― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 3 May 2004 16:19 (nineteen years ago) link
agreed it was pretty dumb(/smart) to do this bit when gammons wasn't on, ie when it was impossible to have any kind of actual DEBATE about what is obviously an increasingly important subject.
― John (jdahlem), Monday, 3 May 2004 16:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― earlnash, Monday, 3 May 2004 16:29 (nineteen years ago) link
It's just sad to me that the most-seen "baseball show" of the week is staffed by a bunch of dumb jocks who pull their assertions out of their asses.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 3 May 2004 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link
I almost went postal on them after some talk about players' tendencies to get hurt and their incogruous training / weight lifting regiments, and comments were made re: "Babe Ruth never pulled a hamstring" and blah blah blah but A) Gammons was there holding it down (saying that the best thing for ballplayers to do to prepare for playing ball is to play ball as much as possible) and B) Krukster & HR were 2nding that (to an extent, tho I think they were still wrong) (because I'm like that).
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 3 May 2004 16:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 3 May 2004 17:27 (nineteen years ago) link
i was hoping doc would be a bit less...abrupt. anyway, _i_ thought he's being all huffy because the saber community has spent a lot of time and energy to get these ideas into a public forum, and just as they're finally being embraced by the mainstream, perhaps the single greatest channel through which to convey these ideas is busy confusing them with postal services. i'm more amused than angry about it, but i can certainly see how it could be maddening, especially if you've been deeply involved with the stuff for a long time, as (i think?) doc has.
― John (jdahlem), Monday, 3 May 2004 17:46 (nineteen years ago) link
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 3 May 2004 17:47 (nineteen years ago) link
JD, it's not just ESPN... most mainstream pubs I read for any baseball content have regularly featured snide asides about Beane, Moneyball, SABR, etc -- Selena Roberts in the NY Times, a dick named Jon Heyman in Newsday, lots more. It's classic "don't confuse me with evidence" shit, always caricaturing or totally misrepresenting the New Thinking.
Excellent BP (non-premium) article on The Backlash:
http://www.baseball-analysis.com/article.php?articleid=2740
And you're right, Milo; if we are just taking this silly MLB shit seriously (even for fun)... it IS HOLY WAR! Mount up, and ride toward the sound of the guns!!!
David R, I can even understand having Kruk speak on certain players' perspective stuff... he was actually funny last week on getting abused for forgetting the number of outs. ("They notice in Philly. In Seattle, they're too busy drinkin' champagne and eatin' caviar.") But having these guys bloviate on the nuts and bolts of run production shows why they were paid to play, and others were paid to think.... As a guy on the Rob Neyer board posted today, getting on base is almost always a good thing.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Monday, 3 May 2004 18:54 (nineteen years ago) link
See the article linked above: "We're back in the schoolyard."
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 3 May 2004 19:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― j.q. higgins, Monday, 3 May 2004 20:55 (nineteen years ago) link
Dave Campbell brought this up during the Red Sox-Rangers radio broadcast last night. The stats he quoted showed that when a leadoff batter reaches 1st base, his chances of scoring are 40%. When he reaches on a walk: 40%. When he reaches on an error: 43%.
― boldbury (boldbury), Monday, 3 May 2004 21:01 (nineteen years ago) link
Ted Williams had a .482 LIFETIME on-base pct, but I guess to H. Reynolds he'd just be "clogging up the bases."
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 14:10 (nineteen years ago) link
This line out of the article on MSN about last nights RedSox/Indians game jumped out at me and made me think of this thread.
― earlnash, Tuesday, 4 May 2004 15:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― j.q. higgins, Tuesday, 4 May 2004 15:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― otto midnight (otto midnight), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 16:01 (nineteen years ago) link
Off-topic: HR's suits are swank.
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 16:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 16:38 (nineteen years ago) link
Who would you rather pitch to?
― boldbury (boldbury), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 16:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 17:03 (nineteen years ago) link
http://tinyurl.com/2e64r
Flat Earth things that you build teams around: chemistry, "productive outs," 5-tool players (like Billy Beane)...
