, 9 April 2007 00:06 (sixteen years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 9 April 2007 00:12 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Monday, 9 April 2007 01:17 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Monday, 9 April 2007 01:20 (sixteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro, Monday, 9 April 2007 01:29 (sixteen years ago) link
― Surmounter, Monday, 9 April 2007 13:49 (sixteen years ago) link
Still astounded "Love Song" hasn't been revived as the Great Lost Single of Madonna's career. It's leagues weirder than anything Prince attempted in 1988-1989, and collaborating with Madonnna tickled his instinct for a good hook. It's just so dense and minimalist at the same time; so many things happening in the percussion, guitar licks, and vocals than the song can support. "Arch" doesn't even begin to describe it. THIS was on a multiplatinum album by the world's biggest pop star?
It's also got my favorite exchange ever:
Madonna: Embrasse moi
Prince: Whut?
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 01:51 (fifteen years ago) link
It was never a single though. But sure, it's a great song. Possibly the best thing Prince did in 1989.
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 08:36 (fifteen years ago) link
Ahh... this is most soitenly not the discussion I thought it would be when I saw thread title. I believe there was an exact antecedent to this thread back in Ancient Ilx somewhere, and I thought that was the thread that had been revived (maybe it had a differing name)..
"Love Song," was particularly panned disappointing at the time of LAP's release for not living upto an imagined "potential" duet between the decade's reigning superstars: how mellow, low-key! All tension, no release, etc. But I always thought it was this very quality that made it interesting: it's not trying to set the world on fire or even make you dance, but genuinely sounds like a SOTT-inspired dialogue between the two (yet I would say it's more Side B than A with reference to that album)
On the whole - and as a cohesive album - Erotica is still superior to the LAP by miles...I mean common rockist critical line championed out of the whole "ooh, substance!" discovery when LAP came out, but Erotica still made almost exactly the same position in the P&J (a few spots down) DESPITE the massive negative publicity of the book & Body of Evidence. And I was fairly certain that crit opinion had reverted y the beginning of this decade when Rockist-of-Rockists, Jim DeRockgatis, upgraded his rating of E and called it the best work of her career during a retrospective (Xgau had always held that position and it was the first studio album he had unreservedly given an A to, putting it in his top 10). Now that I'm being scarrry with statistics...
A simple way to answer this question: which album doesn't sound really dated? The entire production of LAP screams 1989, but I know that's part of its now-nostalgic appeal. Yet it still seems so desperately trying-too-hard, plz-to-find-me-SERIOUS ARTISTE- k-thx-bye. Erotica is effortless by contrast and demonstrates her immense growth in only three years - less trying to impress than provoke, it has large sections that sound utterly contemporary - and even her "artiste" moments are so far removed from LAP's schlock, I mean she's throwing fucking Gershwin in there. Its proto-trip-hop and synth-ambient mood stylings as prescient as Neneh Cherry's Homebrew which came out the same year - and I was amused to see *this* aspect being referenced in a discussion of her own canon in a new review of "Hard Candy" ->
From the Observer: http://music.guardian.co.uk/pop/reviews/story/0,,2273969,00.html >>Hidden away at the end of Madonna's oft-derided 1992 album Erotica is a song called 'Secret Garden'. Recorded before she'd popped out Lourdes, at a time when the wolves of artistic exhaustion and media overkill seemed to be snapping at her heels, it's a strikingly introspective and personal piece of work, which now has a prophetic lustre. While its lyrics map out previously uncharted emotional terrain, the musical backdrop prefigures the extent to which the best records Madonna was going to make in the coming decade and a half - 'Ray of Light', 'Music' and 'Hung Up', to name but three - would exceed the expectations anyone (even pop's iron lady herself) had a right to have of them.<<
Haha - of ALL songs to notice, finally, I'm glad that one is getting its due. It's so much better than any of the garbage she's written this decade! (I am almost thoroughly anti-Madonna post "Beautiful Stranger," with a handful of exceptions; this album could change that but it's unlikely). I mean I can go back and get astonished at listening to what she was slyly alluding to on that last song on Erotica - about childbirth and disillusionment - 15 years ago, but the closer on "Confessions," whatever its called, is such preachy self-important and unsubtle shit by comparison. "I'll be the garden you be the snake," - WHAT? - also mentioning a garden, that's why it makes me remember SG, but so cringe-worthy. No that she finally had the kids and used her vagina for something other than fucking and B-celebrity manipulation...what the hell happened to her *mind* ? It's as if becoming a wife and mother made her think she can coast on autopilot: she even recycles EXACT song names - "Forbidden Love, - but not Pt. II" - sans any wit, intelligence or irony - all of which initially made her memorable/fun to start with.
