Loveless: Classic or Not That Classic

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Pinefox - it's "Uncategorized" at the moment, will remedy next time I'm doing that sort of thing. I believe it's supposed to be a SEARCH AND DESTROY thread?

― Josh, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

#3 on my 40-records list. great for all the reasons ned discussed in his albums-of-the-90s list. useless if you listen to it as a rock album, i.e. for the singer's personality, for the drive and lock of the rhythm section, etc.

― sundar subramanian, Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

one month passes...

To Ned and other shoegazer fanatics: I find the more abstract parts of Loveless to be the most thrilling ( 'To Here Knows When' and 'Loomer' in particular ). I can't claim to have heard much post- Loveless shoegazer, but what I have heard seems to emphasise the more "pretty" elements of shoegazer- the cooing vocals, the shimmering melodies. These songs seems to be descendants of Loveless's more, ahem, "song-based" material ( 'When You Sleep', 'Sometimes' ). The abstraction I crave seems to exists as IDM and other experimental electronic stuff. Is there any shoegazer that might provide what I'm looking for?

― Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

mitch, you may be interested in Accelera Deck's Narcotic Beats. its not shoegaze, its some guy from alabama and came out in about 1997. the supposed kevinshields drum'n'bass record, the jungle-loveless, that never appeared? it may have sounded something like this. when i first got it, i was like *ohmygod*, its dated a little now (but then i have played it a lot). the other accelera deck records i've heard are not like this, so i think it was a one off.

― gareth, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I'm with Mitch on this one: always thought "Blown A Wish" was by some way the weakest track on Loveless.

― Robin Carmody, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

By way of an answer to the original question, I used to be of the impression that this was an out and out dud when I first got my hands on it on a second-hand cassette in the early nineties, and can distinctly remember thinking that the tape must be stretched or something because of the 'awful' noise coming out of the speakers. So I spent hours winding it forwards and backwards and playing it over and over again, in an attempt to 'correct' the backwards noise assault that was infilitrating my head space. Sometime during this 'correction period' I started to like what I was hearing, until I became absolutely obsessed with the album and bought an 'uncorrected' copy on CD. I still love listening to the full album at wall-shaking volume while I get ready for a night out, although parts of it DO sound like a vacuum cleaner on reverse. Which is no bad thing.

― Add, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

When "Loveless" came out in 1991, I guess, it was a really ground- breaking album. I used to listen mainly to US bands like the Pixies, the Breeders, Dinosaur Jr and the Lemonheads. MBV brought the attention back to England. Ride, Lush, Catherine Wheel and the Pale Saints were working on similar ground. Even Wedding Present's brilliant classic "Seamonsters" somehow fits in here. I used to listen to "Loveless" in the winter 1991/92 and I especially remember how brilliantly it sounded when driving in the fog which was quite frequent at that time in Luxembourg. I went to see them in Brussels and there I was a little disappointed. It did not work live like on record. Of course the famous end of the show in one fifteen minute guitar noise chord was shite but somehow it turned out that this music was probably too elaborate (MBV are known for their perfection which is also a reason for their slowness in releasing stuff) for live concerts. Recently I bought the CD (before I only had a tape) and I was quite disappointed. It did not age well. There is a lot of filler, only 3 or 4 tracks stand out. Many tracks became utterly unlistenable to me. And it is true the sound quality of the CD is really bad, this probably is intended. Yesterday I listened to four mp3 tracks (on their website) by Your Precious You from San Jose or San Francisco. They sound like a mixture of Smashing Pumpkins and MBV (with maybe some Idaho influence). And they sound better than those two groups (and I think Smashing Pumpkins debut "Gish" is still one of the most underrated records). Especially "Wake" is amazing. I had the impression the voice started quite low on this song and became more and more high- pitch towards the end. They use a lot of droning and when listening on the headphones I really got addicted. Does anybody know where to buy albums of Your Precious You? I read they released two records: "Painkiller EP" and "Test Pattern". Amazon and Ebay did not have anything when I checked.

― alex in mainhattan, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Loveless sounds like the cover looks, and that's ace. Classic.

― Nick Southall, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

three years pass...

It's actually kind of good, isn't it?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 30 August 2004 19:38 (nineteen years ago) link

the rhythm tracks are kind of banal for an album that's so otherwise sonically adventurous

― amateur!!st, Monday, 30 August 2004 19:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Hmmm.

I'm listening to it on CD and on headphones for the first time. (I've had a cassette for a while, but I never listen to it, and I've always considered it overrated.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 30 August 2004 19:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Just because something's overrated doesn't mean it's not great.

― n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 30 August 2004 19:45 (nineteen years ago) link

amateur!!st otm, but that's one of the things that gives it its character. It's probably got the most linear dynamics of any album evah

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 30 August 2004 19:45 (nineteen years ago) link

i have no problem with people loving this album, but there are certain qualities of it that seem to have become the basis for something of a whole aesthetic, even an ideology, for some people. in a lot of mentions on ILM it ceases to become an album and becomes, like, a totem.