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 14:02 (nineteen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 14:21 (nineteen years ago) link
It's NOT MAKING OUTS that's the key skill.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 15:04 (nineteen years ago) link
I find it awfully silly for Elias to bother w/ concocting this Productive Outs stuff w/out associating it with the thing that maatters in moving runners over, i.e. whether the guy actually scores! Of the 3 criteria used to define a Productive Out:
1) a baserunner advancing with the first out of an inning2) a pitcher sacrificing with one out3) a baserunner driven home with the second out of an inning
only the third has anything to do w/ productivity - lord knows how many times I've seen someone bunted over to second just to watch him dawdle around 2nd for the rest of the inning as hitters flail away. If there's a way to track whether #1 and #2 lead to scoring, THEN there'd be something for Elias & HR & the YES posse to crow about. Who gives a fig if Jay Bell was a great bunter or can ground out to the right side with alarming regularity? A sac bunt's only worth a damn if Van Slyke or Bonilla drives the guy in.
Also - why the hell are Yankee announcers bitching about moneyball tactics when it's the philosophy the Yankees used to dominate the past decade?!?!
― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 16:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 17:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― earlnash, Wednesday, 5 May 2004 19:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― mattbot (mattbot), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 13:50 (seventeen years ago) link
― barefoot manthing (Garrett Martin), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:29 (seventeen years ago) link
ie, making Neifi Perez sound like Tejada.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 14:32 (seventeen years ago) link
I actually used to really enjoy his work in the earliest years of his tenure, back before the stat culture wars started.
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 15:14 (seventeen years ago) link
I read Kaufman's summary on Salon and was just flabbergasted.
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 15:32 (seventeen years ago) link
― Jimmy Mod: THE HANDLESS ORGANIST (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 15:51 (seventeen years ago) link
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2528809
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 15:53 (seventeen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 16:04 (seventeen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 18:30 (seventeen years ago) link
Kaufman and I both came up with VOR re Kruk, hence KK is a genius.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 18:41 (seventeen years ago) link
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 18:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― jergins (jergins), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 19:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 19:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 19:21 (seventeen years ago) link
lol@them!
― BUTT LIKE A HOLE, BLACK AS UR SOUL (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 23:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― BUTT LIKE A HOLE, BLACK AS UR SOUL (Adrian Langston), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 00:11 (seventeen years ago) link
RIP
― Stormy Davis (diamond), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 04:46 (seventeen years ago) link
Well, HR's butterknife insight is made for ppl who don't care about baseball.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 12:13 (seventeen years ago) link
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Wf1Vg9YwBqA
― BUTT LIKE A HOLE, BLACK AS UR SOUL (Adrian Langston), Wednesday, 26 July 2006 20:42 (seventeen years ago) link
Kruk's Oliver Hardy take at the mention of "WHIP" and "advanced metrics" last night was priceless.
― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 11 September 2007 15:33 (sixteen years ago) link
I wonder if Steve Philips will answer my chat question?
― Dr Morbius, Monday, 17 September 2007 16:15 (sixteen years ago) link
Read that URL as saying he did an impression of Divine
― Godzilla vs. Rodan Rodannadanna (The Yellow Kid), Friday, 2 March 2012 05:40 (twelve years ago) link
a sidebar on jon lester tonight caused kruk to ramble at great length about baseball and cancer, including the fact that getting those (cancer-afflicted) kids on the field to meet some players would be better than any possible treatment
i know that's not what he meant, but he is about as incoherent an analyst as i've ever heard
― mookieproof, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:11 (ten years ago) link
The return of Nate?!?
http://www.mediaite.com/online/brian-stelter-reports-nate-silver-leaving-new-york-times-to-join-keith-olbermann-at-espn/
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 20 July 2013 01:58 (ten years ago) link
he is about as incoherent an analyst as i've ever heard
― mookieproof, Monday, 28 April 2014 02:06 (nine years ago) link
look for his new book I Ain't an Analyst, Lady
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Monday, 28 April 2014 02:30 (nine years ago) link
only saw the bottom of the ninth, but espn's use of nine (or whatever) commentators apparently only meant that each had only a moment to force his chosen cliches into the mix no matter what was going on in the game
― mookieproof, Monday, 2 June 2014 03:38 (nine years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNRD62vUsAAzIfW.png
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 25 August 2015 16:09 (eight years ago) link
every time i think he can't get any goddamn worse
― slothroprhymes, Tuesday, 25 August 2015 16:13 (eight years ago) link
o man
― johnny crunch, Tuesday, 25 August 2015 16:25 (eight years ago) link
"It's said"
"true #'s"
― Andy K, Tuesday, 25 August 2015 17:37 (eight years ago) link
@jazayerliHey @gehrig38, I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about Muslims, given that you appear grossly ignorant.