Mr Soto I liked your "On Second Thoughts" column on Erotica in Stylus a few years ago when I saw it, but you'll need to send me a link again since I'd a re-read. >>And some of the songwriting doesn't settle right with me, like Bad Girl? I just don't know about that. I mean it's funny at least. << Are you serious? It's her best written song (not just ballad) this side of "Live to Tell" (and more confessional to boot)
― Vichitravirya_XI, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 10:15 (fifteen years ago) link
That last bit was directed at Surmounter fwiw; I like how ILX knows exactly when to revive threads that would just be of interest to me - Erotica here, cosmic retribution over there - during my bi-annual visits, just to hook me into sticking around....humbug!
― Vichitravirya_XI, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 10:19 (fifteen years ago) link
From the other thread: "What I've heard strikes me as a successor to Music, another tour through the latest dance trends, except she's so busy dancing and staring at Justin's ass that she farms out the songwriting more often than usual."
Much more along the lines of what I predicted then, alas - but that's been her mojo now...after Ray of Light, when she finally felt grammy-minted and critically "made it," she's let go of any aspirations towards songwriting at all (and her best songwriters as well) - for what is there left to prove? The one trainwreck of the only "serious album," American Life, was co-written by a French guy who apparently isn't great at English. She's beyond care.
― Vichitravirya_XI, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 10:24 (fifteen years ago) link
Here ya go, Vichi.
You are mostly OTM too, except LAP was so overrated for a while that now it's her most underrated album (still inferior to Erotica though).
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 11:14 (fifteen years ago) link
i'm always blown away by Love Song
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 13:16 (fifteen years ago) link
I didn't actually realize that Erotica had such a significant critical backing even in the day, but I am heartened by it. It remains pretty much the only Madonna album that does anything for me as an album.
― Eric H., Tuesday, 22 April 2008 13:22 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah it's like that, you don't think ppl responded to it well but after the fact that doesnt seem to be so
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 13:33 (fifteen years ago) link
The entire production of LAP screams 1989
The faster and more "poppy" tracks, maybe, but LAP is mainly about those wonderful melodic ballads, and they sound as timeless now as they did in 1989.
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 13:54 (fifteen years ago) link
On the other hand, "Erotica" sounds extremely 1992. Those "thumping" dance beats are extremely outdated by now and will never again get back in fashion.
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 13:56 (fifteen years ago) link
LAP is mainly about Act of Contrition
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 13:57 (fifteen years ago) link
Yes – I hate "Spanish Eyes" as much as I did in 1989.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 14:06 (fifteen years ago) link
"Spanish Eyes" is in my Top 10 of all time favourite Madonna tracks. Absolutely beautiful. "Oh Father" and "Dear Jessie" are even better though, and "Promise To Try" is almost up there. Those four songs are the main reasons why I love "Like a Prayer" so much. Madonna shows there's more to her than those annoying and stupid dance tracks. She shows she can also do classy and timeless music with great tunes, appealing to all generations, not just the kids.
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 22 April 2008 22:26 (fifteen years ago) link
only just realised 'Love Song' has the "time goes by so slowly for those who wait/those who run seem to have all the fun" lines later cribbed for Hung Up...but also the 'were you just being kind, or am i losing my mind" line from Liza Minelli/PSBs 'Losing My Mind? who stole from who here?
― unban dictionary (blueski), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 20:29 (fourteen years ago) link
"Losing My Mind" is a Sondheim number predating both songs by several years.
― post-contrarian meta-challop 2009 (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 20:31 (fourteen years ago) link
aha thx
― unban dictionary (blueski), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 20:34 (fourteen years ago) link
Erotica is a lot of people's favorite Maddie studio album
??? the mind boggles as to who the "a lot of people" in this statment are...i.e. like the vast majority of people in the world that don't even remember erotica at all?
― the turdlike genius of Jeff Tweete´ (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 20:39 (fourteen years ago) link
The vast majority of us who have better ears and believe in freedom.
― post-contrarian meta-challop 2009 (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 20:43 (fourteen years ago) link
Also better butts.
― Kevin John Bozelka, Tuesday, 25 August 2009 21:17 (fourteen years ago) link
wouldn't a lot of ppl's favorite be like a virgin?
― the turdlike genius of Jeff Tweete´ (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 21:20 (fourteen years ago) link
(don't want to see your butt kevin, no offense)
What people? I've never heard anyone rep for it. In order of frequency of mention: Like a Prayer, The Immaculate Collection, Erotica.