― amateur!!st, Monday, 30 August 2004 19:47 (nineteen years ago) link

I keep forgetting that I was in a band in college that covered "Only Shallow" once.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 30 August 2004 19:49 (nineteen years ago) link

i really like this record btw, but there are at least 15 other records released in the 1990s that communicate more to me

― amateur!!st, Monday, 30 August 2004 19:50 (nineteen years ago) link

a whole aesthetic, even an ideology, for some people

Are you saying you don't have albums like that for yourself? ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Ned, he doesn't even know what this thread is about.

I was just listening to this actually!

― ())(())()()()(()(LASER)()()()LA(Z)E(R)()()()((L)()()(A)(S(E)R()()()) (ex machina, Monday, 30 August 2004 20:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Yay

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Are you saying you don't have albums like that for yourself? ;-)

no, i can't think of one album or even one genre that serves as a kind of organizing principle for my tastes.

― amateur!!st, Monday, 30 August 2004 20:11 (nineteen years ago) link

i was listening to this last night. i like that weird instrumental track. also listening on headphones reveals that the lyrics to many of the songs actually contain their titles!! who knew??

― amateur!!st, Monday, 30 August 2004 20:12 (nineteen years ago) link

no, i can't think of one album or even one genre that serves as a kind of organizing principle for my tastes.

Good! Then you might be surprised to find you are not alone.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Does anyone think that UNWOUND sounds like Loveless in some points on the last album, texturewise?!? Am I on crack?

― ())(())()()()(()(LASER)()()()LA(Z)E(R)()()()((L)()()(A)(S(E)R()()()) (ex machina, Monday, 30 August 2004 20:13 (nineteen years ago) link

unwound bettered it

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:14 (nineteen years ago) link

A harsher edge in general, Unwound, but I think there's a definite thrill of sound-qua-sound that they had which has parallels. It's been a while since I've heard Leaves Turn, might have to give it another listen. Bettered? Great band, but I will not go that far -- especially on the basis of live performances.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:14 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't understand why people have such trouble deciphering the lyrics to Loveless!!! I mean yeah not all of it's intelligible but certain phrases certainly jump out, yes?

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 30 August 2004 20:15 (nineteen years ago) link

well there's that one song that's almost poppy and where the lyrics are foregrounded in a way they aren't on the other tracks. what is the name of that one?

― amateur!!st, Monday, 30 August 2004 20:16 (nineteen years ago) link

"Sometimes," I'm guessing.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:16 (nineteen years ago) link

My guess is "Blown a Wish".

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:17 (nineteen years ago) link

sorry to be vague, i just don't have the record w/me right now

― amateur!!st, Monday, 30 August 2004 20:19 (nineteen years ago) link

Hmm...did it have one guitar part and a high synth line plus vocals?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:19 (nineteen years ago) link

uh i think it has the line "...could not love me now..."

― amateur!!st, Monday, 30 August 2004 20:21 (nineteen years ago) link

today will be the day i transfer this to ipod and listen to it on headphones for the first time in years

― artiste (artiste), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Yep, that's "Sometimes"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:24 (nineteen years ago) link

i can remember stealing this CD during my third year of university. after hearing a track on our local campus station, i decided i needed a copy but the CD was only seemed available as an overpriced import. i was working at a record store at the time, and while we were doing inventory (comparing what we should have to what we actually had), i noticed the store had no record of its one copy of the album. so i took it.
fuckers never paid me enough anyway.

― Bruce S. Urquhart (BanjoMania), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:24 (nineteen years ago) link

I remember listening once to Loveless and loving it. When I finally bought it a few years later I didn't like it as much becaus it reminded my to The Smashing Pumpkins (who I hate).

― daavid (daavid), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:29 (nineteen years ago) link

And well it should remind you (Mr. Corgan has been most open about admitting where he got a lot of the sound from).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Actually even the vocals sound the same. I actually thought it was B. Corgan singing in one of the songs.

― daavid (daavid), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:33 (nineteen years ago) link

Huh. Corgan in a very quiet mood, perhaps.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:36 (nineteen years ago) link

gish came out in the us in may 91, loveless in november. so how could loveless have influenced the smashing pumpkins debut (their most mbv-like album)? which is the only pumpkins album to keep, imho (mellon collie has its moments but is way too long). and which i found as impressive as loveless when it came out. probably even more mesmerising on headphones.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 04:24 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, MBV certainly had similar records prior to 'Loveless' of course. I actually played the 'Soon' video for my ex-gf (who had never heard MBV) and she said "interesting, I hope you don't mind me saying that it sounds like Garbage."