― Andy K, Tuesday, 25 August 2015 17:41 (eight years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNRfWYcUwAAX46b.png
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 25 August 2015 18:25 (eight years ago) link
in a bold move by espn, schilling has been suspended . . . from little league ws coverage
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 25 August 2015 19:12 (eight years ago) link
I do agree with him that we should've murdered every German regardless of their beliefs.
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 25 August 2015 22:26 (eight years ago) link
this guy
http://awfulannouncing.com/2015/curt-schilling-is-now-sending-e-mails-to-writers-to-question-our-integrity.html
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 1 September 2015 19:09 (eight years ago) link
kruk/schilling out, jessica mendoza/aaron 'fucking' boone in on sunday nights
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 15:53 (eight years ago) link
Aaron Boone is appearing at the SABR Analytics conference, for some reason
― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 17:42 (eight years ago) link
schilling fired
@JonHeymanschilling is unique. i used to get letters from a relative of his about how he'd routinely ruin thanksgiving #notkidding
― mookieproof, Thursday, 21 April 2016 00:35 (seven years ago) link
im so pumped right now
https://media.giphy.com/media/FVNoYaJTVY0Ja/giphy.gif
― pandit pran nathalie (sanskrit), Thursday, 21 April 2016 01:01 (seven years ago) link
NYTimes with some great shade:
“This latest brew ha ha is beyond hilarious,” he wrote of the brouhaha.
― pandit pran nathalie (sanskrit), Thursday, 21 April 2016 13:38 (seven years ago) link
This got me a chuckle.
"Curt Schilling Quietly Relieved He No Longer Needs To Censor Self For 3 Hours Once A Week"
http://www.theonion.com/article/curt-schilling-quietly-relieved-he-no-longer-needs-52790
― earlnash, Friday, 22 April 2016 19:53 (seven years ago) link
https://twitter.com/PFTCommenter/status/725063488977166337
― Andy K, Thursday, 28 April 2016 16:44 (seven years ago) link
good canadian kid dan shulman will not do sunday night baseball next year
unfortunate, imo
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 5 July 2017 15:34 (six years ago) link
alex rodriguez . . . welcome
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 15:04 (six years ago) link
now with matt vasgergian
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 17:38 (six years ago) link
Why?
― Andy K, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 17:39 (six years ago) link
As noted by @WayTooCrisp, this is A-Rod saying one of the dumbest things ever stated by a baseball analyst—and it's on the marquee national baseball broadcast pic.twitter.com/b7dKQU9NZX— Timothy Burke (@bubbaprog) September 2, 2019
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 2 September 2019 23:51 (four years ago) link
LOL
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 3 September 2019 00:21 (four years ago) link
i'm not sure even Harold Reynolds could've come up with that
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 3 September 2019 11:13 (four years ago) link
Hate to lead by 13
― ilxors are still exuberant (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 3 September 2019 16:51 (four years ago) link
Drew Magary's profile of Stephen A Smith is really good
https://www.gq.com/story/stephen-a-smith-espn-profile
I reached out to Lamar Odom’s people for this story but did not get a response. I also ask Bomani Jones if the joke—which was definitely funny—was fair to Odom. “I could make the argument that if I were Lamar Odom, it is not something that I would want to hear,” says Jones. “But it is not unfair to Lamar Odom as it appears that he was, in fact, on crack.”