― post-contrarian meta-challop 2009 (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 21:21 (fourteen years ago) link
http://www.the-top-tens.com/lists/best-madonna-albums.asphttp://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=10584534401&topic=7853http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2555983http://www.rankopedia.com/ZoneID=3/2566/Best-Madonna-album/Step1/1016.htm
― I have a set of penises leftover from some bach party somewhere (HI DERE), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 21:25 (fourteen years ago) link
None, Madonna sucks (8 votes, 50%)
― post-contrarian meta-challop 2009 (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 21:26 (fourteen years ago) link
Kevin John Bozelka's butt is NOT canon
― the turdlike genius of Jeff Tweete´ (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 21:41 (fourteen years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna_singles_discography
wau Canada
― I have a set of penises leftover from some bach party somewhere (HI DERE), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 21:44 (fourteen years ago) link
Uh oh. Is that Hi Dere's new login name (or whatever those things are called)?
― Kevin John Bozelka, Tuesday, 25 August 2009 21:44 (fourteen years ago) link
haha no, I only pick on Mondays
― I have a set of penises leftover from some bach party somewhere (HI DERE), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 21:45 (fourteen years ago) link
I don't think any of Madonna's albums are particularly well-remembered by people generally, outside of the singles - Matt do "the people" whose opinion you want to put forward here remember any tracks from Like A Virgin outside its two big hits (and "Angel" at a stretch)? Like A Virgin is possibly Madonna's least talked-about album-qua-album.
Like A Prayer probably would rate best in terms of "songs people remember" but only because, like, over half the tracks were released as singles and all had reasonably strong promo push.
But in general what "the people" remember is The Immaculate Collection.
― Tim F, Tuesday, 25 August 2009 22:40 (fourteen years ago) link
Anyway you should go and listen to Erotica, it's fantastic. A bit sad though: a friend pointed out to me recently that "Words" has really good lyrics, and I immediately thought to myself "yeah I like it too, but isn't that supposed to be the worst song on the album lyrically?", and then I realised she was comparing it to recent Madonna lyrics.
― Tim F, Tuesday, 25 August 2009 22:42 (fourteen years ago) link
i would absolutely agree w/this and it's the only madonna i will ever need
― the turdlike genius of Jeff Tweete´ (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 22:43 (fourteen years ago) link
but there's nothing from erotica on it. :(
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 25 August 2009 22:44 (fourteen years ago) link
surely people remember true blue as an album, given how many of its songs were singles? and standards, at that.
always got the impression that like a prayer was the consensus ::canon:: favourite, with a smaller but significant minority of critics/fans (most of whom are pretty hardcore madonna fans) repping for erotica.
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 25 August 2009 22:49 (fourteen years ago) link
(the erotica backers are, of course, correct.)
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 25 August 2009 22:50 (fourteen years ago) link
Singles to album track ratio of True Blue: 5/0Like a Prayer: 6/11
― post-contrarian meta-challop 2009 (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 22:57 (fourteen years ago) link
er, 5/9
haha i was gonna say true blue is like rift in the space time continuum!
― the turdlike genius of Jeff Tweete´ (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 25 August 2009 23:01 (fourteen years ago) link
Then Play Long writes a little letter to Madonna: http://nobilliards.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/madonna-like-prayer.html
― agincourtgirl, Sunday, 28 June 2015 17:07 (eight years ago) link
til death do us part is my favorite madonna song at this point. It's just utterly irresistible. That dry-ass chicken clucking against the liquid guitar splashes and that melllooodyyyy, oh heavens help me.
Every time I play LAP all the way through I like it more and more as an album too. Might be my favorite Madonna album as a whole now.
― scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 21 April 2016 14:41 (seven years ago) link
SHE'S NOT IN LOVE WITH HIM ANYMORE
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 21 April 2016 14:48 (seven years ago) link
i listened to this album yesterday and 1. i don't think i voted for "cherish" in the madonna poll 2. i think it's my favorite madonna song now? 3. it's at least the closest she came to recording a scritti politti song. that instrumentation!
― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Thursday, 21 April 2016 15:12 (seven years ago) link
Why did we both listen to this album yesterday? ~mysteries~
― scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 21 April 2016 15:17 (seven years ago) link
'Till Death Do Us Part' is perfection, one of my Top 4 tracks on the LP along with the title track, 'Dear Jessie' and 'Oh Father' ... I've been listening to Like a Prayer a lot recently. Excellently produced, almost every song is fantastic and it has Prince on it!
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Saturday, 17 June 2017 07:50 (six years ago) link
WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S NOT IN THE COMPUTER!?
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Monday, 19 June 2017 11:59 (six years ago) link
Wait, how come Erotica has been polled twice and Like a Prayer hasn't been polled at all?
(Not counting the artist poll, of course)
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Monday, 19 June 2017 19:00 (six years ago) link