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 06:51 (nineteen years ago) link

*rimshot*

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 06:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, Garbage have acknowledged the debt as well.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 07:01 (nineteen years ago) link

Not as good as Isn't Anything. Which wasn't as good (as GREAT) as the '88 EP on Mercury.

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 08:01 (nineteen years ago) link

I have a feeling "Isn't Anything"'s time is coming

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 08:07 (nineteen years ago) link

I've had "Loveless" since 1992. It's been one of my favorite CDs since I got it. I just got Isn't Anything a few months ago. I doubt I'll ever be into it like I am into Loveless, but I'll try. Still haven't heard any of the EPs.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 08:20 (nineteen years ago) link

i love loveless

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 09:25 (nineteen years ago) link

I think it's tuneless fuzzy shoegazer shit.

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 09:28 (nineteen years ago) link

your mommy didn't give you enough attention:-P

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 09:30 (nineteen years ago) link

GOTCHA!

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 09:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Skipping 168 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

m b v is the best thing they've ever done. I want to believe the next one will top it.

― pomenitul, Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:54 (six years ago) link

When it comes to technical stuff Kevin has this way of saying things that sound like they might be bs but are actually entirely the case.

Obviously this principal does not necessarily apply to release schedules.

― Noel Emits, Thursday, 9 November 2017 15:56 (six years ago) link

Though you could have made this new vinyl version a 2xLP set, putting less information on each side and improving the overall quality, you decided to do a single disc. Why?
I wanted it to actually be played the way it was originally conceived, which is basically an A and B side: Loveless is like a mirror image of itself on each side. It works as a continuous thing. That’s where I got a little nuts, but it was one of the things that I got right (initially). The obvious thing to do in this day and age would be to cut it onto two vinyls. That’s something I will do someday, just for the pure sound quality. But from the perspective of listening to it, I didn’t want that to be the only version that people had access to, because it just breaks it up. There are compromises.

very cool

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 9 November 2017 16:17 (six years ago) link

three years pass...

https://d1rgjmn2wmqeif.cloudfront.net/r/l/254190-1.png

― Mark G, Thursday, 4 November 2021 09:09 (two years ago) link

The official Shirt.

£144

― Mark G, Thursday, 4 November 2021 09:11 (two years ago) link

Made without love

― Evan, Thursday, 4 November 2021 10:04 (two years ago) link

I'd buy that

― joni mitchell jarre (anagram), Thursday, 4 November 2021 10:14 (two years ago) link

Got a notification that my records had "shipped" but it was only the label being created and it's not at the post office yet, been like a week

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 4 November 2021 12:19 (two years ago) link

Same here!! I keep checking tracking and USPS is still waiting for it (label created and that's it).

― Evan, Thursday, 4 November 2021 14:23 (two years ago) link

Shipping Label Created, USPS Awaiting Item
October 25, 2021 at 8:29 pm
YPSILANTI, MI 48198

― Evan, Thursday, 4 November 2021 14:24 (two years ago) link

2 weeks

― Evan, Thursday, 4 November 2021 14:25 (two years ago) link

aw bummer, i got my deluxe loveless last week

― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 4 November 2021 14:49 (two years ago) link

xpost - well i guess it's somewhat comforting that it's not just me but seriously they've had my money for a long time now it's annoying

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 4 November 2021 15:37 (two years ago) link

30 years of Loveless. i still can't help but wonder how big MBV could have gotten if someone (such as myself) had delivered them a "radio ready" mix and master

are you ready to take your career to the next level and want your mixes to stand up today's pop hits? contact me today pic.twitter.com/aAmMQonJq1
— collin (@spiketvviewer) November 4, 2021

― Chewshabadoo, Friday, 5 November 2021 20:34 (two years ago) link

"margaritaville millennial"

sure thing, jerkass.

― the beginning of the end of discourse. (Austin), Friday, 5 November 2021 21:11 (two years ago) link

Uncertain as to whether that's very well pitched niche satire or... well, lols either way.

― Noel Emits, Friday, 5 November 2021 21:16 (two years ago) link

loveless (magaritaville remaster)

― the beginning of the end of discourse. (Austin), Friday, 5 November 2021 21:29 (two years ago) link

kevin shields:

"collin never had any hand in mastering the album. i remember him making margaritas at some point, and he had these weird ideas about making the album radio friendly, whatever that was supposed to mean, so we completely ignored him, other than the margaritas, which were also not very good".

― scanner darkly, Friday, 5 November 2021 23:12 (two years ago) link

Going to guess some kevin shields bass would knock that stupid stuff off the top of his eoeakers

― Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Saturday, 6 November 2021 01:06 (two years ago) link

Speakers, argh

― Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Saturday, 6 November 2021 01:06 (two years ago) link

Margueritas not included.... Oh wait! (on the right)

― Mark G, Saturday, 6 November 2021 10:27 (two years ago) link

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