― frogbs, Wednesday, 11 December 2019 20:50 (four years ago) link
mendoza (likely) out on sunday night
https://nypost.com/2020/01/27/espn-moving-jessica-mendoza-out-of-sunday-night-booth-with-more-changes-possible
they should dump a-rod too, but it doesn't sound like that will happen. cone would be good
― mookieproof, Monday, 27 January 2020 22:29 (four years ago) link
Sciambi and Mendoza were great on radio last October, that'd be ideal
but i don't watch SNB
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 January 2020 22:44 (four years ago) link
Jessica Mendoza has resigned as a Met advisor and will no longer be on Sunday Night Baseball. She will remain on ESPN, doing weekday games, among other things.— Andrew Marchand (@AndrewMarchand) February 7, 2020
― Andy K, Friday, 7 February 2020 18:59 (four years ago) link
Five-time World Series champion and Cy Young Award winner David Cone is joining the announcing booth for ESPN's Sunday Night Baseball, which will also feature a secondary broadcast led by Alex Rodriguez, the network announced Friday.Cone will serve as an analyst alongside Karl Ravech, who will become the fourth-ever play-by-play announcer for Sunday Night Baseball. Eduardo Perez will also serve as an analyst for the ESPN broadcasts.For eight games on ESPN2, Rodriguez will join veteran commentator Michael Kay for Sunday Night Baseball with Kay-Rod -- a broadcast similar to the ManningCasts that featured former quarterbacks Peyton and Eli Manning during Monday Night Football this season. The show will feature special guests as well as fantasy baseball and predictive elements.Rodriguez and Kay will also serve as the primary broadcast team for two games during the 2022 season.
Cone will serve as an analyst alongside Karl Ravech, who will become the fourth-ever play-by-play announcer for Sunday Night Baseball. Eduardo Perez will also serve as an analyst for the ESPN broadcasts.
For eight games on ESPN2, Rodriguez will join veteran commentator Michael Kay for Sunday Night Baseball with Kay-Rod -- a broadcast similar to the ManningCasts that featured former quarterbacks Peyton and Eli Manning during Monday Night Football this season. The show will feature special guests as well as fantasy baseball and predictive elements.
Rodriguez and Kay will also serve as the primary broadcast team for two games during the 2022 season.
― Andy K, Tuesday, 11 January 2022 02:10 (two years ago) link
one of the classic Morbs thread titles
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 11 January 2022 02:16 (two years ago) link
hah otm.
that's an incredible press release btw, we are recreating the manningcast with two of the most disliked people in baseball and just wanted to let everyone know
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 11 January 2022 02:25 (two years ago) link
which manning is kay supposed to be, the former sports star or the other former sports star
― ✖, Tuesday, 11 January 2022 02:34 (two years ago) link
that's not a "manningcast" it's just a pbp/color commentary booth
― ✖, Tuesday, 11 January 2022 02:35 (two years ago) link
i have no idea how this is supposed to work but cone is Good
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 11 January 2022 03:28 (two years ago) link
I think we can all agree that Ravech and Cone (or any other combination of verbal lifeforms) is an improvement over Vasgersian and A-Rod.
― Andy K, Tuesday, 11 January 2022 17:29 (two years ago) link
i still don't know how kay is allowed to speak in public he has a horrible voice
― Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 11 January 2022 18:12 (two years ago) link
Thoughts on ESPN's top 100 players of all time list? No real surprises in the top ten, but it's cool to see so many recent players (80's, 90's 00's) in the top 25.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Thursday, 3 February 2022 18:03 (two years ago) link
Didn't know about it till your post. The full list:
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33145121/top-100-mlb-players-all
Not sure how much overlap with Posnanski's list...I like Mays at #1 better, though.
― clemenza, Thursday, 3 February 2022 18:54 (two years ago) link
NTBT you cut ESPN a lot more slack than everyone else on the internet - i've seen nothing but complaints about recency bias and typical papi/jeets/mo worship
i sort of mentally threw out the list when ripken was ranked below ortiz and reduced to 2131 and "consistency" - i'm not a hardcore ripken fan (don't even really like the guy!) but it told me what i needed to know about the list
― ✖, Friday, 4 February 2022 00:10 (two years ago) link
The one active player that seems like a stretch to me is Harper. Three or four more solid years, maybe, probably. But you still don't know what you'll get next year.
― clemenza, Friday, 4 February 2022 02:03 (two years ago) link
I haven't read the whole list yet. But I don't have a problem with recency bias. Baseball tends to exaggerate its history, and a newcomer gets the impression that the best games and players were around 50 or 100 years ago. I have no problem with people claiming that Mays or Aaron were the best ever -- but their primes were over 60 years ago. Compare that with the NBA or NFL, where there's more of a sense that today's players are the best there's ever been.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Friday, 4 February 2022 14:57 (two years ago) link
What I'm saying is that baseball's anti-recency bias is one reason for its image problem compared with other major sports and helps explain why its fanbase skews older.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Friday, 4 February 2022 15:00 (two years ago) link